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[Spoilers] This is a perfect time for a traditional progression system & ETC for the


EmptyDevil
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Operators

In this thread, i'm going to be detailing and suggesting an idea for a Operator Progression System, since the Operator is playable after completing The War Within. Assuming DE hasn't already planned to do this.

What is a Traditional Progression System?

A Traditional Progression System is a system in which you typically grow your character's stats through leveling up. You may have seen several versions of how it's done in various games. Some games automatically boost the player's stats upon leveling, some grant points for you to allocate to various stats, some do both of the former, and ETC. The end goal is the same, to strengthen your character through extended use.

 

Why should we have one/How would this help us?

- It would add another long-term goal to the game. Arguably the longest.

- It would add a rewarding sense of strengthening your character.

- This would add even more depth to the game as a whole.

- This would help the Operator survive just a little bit longer, without trivializing the Warframe.

- It would provide a foundation for more Operator-centric content, should DE choose to pursue it.

 

Why not use the Focus System as a progression system instead/Focus System is the progression system for Operators?

The Focus System is not a Traditional Progression System and it is not suitable to serve as one. It does however, have the potential to make a great addition to a Traditional Progression System by acting as a Skill-Tree Progression System for Operator powers.

 

Things to improve Operator gameplay in general

Before i go into deep detail on progression, i will list some things that would enhance Operator gameplay both visually + mechanically and make it feel much less clunky.

- Operators should be able to use basic evasive rolling, they are very squishy in comparison to Warframes and have a smaller power capacity. This is fair for when you need to recharge energy and/or avoid danger. Retreating to or being force back to the Warframe every second is not conducive to a fun session.

- Operators need an in-combat stance/pose/idle for missions because their standing straight looks too casual and out of place in a dangerous setting.

Some examples of stances/poses/idles that could work for combat, if they had the Warframe 'flair' removed from the animation:

Spoiler

Ash Agile

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Ember Agile

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Excalibur Agile

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Excalibur Noble

ClnFIUM.png

 

Nyx Agile

ju9Zzxn.png

 

Trinity Agile

2GgsUUQ.png

 

 

- Operators should be able to use their Warframe's non-heavy melee weapons or their fists(looks deep into DE's eyes about unarmed combat still not being a thing), if a melee weapon isn't equipped. I will go into more detail on this one below:

Operators and Weaponry

First, i'd like to say there is virtually no valid reason for the Operator to not be to use their own weapons. The Operator being the pilots of the Warframes, are badass combatants themselves, so they should be able to utilize some of the weapons without the Warframe's enhanced agility and strength.

- Equipping the melee weapon would be done by using the "Switch Weapon" Key Binding. Equipping the melee weapon will prevent the Operator from using the Void Beam and Void Blast. This will allow them to block, channel, and use melee attacks.

For this idea i came to the conclusion that melees are the best candidate for weapons they can use, with restrictions. This is because some Primary and Secondary weapons would completely trivialize the Operator's powers. Melee weapons have a much shorter range and won't eclipse the CC capabilities of Void Blast or the long range of the Void Beam. Also, for the sake of things making sense, there should be some restrictions imposed on this one for specific weapons categories.

Melee Restrictions

These are melee restrictions the Operator should have:

- Operators would only be able to use the base combo and charge attack of the weapon(basically, no stances).

- No Heavy Blades

- No Hammers

- No Dark Split-sword

 

"Operator" Menu

In this menu that contains the Focus and Customize sections, another menu could be added below that contains the Operator's stats and equipment.

3t5EEgJ.png

That menu could be similar to the Warframe "Arsenal" screen, but contain the following instead:

Operator Details

This section would contain several stats of the Operator such as:

- Level

- Health

- Power

- The option 'Upgrade Operator' stats

- ETC


Operator Loadout

This selection would contain Operator-specific equipment such as:

- Weapon (with the appropriate restrictions. If the Warframe already has the weapon equipped, the Operator should take it from the Warframe upon Transference in a mission)

- Gear (containing eligible gear items for the Operator and maybe some Operator-only ones)

Example of Operator-only gear:

Weak, standard, and improved Shield Generator Gear that grants shields of varying sizes and regen rate to the Operator if equipped. Each shield generator(except the weak version) could require the previous version to use in building it.

 

Now without further ado, the...

Operator Progression System

*Values are there for demonstration of concept.

This will detail a Traditional Progression system for the Operators. I will use the 2 stats they currently have for examples. With this system a Tenno will 'level up' by accumulating the appropriate amount of XP/Affinity. Leveling up, will grant a growth point. These points are used to increase health and power capacity. The first several stat increases will require minimal points, the amount of points required will increase at the final 20.

The amount of XP/Affinity require to level up for a point is 1.35million.

The amount of growth points required for stat levels are as following:

Levels 1 ~ 20 require 1 growth point each.

Levels 21 ~ 40 require 1 growth point each.

Levels 41 ~ 60 require 1 growth point each.

Levels 61 ~ 80 require 2 growth points each.

 

Health

Base = 100

2 Health increase per level         1 ~ 20 = 40 total

2.5 Health increase per level    21 ~ 40 = 50 total

2.5 Health increase per level    41 ~ 60 = 50 total

3 Health increase per level       61 ~ 80 = 60 total

Total additional Health: 200 Health.

 

Health perk - Regeneration:

When not taking damage for 15 seconds, health regenerates at a rate of 2% of maximum health + 1 health point per sec.

Can be upgraded up to 15 times maximum to increase health points per sec. Consumes 1 growth point

Unlocked after putting 40 points into Health.

 

Energy Capacity

Base = 100(from what it seems)

1 Energy increase per level         1 ~ 20 = 20 total

1.25 Energy increase per level    21 ~ 40 = 25 total

1.25 Energy increase per level    41 ~ 60 = 25 total

1.5 Energy increase per level       61 ~ 80 = 30 total

Total additional Energy: 100 Energy.

 

Energy perk - Reserves:

Decreases the energy penalty on the Warframe, when losing all health in Operator mode by 10%.

Can be upgraded up to 15 times maximum to increase reserve % by 1  per upgrade. Consumes 1 growth point

Unlocked after putting 40 points into Energy Capacity.

 

 

 

What do you do with points after you've capped each stat and perk?

Additional points could be converted into 1% ~ 2% of their XP/Affinity value in Focus.

 

 

That is my idea/suggestion for now. I may improve and update it as necessary. Thoughts?

 

 

Edited by EmptyDevil
added more info
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I really like the ideas presented here. It gives the Operators some actual use, and gives players a reason to care about them.

BTW, imo, the entire Mastery system could also use a traditional progression system. Earn mastery from kills, scans, hacking puzzles, captures, stealth kills, headshots, sliding kills, parkour kills, multikills, etc.

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5 minutes ago, AntoineFlemming said:

I really like the ideas presented here. It gives the Operators some actual use, and gives players a reason to care about them.

BTW, imo, the entire Mastery system could also use a traditional progression system. Earn mastery from kills, scans, hacking puzzles, captures, stealth kills, headshots, sliding kills, parkour kills, multikills, etc.

Thanks.

I agree about Mastery Rank progression. However, that is separate from this since it would only really increase MR and do nothing for directly strengthening a character, in its current form.

Edited by EmptyDevil
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I like how you also implemented the idea of the operator being restricted to non heavy weapons(Fragor,gorgan,ext.)

this to me keeps to operator from being used a whole mission like that of a frame but allow him/her to stay in the fight longer and be, in a sense, more fun as well as useful.

a small shields perk would also be a neat thing for an operator ....if the heath would end around 300 ... maybe a 50 or 75 points for energy shields.

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17 minutes ago, Reptileo said:

I like how you also implemented the idea of the operator being restricted to non heavy weapons(Fragor,gorgan,ext.)

this to me keeps to operator from being used a whole mission like that of a frame but allow him/her to stay in the fight longer and be, in a sense, more fun as well as useful.

a small shields perk would also be a neat thing for an operator ....if the heath would end around 300 ... maybe a 50 or 75 points for energy shields.

Hmm, i wasn't sure how to go about shields for them. I opted for suggesting a perk that allows health to regenerate like shields instead, but slower. I've seen a few games with a delayed health regen.

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1 minute ago, EmptyDevil said:

Nope, i recommend you read the post thoroughly to better understand the suggestion.

But I am my operator, who is the one who gets the focus XP, and who uses it for abilities that are persistent regardless of frame or equipment.

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Just now, Snowbluff said:

But I am my operator, who is the one who gets the focus XP, and who uses it for abilities that are persistent regardless of frame or equipment.

The post has the answers to the questions you're asking. This is not about the Focus system.

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Just now, EmptyDevil said:

The post has the answers to the questions you're asking. This is not about the Focus system.

But my operator shouldn't have to walk out of the frame to benefit, and we already have a system that creates a long term goal, which fulfills the onus of such a system.

Also, under my system my operator can't use Dark Split Sword. That's just not okay.

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33 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

But my operator shouldn't have to walk out of the frame to benefit, and we already have a system that creates a long term goal, which fulfills the onus of such a system.

Also, under my system my operator can't use Dark Split Sword. That's just not okay.

So what i'm understanding is, you don't like using the Operator and want the stats + all of this applied directly to the Warframe? Sorry, this isn't going to be a buff-Warframes-more-thread. This is strictly about improving the Operators when they are not inside a Warframe. Focus does not do that and it does not fulfill the purpose that this would. They are 2 different things.

You may make your own thread regarding Focus elsewhere, this is not the place for it.

Edited by EmptyDevil
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12 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

So what i'm understanding is, you don't like using the Operator and want the stats + all of this applied directly to the Warframe? Sorry, this isn't going to be a buff-Warframes-more-thread. This is strictly about improving the Operators when they are not inside a Warframe. Focus does not do that and it does not fulfill the purpose that this would. They are 2 different things.

You may make your own thread regarding Focus elsewhere, this is not the place for it.

I'm saying your premise is fundamentally flawed. By your own definition the focus system is a "traditional progression system," as it "grows your stats as you level up." Ergo this whole system's purpose is already accomplished.

also it's really weird that warframe's overallprogression would be about warframes.

Edited by Snowbluff
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6 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

I'm saying your premise is fundamentally flawed. By your own definition the focus system is a "traditional progression system," as it "grows your stats as you level up." Ergo this whole system's purpose is already accomplished.

Focus does not grow your stats at all. It does nothing for the Operator's base stats or the Warframe's base stats, therefore you are wrong. The Focus System only gives you new powers.

Now do you have anything to add that is relevant to the topic at hand, since this is not about the Focus System?

Edited by EmptyDevil
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2 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

Focus does not grow your stats at all. It does nothing for the Operator's base stats or the Warframe's base stats, therefore you are wrong.

Now do you have anything to add that is relevant to the topic at hand, since this is not about the Focus System?

My energy regeneration, crit melee, armor and many other stats agree. And I'm gaining new abilities as I level focus as well.

focus fulfills the first 3 "why we should have this goals as well."

Edited by Snowbluff
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The Operator could always use the Void to pick up heavier weapons. My big issue with the Operators currently is that they are so weak that they aren't viable. I think they need to be survivable more than anything, and with low health, they can't survive. Beyond that, there needs to be a point to using the Operators. I'm not sure what that reason should be right now.

Maybe the Operator shouldn't just be something that we can always activate. Maybe the Operator should be used kinda like the current Focus system, where it sorta fills up over time and then we can activate it for a set duration (I'm thinking like a minute or so, instead of a few seconds). Maybe doing certain things like headshots, slide kills, parkour kills, stealth kills and finishers, etc, could build up that focus meter faster. Something like this would make using the Operator like a sort of rage mode from The Force Unleashed II, or like the revenge mode in Ubisoft's upcoming For Honor. And then, maybe in addition to the innate Operator void powers, once that meter is filled up, we can also use heightened or unleashed versions of the warframe abilities via the Warframes. So, once we activate this unleashed mode, we can either use our warframe abilities, which are enhanced, or we can jump out as our Operators and have devastatingly-powerful Void abilities. And maybe this could be our way of dealing with extremely high-level enemies, or maybe even special minibosses. But, regardless of offering a progression system for Operators, there has to be an actual purpose for the Operators. Right now, there really isn't a good enough reason to use them. Right now, it's just necessary for the Kuva Guardians and that's it, and honestly, there isn't even a logical reason for why we need to use our Operators to fight them. They're just fat bodyguards with pole-arms.

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1 hour ago, AntoineFlemming said:

The Operator could always use the Void to pick up heavier weapons. My big issue with the Operators currently is that they are so weak that they aren't viable. I think they need to be survivable more than anything, and with low health, they can't survive. Beyond that, there needs to be a point to using the Operators. I'm not sure what that reason should be right now.

Maybe the Operator shouldn't just be something that we can always activate. Maybe the Operator should be used kinda like the current Focus system, where it sorta fills up over time and then we can activate it for a set duration (I'm thinking like a minute or so, instead of a few seconds). Maybe doing certain things like headshots, slide kills, parkour kills, stealth kills and finishers, etc, could build up that focus meter faster. Something like this would make using the Operator like a sort of rage mode from The Force Unleashed II, or like the revenge mode in Ubisoft's upcoming For Honor. And then, maybe in addition to the innate Operator void powers, once that meter is filled up, we can also use heightened or unleashed versions of the warframe abilities via the Warframes. So, once we activate this unleashed mode, we can either use our warframe abilities, which are enhanced, or we can jump out as our Operators and have devastatingly-powerful Void abilities. And maybe this could be our way of dealing with extremely high-level enemies, or maybe even special minibosses. But, regardless of offering a progression system for Operators, there has to be an actual purpose for the Operators. Right now, there really isn't a good enough reason to use them. Right now, it's just necessary for the Kuva Guardians and that's it, and honestly, there isn't even a logical reason for why we need to use our Operators to fight them. They're just fat bodyguards with pole-arms.

Picking up heavy weapons with the Void could work, but i feel like it would steal too much light from the Warframes. I originally thought that DE could add a 'strength' stat and allow that to determine what you can equip, like Dark Souls.

I agree that they definitely need a way to scale because they are too weak. They definitely need the ability to perform an evasive roll as well.

As for uses, they are pretty niche at the moment. So far, they are only really needed for Kuva farming, but they have other neat things they can perform. Their powers can reset Sentient damage resistances, they can destroy certain tile set hazards, and they can stealth pretty well. In the future, i know they will be needed to beat Exo-suit Sentients.

I like the ability to control my Operator at will, as opposed to the brief appearance before the update. Adds a bit more flavor to the game. We really need to be able to improve their stats, use evasive maneuvers, and to have a melee weapon as a back up IMO. Different actions speeding up the Focus power would be pretty cool though.

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No.  Vertical progression is terrible.

Warframe is not a stupid theme park MMO that is cleanly segmented for leveling progression.

Powercreep is already getting out of control.  Don't add more power creep.

Look at games like Overwatch.  They don't have power creep. It's pure horizontal progression and challenging player's SKILL than their money/time.

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1 minute ago, ssh83 said:

No.  Vertical progression is terrible.

Warframe is not a stupid theme park MMO that is cleanly segmented for leveling progression.

Powercreep is already getting out of control.  Don't add more power creep.

Look at games like Overwatch.  They don't have power creep. It's pure horizontal progression and challenging player's SKILL than their money/time.

I don't see how this is power creep, i hope you didn't skim and read everything carefully + understood it. You're entitled to your opinion either way.

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1 minute ago, Very_Melon said:

No. There is enough existing systems in the game that need SERIOUS work that we don't need to add yet another one to be left to rot after receiving a patch or two, like every other.

When was focus added to the game?

Not a valid reason to leave the new Operator system to rot. You should read this in depth to see that this is a one and done thing. It would not need extensive balancing or tweaks because it would be a baseline leveling system across all Operators. It does not have multiple variations or special effects, that require "serious work" on it.

Imagine a hypothetical scenario in which every Warframe had the same stats and there was no leveling, then someone made a suggestion to add a leveling system to increase their stats for survivability. Then a guy complains and says it shouldn't happen because Profile Mastery Rank(example for sake of the scenario) needs serious work, completely ignoring the fact that the 2 systems are stark different from each other. One system being more simple to approach+test, while the other would require much more work and thought before it's tackled. That is essentially what you're doing, no offense.

Focus was added last year December, IIRC. Also, fear not because Steve recently confirmed Focus is getting new love on Twitter, so it is not left to rot.

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11 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

Not a valid reason to leave the new Operator system to rot. You should read this in depth to see that this is a one and done thing. It would not need extensive balancing or tweaks because it would be a baseline leveling system across all Operators. It does not have multiple variations or special effects, that require "serious work" on it.

Imagine a hypothetical scenario in which every Warframe had the same stats and there was no leveling, then someone made a suggestion to add a leveling system to increase their stats for survivability. Then a guy complains and says it shouldn't happen because Profile Mastery Rank(example for sake of the scenario) needs serious work, completely ignoring the fact that the 2 systems are stark different from each other. One system being more simple to approach+test, while the other would require much more work and thought before it's tackled. That is essentially what you're doing, no offense.

Focus was added last year December, IIRC. Also, fear not because Steve recently confirmed Focus is getting new love on Twitter, so it is not left to rot.

So they might actually do something with focus after A YEAR. Wow. Such updates. Almost as good as Archwing.

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10 hours ago, Pckool12 said:

Hope DE Reads this post. Some really cool ideas in here!

Thanks.

2 hours ago, Very_Melon said:

So they might actually do something with focus after A YEAR. Wow. Such updates. Almost as good as Archwing.

Pretty exciting, isn't it? Can't wait to see it affect Operator mode abilities.

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3 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

Thanks.

Pretty exciting, isn't it? Can't wait to see it affect Operator mode abilities.

 

I actually made a video on My thoughts on the whole operator system. I think you capture alot of what I was looking for as well. but I was thinking for of merging the previous focus system with this new operator system.

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