Herp a Derp

[Iccotak]

herp a derp

Edited November 20, 2016 by Iccotak

[SaurusRex]

28 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

The problem is that the funding they receiver is barely enough...  they do not have enough money

So are you their accountant?  Have you been perusing their financial documentation? Or are you just assuming it's true because... reasons?

[Iccotak]

2 minutes ago, SaurusRex said:

So are you their accountant?  Have you been perusing their financial documentation? Or are you just assuming it's true because... reasons?

Observation, they have been in development for the past 4 years with major changes but nothing close to a full game. The War Within was the focus of the entire staff for nearly a year and they were still scrambling to get it out on November 11.

They are still a relatively small staff and cannot afford extra man power, as they have insinuated multiple times. Like I said previously - they still have to pay for; employees, equipment, a working office building, insurance, rent, legal fees, etc which takes time. Development is taking longer for them because they lack manpower which they lack because of money.

[OniDax]

I don't know about DE's inner workings, but if a publisher will help move the game towards being completed (as in, release-ready, not stuck in alpha/beta), then I'm all for it.

 

That said, isn't Leyou their publisher now, or do they just publish the game in China?

[Ailissa]

I'm pretty sure they know their business a hell of a lot better than you do.

 

I'm sure they will do what is best for them as a company rather than anything a random joe on the forums says.

 

Quote

The main deal though is that Digital Extremes must be free to make their vision and have no interference from the publishers.

 

You clearly have no idea how publisher operate. 

 

No developer has full control when under a publisher. A publishers ONLY job is to get back investments and keep their shareholders happy which means strict deadlines and pushing developers in a direction they want them to go to maximise profits.

 

You may think it would be an influx of cash but it would end up just another free to play cash grab game.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Ailissa

[.corvon.]

[Demogarose]

14 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

You clearly have no idea how publisher operate. 

 

No developer has full control when under a publisher. A publishers ONLY job is to get back investments and keep their shareholders happy which means strict deadlines and pushing developers in a direction they want them to go to maximise profits.

 

You may think it would be an influx of cash but it would end up just another free to play cash grab game.

10000000000000000x this.

Publishers ONLY care about their bottom line and ROI. 

[Abenoki]

Lol publishers are literally the biggest evil in the industry right now. They'll work you too death and kick the corpse asking for more,  last time DE tried to do Warframe with a publisher we got Dark Sector....so no

 

Bottom line is a publishers only concern

Edited November 16, 2016 by Echoa

[Iccotak]

 

I understand where everyone is coming from and I would like to point out that I do not intend to act all knowing about company affairs, I am simply concerned about the future of the game because it is one of my favorites and I don't want to see it disappear when it can become so much more.

2 hours ago, Ailissa said:

You clearly have no idea how publisher operate.

I am fully aware of how they operate. Otherwise I would not have included the bit about no interference. Warframe has a strong community backing it and I would hope that if a publisher were to back Digital Extremes that the community make it clear that they want the company to be free to make the game they want.

2 hours ago, Echoa said:

last time DE tried to do Warframe with a publisher we got Dark Sector....so no

Keep in mind that Dark Sector came out in 2008 when the WWII genre was very popular hence why DE was forced to make the game that way. But I get what you mean.

 

2 hours ago, Demogarose said:

Publishers ONLY care about their bottom line and ROI. 

As cold as that might be that is how our economy works. While that mode of thinking has hurt many games it also produced great ones such as Halo and Mass Effect 2. At the end of the day, no matter how beautiful and cool as this game is, you need a Product not a Project. Artist Jake Parker discussed this. A hold back of many projects, whether they are comics, video games, or movies, is that people do not finish what they started. This can happen because people don't have a specific goal and/or they don't have a specific plan for the project. 

2 hours ago, TheMetrocop said:

My Main concern is that this game will be stuck in development Hell. I go on steam or youtube and I find people; who share the love for the game that we do, have played for thousands of hours, as well as contributed money to the project, and at the end of the day quit. They are tired of repetition and feel that because DE is stuck having to constantly release new content, in order to keep people interested, that they are limited. I have been playing for three years now, and I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to be playing five years down the line and the game is still not finished. 
I understand where people are coming from concerning this topic and definitely agree with many of your points. But the simple truth is that DE needs more funding if they are going to be able to release greater amounts of content in the future. I encourage the millions of players to donate money to the game when possible. 

It's great if you have been able to get everything without spending a dime but show your support. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Iccotak

[Ailissa]

3 hours ago, Iccotak said:

am fully aware of how they operate. Otherwise I would not have included the bit about no interference. Warframe has a strong community backing it and I would hope that if a publisher were to back Digital Extremes that the community make it clear that they want the company to be free to make the game they want.

 

You really don't have any idea how publishers operate if you think a community saying "no interference" would make any difference.

 

It won't.

 

We don't matter .... at all.

 

Money does.

 

They will interfere as much as they want to make that money happen. The community has no say in anything. And this, right here, is the problem with gamers. They think they matter.

 

Developers like these include you in a way you think all companies do but publishers don't do that. That isn't their job. Their job is purely to increase revenue and they will do that how they see fit.

 

If this game got a publisher it would not be a good experience for all. You won;t have a say in anything, even the design council would be gone because that won't fit a publishers view of what is best for business.

 

If DE are struggling for money as you seem to think they are then a publisher will want to change direction completely. They won't allow DE to carry on as they are if it won't increase profit. They will be expected to make more money.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Ailissa

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

I'd like to see a retail disc Collector Version, publisher or not :D

[Iccotak]

That makes sense, can't argue with you there.

30 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

If DE are struggling for money as you seem to think they

i would like to clarify that I do not think DE is "struggling" to make money. I am saying that they are currently financially limited so development is slow compared to other titles. It has slowly increased due to a steady rise in the fan community and therefore an increase in income. 

However, with the community having tasted two cinematic quests I have seen a rise in demand for more. As we have seen with War Within it took them the better part of a year to develop a cinematic quest, they are working harder now but do not expect that development time to be cut in half. 

Besides cinematic quests there are still other things that they are working on or need their attention. Prime Frames, New Frames, re-working frames, expanding and adding Tile sets, enemies, animations, new game mechanics, updating graphics, new weapons, new customization options, etc.

They have the base game to improve on, add new gameplay content to build/buy, on top of creating cinematic quests. They tried releasing War Within with all the other major updates within this year but that proved to be overwhelming and it left fans hungry. So they released them in steps. The point being that the community wants more content faster but DE needs more money in order to make that happen.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Iccotak

[Stalker_Cake]

1 hour ago, Iccotak said:

However, with the community having tasted two cinematic quests I have seen a rise in demand for more. As we have seen with War Within it took them the better part of a year to develop a cinematic quest, they are working harder now but do not expect that development time to be cut in half. 

you seem to forget that DE went through 7 versions of TWW

[Iccotak]

1 minute ago, Stalker_Cake said:

you seem to forget that DE went through 7 versions of TWW

Going through multiple versions of a script is part of the development process. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Iccotak

[Stalker_Cake]

Just now, Iccotak said:

Exactly my point

i doubt they rewrote it because of money problems. if i were to guess i a reason it would be dataminers spoling a very big lore quest

Also what Steve said on a devstream that they had creativity issues

[Iccotak]

Just now, Stalker_Cake said:

i doubt they rewrote it because of money problems

I do not know how many more times I have to say it. I did not say that DE is not in a financial crisis. I said that they are financially limited and therefore are limited on what they can spend their time working on within the day. Such as script writing, Steve is busy with many other components of the game beside the script so the story is going to take a little longer for them to work through creativity issues. Also I agree that dataminers played a part as well. 

They are not as big as Bungie or Bethesda so they lack the manpower that those companies possess and therefore development will take longer. 

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, Iccotak said:

i would like to clarify that I do not think DE is "struggling" to make money. I am saying that they are currently financially limited so development is slow compared to other titles. It has slowly increased due to a steady rise in the fan community and therefore an increase in income. 

There's one huge problem with this.  It's also why Warframe was developed the way it has.  If DE got a publisher, they would lose massive amounts of creative control.  When they first tried to make Warframe, the publishers either said no out right or said to change it.  The change it one is how Dark Sector came about.  For DE to make the game that they wanted (Warframe), they had to do it themselves without a publisher.  It's actually a few articles on the web that explain DE's history and the creation of Warframe. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correcting autocorrect

[Iccotak]

6 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

There's one huge problem with this.  It's also why Warframe was developed the way it has.  If DE got a publisher, they would lose massive amounts of creative control.  When they first tried to make Warframe, the publishers either said no out right or said to change it.  The change it one is how Dark Sector came about.  For DE to make the game that they wanted (Warframe), they had to do it themselves without a publisher.  It's actually a few articles on the web that explain DE's history and the creation of Warframe. 

This has already been discussed. Please read through the comments

[DatDarkOne]

11 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

This has already been discussed. Please read through the comments

I did read through the comments.  It's why I replied to one of them.  What I was addressing in my post was that you haven't taken into account how much this would effect creative control.  DE would lose quite a bit of creative control by having a publisher.  There's not really anyway around that except for publishing it themselves.  Which DE has done/doing now.  Creative control is very important to those doing the creating. 

[Iccotak]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I did read through the comments.  It's why I replied to one of them.  What I was addressing in my post was that you haven't taken into account how much this would effect creative control.  DE would lose quite a bit of creative control by having a publisher.  There's not really anyway around that except for publishing it themselves.  Which DE has done/doing now.  Creative control is very important to those doing the creating. 

Again that was pointed out to me already. Not trying to be antagonizing, just letting you know that point has been established

[Slaviar]

First, Warframe is not beta. They can slap it as much as they wish but beta games don't make it through Sony/MS QA. This tag only exists to make people less angry about bugs because hey, it's beta^TM.

Second, I really can't imagine Warframe as "finished" game. It's loot based F2P, you can't slap "finished" sticker and change it to P2P. Game's foundations would have to be completely rebuilt, I dare to say it would be easier to make new game

[Iccotak]

3 hours ago, Slaviar said:

First, Warframe is not beta. They can slap it as much as they wish but beta games don't make it through Sony/MS QA. This tag only exists to make people less angry about bugs because hey, it's beta^TM.

Second, I really can't imagine Warframe as "finished" game. It's loot based F2P, you can't slap "finished" sticker and change it to P2P. Game's foundations would have to be completely rebuilt, I dare to say it would be easier to make new game

So DE should never work towards a finished product? You guys are completely fine with an endless grind with not much else to do? They should simply keep generating stuff for the player to buy? We should keep getting barely an hour long story lines every once in a while? No matter how you look at it, and no matter the label, Warframe is not a complete game. Warframe was not even supposed to be a F2P game in the first place, they were forced to do that due to a lack of funding. 

They are still building the game from the ground up. They are still working on tile sets for the planets, they are still working on balancing, they are still working on gameplay mechanics, they are still adding lore, they are still working on the overall universe, and they are still working on the overall campaign story. This game has the quality of a Triple A title but could be so much more and no one here wants to see what it could be?

[Iccotak]

Here is a piece from a player who, like many, leave because of the repetition and that all the investment they did is going no where.

Link below:

 https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4jne69/equipment_oversaturation/?st=ivn79cgv&sh=2e64c2ad

The way the game has been changing, it doesn't feel like it's even working towards a finished product. I'm probably going to walk away again after investing so much more into this game again just because the fundamentals need a second look. DE needs to decide what they want for the finished product. Find a way to keep a platinum economy thriving so they don't need a steady release of new content to make profit, or put a pricetag on it. I'd honestly be overjoyed if they said, "We are looking to exit beta soon. We will be implementing massive tweaks to enemy scaling and mod scaling that may cause some interactions to be over/underpowered. We seek to gather data on this, adjust accordingly, land on final values that create an environment we are comfortable with, and prepare a fullscale release with a $40 pricetag. On final release, accounts will be reset."

Did that last line give you shivers? I've invested a lot here, too. I don't want it to disappear either. But this is supposedly a beta. On a full release, should it ever happen, if I kept everything, I'd be done with the game by the time I got it. I don't want more content to add to my mastery rank and toss, I want an arsenal of <75 weapons, each with 1-2 variants (prime, prisma, wraith, vandal), and half the frames we have already. But I want each piece of gear to be at least unique if not balanced to the same tier.

[artemisfortune]

8 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

This game has the quality of a Triple A title but could be so much more and no one here wants to see what it could be?

Not if it means Warframe becomes like every other F2P game. Firefall, Fallen Earth, Tera, etc. These all have publishers with kinds of memberships, expansion packs, even more rigorous and vital RNG rolls while having levels of grind that outlast Warframe. Imagine if TWW was a 20 dollar expansion title you had to buy. That's what Publishers do. They give a developer money, and then tell them what to do with that money to make sure they make a huge profit.

Also, AAA titles have been consistently poor lately, money has very little to do with quality.

[artemisfortune]

6 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Here is a piece from a player who, like many, leave because of the repetition and that all the investment they did is going no where.

Link below:

 https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4jne69/equipment_oversaturation/?st=ivn79cgv&sh=2e64c2ad

The way the game has been changing, it doesn't feel like it's even working towards a finished product. I'm probably going to walk away again after investing so much more into this game again just because the fundamentals need a second look. DE needs to decide what they want for the finished product. Find a way to keep a platinum economy thriving so they don't need a steady release of new content to make profit, or put a pricetag on it. I'd honestly be overjoyed if they said, "We are looking to exit beta soon. We will be implementing massive tweaks to enemy scaling and mod scaling that may cause some interactions to be over/underpowered. We seek to gather data on this, adjust accordingly, land on final values that create an environment we are comfortable with, and prepare a fullscale release with a $40 pricetag. On final release, accounts will be reset."

Did that last line give you shivers? I've invested a lot here, too. I don't want it to disappear either. But this is supposedly a beta. On a full release, should it ever happen, if I kept everything, I'd be done with the game by the time I got it. I don't want more content to add to my mastery rank and toss, I want an arsenal of <75 weapons, each with 1-2 variants (prime, prisma, wraith, vandal), and half the frames we have already. But I want each piece of gear to be at least unique if not balanced to the same tier.

Double posting because I'm lazy.

 

No video game will ever hold someone's attention for the rest of their life. We have very small attention spans as humans alone. Things will get boring, nothing will change that. If you've played for 3-4 years like a lot of us have, and are still kicking, eventually you won't be. It's a fact of life with anything.

Let me put it like this. https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561198048503054/?cc=us is my steam account. Look at the games I've never played, or barely played. I have a small attention span, I get bored easily. I get bored with Warframe too. I have games on Origin, my GMG account, my GOG account, etc that I've rarely or never played. It happens. I don't think the games are failures because of it.