Test Before You Talk

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

The best is always a small percentage of anything. I don't see a reason why this would not apply to gaming too.

I agree with this. Play however you want and with what you like. Just don't try to pretend it is the best gear in the game. If you like Oberon then play him. Just don't pretend like he is the best or get offended when people call you out on it.

In the end, pretending he is great only hurts you. If people pretend he is good then he is less likely to ever get the buffs he needs to actually be good.

 

I'm not pretending at all, and since you're PS4, I can personally show you stuff. What do you need to see for you to admit you're wrong?

[SurrealEdge]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

The best is always a small percentage of anything. I don't see a reason why this would not apply to gaming too.

I agree with this. Play however you want and with what you like. Just don't try to pretend it is the best gear in the game. If you like Oberon then play him. Just don't pretend like he is the best or get offended when people call you out on it.

In the end, pretending he is great only hurts you. If people pretend he is good then he is less likely to ever get the buffs he needs to actually be good.

 

People thought Saryn, Mag and Ash were good before being changed. Now those changes have happened, they're not much different from their previous incarnation. Bladestorm doesn't feel great and needs more touching up, but his stealth play has gotten better.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

I'm not pretending at all, and since you're PS4, I can personally show you stuff. What do you need to see for you to admit you're wrong?

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

3 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

Now those changes have happened, they're not much different from their previous incarnation.

They are incredibly different. Mag for example, even discounting G-Pull, used to have an infinitely scaling damage ability. Before her skill could nuke level 9999 enemies in the void as easily as level 30 enemies. That's gone now.

[Thebel]

4 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

People thought Saryn, Mag and Ash were good before being changed. Now those changes have happened, they're not much different from their previous incarnation. Bladestorm doesn't feel great and needs more touching up, but his stealth play has gotten better.

In a way they were good though.

Sayrn excelled at being a nuke frame because of MIasma's inverse scaling.

Mag excelled at nuking anything with shields.

Ash excelled at pissing off your squad.

Now?

Sayrn is a viral bot

Mag is only really good at single targets (Magnitize)

Ash is only good at making himself pissed off by watching cut scenes still.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

I've been paying attention to everything. What?

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

Way too often, I see people judging weapons and warframes without a lot or any usage with them. Last night, for example, I argued with a guy about Zephyr, and he didn't even reach 1mil EXP with her, while I had over 8x more than him.

That's just the way of the forums. I've had people telling me I don't understand Wukong, despite the fact I have over 100mill xp on him and they had less than a million.

To answer your question, people are generally far too over-opinionated for their own good. This is prevalent in all aspects of life, not just Warframe. There's unfortunately nothing you can do about it.

[SurrealEdge]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

They are incredibly different. Mag for example, even discounting G-Pull, used to have an infinitely scaling damage ability. Before her skill could nuke level 9999 enemies in the void as easily as level 30 enemies. That's gone now.

Not so much since ut removes armor and still does damage to shields. Not as high as it used to, but it still does its job.

 

Just now, Thebel said:

In a way they were good though.

Sayrn excelled at being a nuke frame because of MIasma's inverse scaling.

Mag excelled at nuking anything with shields.

Ash excelled at pissing off your squad.

Now?

Sayrn is a viral bot

Mag is only really good at single targets (Magnitize)

Ash is only good at making himself pissed off by watching cut scenes still.

Saryn still clears rooms.

Mag has more defensive capabilities and can strip armor and hurting armored units with Polarize. Crush gets a damage buff if Polarize is used before hand. Pull also benefits from Polarize. 

Ash's Bladestorm isn't much different than what it was before. Again his stealthplay is better than it has been.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

7 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

Not so much since ut removes armor and still does damage to shields. Not as high as it used to, but it still does its job.

The damage is no longer infinitely scaling.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

I've been paying attention to everything. What?

see:

 

[Thebel]

13 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

Not so much since ut removes armor and still does damage to shields. Not as high as it used to, but it still does its job.

 

Saryn still clears rooms.

Mag has more defensive capabilities and can strip armor and hurting armored units with Polarize. Crush gets a damage buff if Polarize is used before hand. Pull also benefits from Polarize. 

Ash's Bladestorm isn't much different than what it was before. Again his stealthplay is better than it has been.

Sayrn can clear but it takes more time and effort than most nuke frames just pressing 4, it's not a matter of whether she can or not, it's the efficiency of it all. 2-1-4 vs 4, argue all you want about it being 3 buttons vs 1 button, in the end it's 3 buttons vs 1 button, it's clear which is obviously less effort no matter how minuscule the difference is.

Mag's armor stripping is pretty bad and requires too many casts to have a really meaningful effect for when you actually need armor stripped, using corrosive projection gets you farther. There's nothing wrong with her having a decent balance of offense and defense but she no longer has the only scaling nuke in the game. No matter how you look at it, that's a nerf whether it was needed or not for game balance.

Ash's major changes to me honestly were the QoL stuff, smoke screen having no animation lock, blade storm targets not being invincible. They did a half hearted job by making it more interactive to use but didn't remove the part that made it inactive. GG

Edited December 3, 2016 by Thebel

[Jackviator]

1 hour ago, Tailion said:

the only real way Rhino loses is mobility

And even then, if you can get your hands on this:

Suddenly you have just a flat-out better version of Nezha, minus the healing.

[SurrealEdge]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

The damage is no longer infinitely scaling.

see:

 

It still does the job.

If that is your only focus being that it no longer infinitely scales, there isn't anymore to say to you.

14 minutes ago, Thebel said:

Sayrn can clear but it takes more time and effort than most nuke frames just pressing 4, it's not a matter of whether she can or not, it's the efficiency of it all. 2-1-4 vs 4, argue all you want about it being 3 buttons vs 1 button, in the end it's 3 buttons vs 1 button, it's clear which is obviously less effort no matter how minuscule the difference is.

Mag's armor stripping is pretty bad and requires too many casts to have a really meaningful effect for when you actually need armor stripped, using corrosive projection gets you farther. There's nothing wrong with her having a decent balance of offense and defense but she no longer has the only scaling nuke in the game. No matter how you look at it, that's a nerf whether it was needed or not for game balance.

Ash's major changes to me honestly were the QoL stuff, smoke screen having no animation lock, blade storm targets not being invincible. They did a half hearted job by making it more interactive to use but didn't remove the part that made it inactive. GG

What I'mgetting is because it's no longer push 1 button to nuke, it's no longer viable?

Her armor stripping is lacking for later content, but it is still a viable option should not everyone bring Corrosive Projection along. Again, it also goes back to press a button to nuke.

Ash's level of rework for Bladestorm isn't great and doesn't alleviate the problems it had to begin with. At least it doesn't have the old bugs it was stuck with.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

4 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Suddenly you have just a flat-out better version of Nezha

Nezha still wins in cuteness.

1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said:

It still does the job.

Sure, if you stick to DEAC.

Edited December 3, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Jackviator]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Nezha still wins in cuteness.

I beg to differ. 

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, Jackviator said:

I beg to differ. 

 

HAHAHA, that's amazing.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

The damage is no longer infinitely scaling.

see:

 

Better, easier, and faster are all things which can be shown.

[Prany]

5 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

I beg to differ. 

 

cue nosebleed

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

Better, easier, and faster are all things which can be shown.

*SHH* We're looking at the cute Rhino now.

[Gorila_Azul]

+1

This is particularly annoying when people want to suggest reworks for frames they hardly ever play. People will play a frame for less than half an hour and immediately go to the forums to try and say what should be changed not knowing what is good for said frame or where it excels.

Oh and btw, Rhino can eat a flaming sock filled with rotten butter for all I care. Nezha all the way.

[Thebel]

2 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

It still does the job.

If that is your only focus being that it no longer infinitely scales, there isn't anymore to say to you.

What I'mgetting is because it's no longer push 1 button to nuke, it's no longer viable?

Her armor stripping is lacking for later content, but it is still a viable option should not everyone bring Corrosive Projection along. Again, it also goes back to press a button to nuke.

Ash's level of rework for Bladestorm isn't great and doesn't alleviate the problems it had to begin with. At least it doesn't have the old bugs it was stuck with.

It's not a matter of viable, anything in this game is viable. They just switched what Sayrn was good at, if I bring a Sayrn, I'm not bringing her for dps, I'm bringing her for a passive viral debuff. In the end she's still basically a 1 button frame because Spores outshines the rest of her kit.

Mag ends up still being a niche sort of pick, she doesn't really destroy corpus anymore, polarize is a flat damage nuke, nullies will destroy her magnetize spheres, in the end she's now better fighting grineer since they can't nullify her powers easily and she can make magnetize worthwhile because grineer are more tanky and the damage buff from it will help put them down. Also let's not forget that as long as the magnetize spheres exist they still pull bullets in friendly or foe, possibly becoming an annoyance for your squad.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, Gorila_Azul said:

for frames they hardly ever play

Except for Limbo. I have never played him and know he needs a rework.

2 minutes ago, Gorila_Azul said:

Nezha all the way.

Real frames have curves.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

*SHH* We're looking at the cute Rhino now.

Afraid of being proven wrong?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

Afraid of being proven wrong?

Don't know. It's never happened.

[SurrealEdge]

20 minutes ago, Thebel said:

It's not a matter of viable, anything in this game is viable. They just switched what Sayrn was good at, if I bring a Sayrn, I'm not bringing her for dps, I'm bringing her for a passive viral debuff. In the end she's still basically a 1 button frame because Spores outshines the rest of her kit.

Mag ends up still being a niche sort of pick, she doesn't really destroy corpus anymore, polarize is a flat damage nuke, nullies will destroy her magnetize spheres, in the end she's now better fighting grineer since they can't nullify her powers easily and she can make magnetize worthwhile because grineer are more tanky and the damage buff from it will help put them down. Also let's not forget that as long as the magnetize spheres exist they still pull bullets in friendly or foe, possibly becoming an annoyance for your squad.

That doesn't discount Saryn from being able to deal large amounts of damage in a short time span. Not as short as it used to be, but still perfectly viable regardless of the viral proc.

Magnetize still creates a pocket of death for enemies that walk into it, not just a single target only ability. It also serves well as a small barrier similar to Nyx's absorb shoud you find yourself needing to find cover. The only downside is that it pulls bullet from both sides

[AzureTerra]

You don't need X Exp in a frame to know its not what you like, you just need to have play them enough to know what they do. ive less than a million in both Oberon and Wukong, i leveled them (yes actually leveled not sat in Draco or whatever) and found that between aesthetics and how the frames play they were not that good, that some others can make them work is good for them. I hate loki with a passion only passed by Volt but i kept the prime for its stealth and as soon as a better option (Ivara) came Loki p was dropped in the bin where he belongs. I'll happily deride Loki, Wukong, Volt and Oberon all day and if you like those frames then suck it up as no ammount you trying to explain otherwise will make like bad frames.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

The only downside is that it pulls bullet from both sides

That's a massive downside.

Also, can enemies still just walk out of it?

2 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

You don't need X Exp in a frame to know its not what you like, you just need to have play them enough to know what they do.

This.

4 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

Loki

He is actually really good though. You don't have to like him, but that doesn't change him being ridiculously good to the point of even being OP.