Vaulted Primes and New Relics!

[DEATHSCYTHE38]

What i don't understand is why DE or Sheldon for that part, starts making new relics when(for example: Nova Prime is vaulted but I can still get her and the weapons she came out with in prime access) are still available. why make new relics for certain previously prime vaulted stuff when you just have to shift it around. Making new relics seems to be a waste of time, in my opinion and I have seen every change that there has been made to the game for almost 4 yrs, some changes I like but some thing just don't get fixed.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

The reason, as I see it, is because people sometimes stockpile relics for items that will get vaulted. If DE decided to overwrite vaulted parts with items that were unvaulted, instead of creating new relics, a lot of people would be miffed.

[NightBlitz]

honestly, i prefer it the way it is now, makes things easier, especially since it means that the unvaulting period is just the time frame that the relics can be gotten rather than having to spend untold hours do both things in that same time frame

[Inarticulate]

In the old key system, players with a stockpile of keys got an advantage when equipment was unvaulted due to not having to farm for keys for the unvaulted parts.

In the new system, all players start on equal footing and can focus all of their time farming the unvaulted relics instead of wasting time farming something else first.

[ChuckMaverick]

8 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

In the new system, all players start on equal footing and can focus all of their time farming the unvaulted relics instead of wasting time farming something else first.

Yep, although I mix in some running of the unvaulted relics too. If I get all the items I need from a relic I can stop farming it and focus on the others I need.

Of course, the best option of all is to farm the primes before they get vaulted, so make sure you know which ones are next in line.

[LSG501]

Maybe they could 'combine' the old system and the new system into something like below. 

As it is now we farm for relics, prior to this it was keys, and then go and run the relevant level to try and get the prime parts.  What about changing the current system so we farm for keys for lith, meso, neo and axi and each of these keys can be converted (small reactant/credit cost) into the specific relic we actually need or we can take a free random relic instead.... 

The most annoying thing about the current system for me is getting the exact relic I need and this gets worse as you eventually get everything on the existing relics because it seems that newer relics always drop less than old ones even though the odds are equal because of the ratio of old to new relics... in theory the above would get rid of this annoying aspect of relics and make things a little less rng grind.. (that would be so nice considering how much rng is in the game now)

[ChuckMaverick]

53 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Maybe they could 'combine' the old system and the new system into something like below. 

As it is now we farm for relics, prior to this it was keys, and then go and run the relevant level to try and get the prime parts.  What about changing the current system so we farm for keys for lith, meso, neo and axi and each of these keys can be converted (small reactant/credit cost) into the specific relic we actually need or we can take a free random relic instead....

Under the old void key system, getting the right key was easy, but getting the prime part was a grind.

Under the relic system, getting the right relic is a grind, but getting the prime part is easy.

If you take the grind out of getting the right relic then the whole system becomes trivial and everyone will have the new shinies on the day they're released/unvaulted.

[LSG501]

11 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Under the old void key system, getting the right key was easy, but getting the prime part was a grind.

Under the relic system, getting the right relic is a grind, but getting the prime part is easy.

If you take the grind out of getting the right relic then the whole system becomes trivial and everyone will have the new shinies on the day they're released/unvaulted.

Thats why I added a cost involved in getting the exact relic... it's not about making it trivial, it's about making it so we can actually get the relic we NEED rather than getting the same ducat fodder relics over and over.   There's also nothing to say that new relics need to be able to go into the the 'conversion pool' straight away either or they could even make it so you first need to get a relic via a random pick first before you can create the exact relic you need, think of it like getting a bp of that relic. 

There comes a point when players will literally only need one or two prime parts to finish their collections, up until the recent releases I only needed nikana prime and items that were currently vaulted so no matter how many times I get a different relic it's of no use to me other than getting ducats. 

[ChuckMaverick]

59 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Thats why I added a cost involved in getting the exact relic... it's not about making it trivial

 

13 hours ago, LSG501 said:

What about changing the current system so we farm for keys for lith, meso, neo and axi and each of these keys can be converted (small reactant/credit cost) into the specific relic we actually need or we can take a free random relic instead....

Sounds pretty trivial to me.

If you made the trace (I'm assuming you meant that, not reactant) or credit cost non-trivial then you're just moving the grind from relic farming to trace/credit farming.

The only substantial difference is that you're proposing a change from a random time cost (RNG on relic drops) to a more fixed time cost (grinding the specified amount of traces/credits).

The whole RNG/fixed reward system choice is a bigger game design philosophy question than just prime part farming.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

 

Sounds pretty trivial to me.

If you made the trace (I'm assuming you meant that, not reactant) or credit cost non-trivial then you're just moving the grind from relic farming to trace/credit farming.

The only substantial difference is that you're proposing a change from a random time cost (RNG on relic drops) to a more fixed time cost (grinding the specified amount of traces/credits).

The whole RNG/fixed reward system choice is a bigger game design philosophy question than just prime part farming.

The devs want rng because in their eyes it pushes players to buy the prime access or plat, a lot of players don't like the amount of rng, there's rng in getting the relic and then rng in getting the reward.  I also said small cost because we all know what a small cost is when the dev's get involved, just look at the cost per endo of converting an ayatan statue. 

My idea maintains the rng of the relic but allows players to get the item they want easier and with less annoyance at the rng for relics, there would still be rng on the relic itself and based on my own experience getting that rare item would still be a pita.    I also suggested the bit about making it so you first need to get the relic via rng before you can craft it so there are ways that can stop it from being trivial. 

You make out credits are hard to come by, most players that are after specific prime parts likely have very little concern for credits or trace even and would be happy to sacrifice some of these items for improved rng, hell the dev's could make the cost kuva so it's for 'end gamers' who have done tww or even put the item needed (with a reasonable drop rate) for conversion on the kuva fortress or in the void so we have a reason to go there.... 

 

 

I'm not saying the whole RNG system doesn't need working on, I feel that rng weighting should shift based on how many times you've had the other items in the drop table so that you don't spend days trying to get that last part of a frame etc but while people do complain about it most people seem to be more concerned with the prime parts and relics.