Rhino 8.3: Feedback Thread

[Chardansearavitriol]

Someone must have alrdy put it in here somewhere but just in case...Iron Skin is affected by friendly fire. No bueno!

Pls fix this.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Chardansearavitriol

[SlowMoMo]

Someone must have alrdy put it in here somewhere but just in case...Iron Skin is affected by friendly fire. No bueno!

Pls fix this.

yes i just recent experienced this when playing in an infested mission. we were messing around at the extraction point and a couple of my teammates were shooting me and my iron skin just fell off O__O please fix soon, im sure this is a bug

Edited July 6, 2013 by SlowMoMo

[Naugus]

I think the biggest complaint about Rhino Stomp is that while it IS powerful (but very expensive with Rhino's puny energy pool), it doesn't FEEL powerful. The big selling point for Radial Blast was that it liquefied enemies, but Rhino stomp only shows it's slowmo effect on the enemies that SURVIVE. 

 

So here is my proposal:

Make Rhino Stomp slowmo even the dead enemies. This makes it feel like the Stomp is actually incomparably strong. BUT! This would be a problem for identifing the survivors for mopping up. So make it so that anyone killed by the Stomp remains in the slowmo but quickly disintegrates. Alternatively, DE could bring back the SPLAT and leave the enemies bloody dismembered limbs behind to slowly drift away and majesticly continue their journey through the sta- I WANNA MURDERIZE SOMETHING WITH STOMP!!!! >=(

[Ragewolf]

The only thing i dont like about this change is Roar.

Previously we had 1 - Ranged line knockdown, 2 - Defensive tank skills (im ok with the changes to IS), 3 - aoe circle knockdown with dmg. 4 - aoe larger circle knockup then knockdown. I liked the pattern of knockdown team support

Now 3 is a buff skill with nothing else, i dont really want to use it just to buff my weapon for however long. For most of my weapons, thats now overkill dmg i dont even need.

My Suggestion for Roar - Add an AoE Circle Knockdown to it. NO DAMAGE. Just an aoe knockdown ontop of the wep dmg boost. You knockdown everything in the immediate area and get a dmg buff to shoot them while theyre down. Seems fitting.

Thats something that would make me slot the skill, as atm im not and see no need for it. I like the changes and the combination of Radial+Stomp, but a simple buff is a bit boring to replace radial with.

Roar - max 50% wep dmg increase, radial aoe knockdown the same range as the buff for allies (so they could shoot knockeddown enemies also), 0 damage. AoE of knockdown and buff increased by stretch, MAYBE duration of knockdown/buff increased by continuity.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Ragewolf

[Naugus]

Ragewolf, I like the way you think! If the Rhino is such a powerhouse, why wouldn't he have the lungs to match? Being able to shout loud enough to stagger/knockdown enemies would be the PERFECT addition to Roar!

[AstorSigma]

Thank you Ragewolf. I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt this way about Roar.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

The only thing i dont like about this change is Roar.

Previously we had 1 - Ranged line knockdown, 2 - Defensive tank skills (im ok with the changes to IS), 3 - aoe circle knockdown with dmg. 4 - aoe larger circle knockup then knockdown. I liked the pattern of knockdown team support

Now 3 is a buff skill with nothing else, i dont really want to use it just to buff my weapon for however long. For most of my weapons, thats now overkill dmg i dont even need.

My Suggestion for Roar - Add an AoE Circle Knockdown to it. NO DAMAGE. Just an aoe knockdown ontop of the wep dmg boost. You knockdown everything in the immediate area and get a dmg buff to shoot them while theyre down. Seems fitting.

Thats something that would make me slot the skill, as atm im not and see no need for it. I like the changes and the combination of Radial+Stomp, but a simple buff is a bit boring to replace radial with.

Roar - max 50% wep dmg increase, radial aoe knockdown the same range as the buff for allies (so they could shoot knockeddown enemies also), 0 damage. AoE of knockdown and buff increased by stretch, MAYBE duration of knockdown/buff increased by continuity.

Or maybe instead of a knockdown, a stun, or stagger :D

[Patrynio]

I've been plying Rhino pre-nerf and after the big nerf, I've switched to other frames and ended up with Frost. After 8.3, I've decided to give him another go - here are my thoughts after some testing.

First of all, Rhino isn't in my opinion end-game-capable frame right now, but it doesn't matter for me. Many other frames are incapable of surviving high lvl defense waves. However, that doesn't mean that he isn't a lot of fun to play.

Rhino Charge: primarily a travel skill for me, sometimes a cheap way to destroy a row of low level enemies. It's fine as it is.

Irok Skin: well, this one is kinda controversial, people complain about dmg cap being too low, but I like to think about that skill as a knockdown/poison/disrupt/stun immunity skill. It's awesome in that respect. Still doesn't protect you from lvl 100enemies, but not many frames have such abilities. You shouldn't rely on one ability that can defend you from those high lvl enemies, as Frost does. I'd leave this ability as it is. (I'm not really into high lvl defense missions, so bear that in mind.)

 

Roar: this one is a welcome change! I've never used Radial Blast, but this one stays in my loadout all the time. Especially great on bosses. Not as great as Sonar, but does the job quite nicely.

 

Rhino Stomp: didn't expect such great results from this one, but it became my favourite skill. Good dmg because of the armor ignore, awesome CC, it's the Rhino Ulti he deserves.

Rhino after this patch seemes similair to a Banshee for me with his 3rd and 4th skills. He isn't better in every possible way, but he's a nicely balanced warframe. I like it a lot! Thanks DE!

 

Sorry for my english, it isn't my native language : )

[Ragewolf]

Or maybe instead of a knockdown, a stun, or stagger :D

I thought the same thing, but idk, i think it would look/feel pretty badass to Roar, then shoot a knocked down grineer, then see your team shooting those knocked down with the buff also. Adds to the team effect of the skill i think. 

Also, i think its harder to get headshots on knocked down targets than those staggered/stunned. So knock down wouldnt make this skill op. 50% wep dmg boost, spin in a circle and get 1-3 headshots depending on weapon and you've dropped a whole set of grineer, its easy headshots/kills with stagger/stun.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Ragewolf

[seth]

Here is my feedback:

 

1. IRON SKIN

Rhino: Iron Skin - 400,600,800,1200 damage caps. Removed timer.

 

On low lvls Iron Skin is overpowered, example: farming neurodes from Hek (boss) - one Iron Skin can survive the whole mission so there is no point in shield/hp mod since nothing will break trough.

On high lvls, example: Ceres, Eris, Pluto - Iron Skin can be useful while running trough missions, but in crowded situations when you need it the most it wil fail you.

On high lvl defense mission (wave 15+), example: Eris Xini - Iron Skin is just a fashionable power, it has no use whatsoever.

 

In case of Ancient Disruptors, since player doesn't know how much dmg can Iron Skin take and can't recast Iron Skin, it is inevitable that more sooner than later - player will be disrupted (player eng. = 0), and since he will be in crowd (Rhino is a tank and therefore should be a viable option in CQC), surrounded with Runners, Chargers and so on, player will be:

- stun locked at best.

- there is chance to escape crowd. (Rush mod is a must in this situation)

- finding eng will not help since disruption lasts few sec.

- player will die.

Similar thing will happen around Toxic Ancient - and those are close ranged enemies.... imagine what horrible things would happen if ranged ones were in question.

 

There is one interesting thing, if one of your buddies has Ogris and he fires it in crowd that you are "tanking" or pretending to tank... it's dmg will destroy Iron Skin. How charming when surrounded by 5 Ancient Disruptors, 5 Toxic Ancienet and their friends. ^^

 

I suggest making Iron Skin like old one (invincibility for some period of time), and it should have agro function like Loki Decoy so user can TANK EQUALLY on all levels. This would be balanced option compared to current one.

 

 

2. ROAR

Rhino Roar: NEW POWER: Radial damage buff for all players within range (10%,15%,25%,50%)

 

Good power, useful when extra punch is needed, however it misses some visual representation who got buffed and how long it lasts.

I would suggest adding extra buff like: +15% speed (run, melee atk, melee charge atk, stamina regen) on maxed mod, since this is adrenalin/going berserk type of power.

 

 

3. RHINO STOMP

Rhino: Rhino Stomp - Rolled Radial blast and Rhino Stomp together. Rhino Stomp now does damage to enemies(150,300,500,800)

 

It's not bad, however it's not that useful / good / eng. efficient compared to other frames.

Since closed beta, and Rhinos first appearance it was always going to be CC ablity more than instant dmg ability, so that is the way it should be buffed. This update only makes it like placing a Ferrari spoiler on Yugo and saying something like: "There! Now it's more aerodynamic... it should go faster."

Levitate / Matrix effect should last longer, 15-20 sec, because this is only useful as a CC ability on high lvls, it should also reduce enemies defense by X% while they are in air.

I suggest making unranked mod to do no dmg, making it as Rhino Stomp before update but with same "levitate" effect time and enemie defense reduction - for those players who like slicing things Matrix style.

This means that ranking up mod will only give it a damage boost, which is similar to ranking up Trinity Blessing.

[weezedog]

I'm pretty happy with most of the changes, though I'll add my opinion on some tweaks.

 

Rhino Charge - Fine as is, but would like to see it rag doll enemies and knock them farther away. It should be like a wrecking ball coming through. Think of a bowling ball hitting pins.

 

Iron Skin - Love the unlimited duration, so great passing through laser doors and being unable to be knocked down, stun, rolllered, etc. As everyone has said, it doesn't scale with end game, not sure it ever will again. Maybe combine the cap with a damage reduction component as well?

 

Roar - Good for boss fights, but 50% is nothing compared to Sonar's 500% increase in damage. Now Sonar requires actual skill to do the damage and that is an awesome feature, so it definitely earns that 500%. I would say Roar should be in the 150-200% range to make it worth while.

 

Rhino Stomp - Like the idea but have a problem with the execution. It's currently stuck in a bad area between CC and damage ability making it bad at both. As a CC it doesn't work well because it doesn't slow new enemies down who enter the area after the cast but while the CC is in effect, not to mention it's relatively short CC duration. As a damage ability it fails because you can't spam it because of the CC component's power in use issue, you have to wait 9-13 seconds for the CC to wear off before you can do damage again. I've been stuck many times frantically mashing my #4 button waiting for the error to go away while being surrounded by ancients or heavies etc. Needs to slow new enemies who enter the area, and need to remove the power in use issue or it will forever be stuck in the "jack of all trades, master of none" spot where its ok at both but great at neither.

[TheNecrow]

Roar: this one is a welcome change! I've never used Radial Blast, but this one stays in my loadout all the time. Especially great on bosses. Not as great as Sonar, but does the job quite nicely.

 

Rhino Stomp: didn't expect such great results from this one, but it became my favourite skill. Good dmg because of the armor ignore, awesome CC, it's the Rhino Ulti he deserves.

 

 

You never used radial blast. You don't know how useful it was. The only reason you like Rhino Stomp is BECAUSE of Radial Blast being merged into it. Old Stomp only did CC. Had you been using Radial Blast, you wouldn't be singing the new Stomp's praises.

Edited July 6, 2013 by TheNecrow

[Keyza]

I read somewhere earlier in this thread that Iron Skin is affected by armor. Can someone confirm or disprove this claim ?

[lZerul]

I read somewhere earlier in this thread that Iron Skin is affected by armor. Can someone confirm or disprove this claim ?

 

It doesn't, but it really really should.

 

You never used radial blast. You don't know how useful it was. The only reason you like Rhino Stomp is BECAUSE of Radial Blast being merged into it. Old Stomp only did CC. Had you been using Radial Blast, you wouldn't be singing the new Stomp's praises.

 

The current Rhino stomp is better damage wise then Radial Blast was (due to armor ignore), and has the same range as Rhino stomp always had. The new Rhino Stomp is absolutely amazing, it just needs some aesthetic buffs (exploding enemies like Radial Blast did) and it would be perfect.

 

To all those complaining you can't spam the skill, you guys do realize Rhino isn't a nuke-frame right? Rhino stomp kills most non-heavy units within a 20+ meter radius and floats the renaming units for 9+ seconds. If you are complaining you can't cast it again when new enemies show up, you used it too early, or didn't kill the floating heavies fast enough.

[Keyza]

It doesn't, but it really really should.

 

 

The current Rhino stomp is better damage wise then Radial Blast was (due to armor ignore), and has the same range as Rhino stomp always had. The new Rhino Stomp is absolutely amazing, it just needs some aesthetic buffs (exploding enemies like Radial Blast did) and it would be perfect.

 

To all those complaining you can't spam the skill, you guys do realize Rhino isn't a nuke-frame right? Rhino stomp kills most non-heavy units within a 20+ meter radius and floats the renaming units for 9+ seconds. If you are complaining you can't cast it again when new enemies show up, you used it too early, or didn't kill the floating heavies fast enough.

It should huh ? I think that would solve it once and for all ! Not to mention Rhino has the armor capacity for it as well.

[Raejin99]

I love the new Rhino. Sure, you don't have a spammable radial blast anymore, but now every skill feels relevant. Even if Iron Skin isn't perfect, it's still very useful, such as for keeping yourself from getting stunlocked. Roar is amazing, especially on defense when all your allies are close enough to get everyone with it. Rhino stomp has become the ultimate crowd control ability, since you can pretty much reduce all the little units to smears on the floor with it, and anything heavier is essentially put out of commission for over 9 seconds. And of course there is Rhino Charge, which remains ever useful for getting out of tough spots (though still not as good as slash dash, but I'm not complaining).

 

The thing to realize about Rhino is that he never was a true tank, not in the traditional sense. Yes, the original Iron Skin did give you tanking abilities, and he certainly has good armor, health, and shields. But overall his design has really geared him towards crowd control. Old Rhino was very good at this with the spammable Radial Blast, but now he excels at it. Iron Skin allows you to ignore enemy stun and crowd control abilities, while Rhino Stomp makes short work of crowds of any disposition. In addition, the new Roar power greatly can increase your whole squad's damage output, giving them much more flexibility in terms of dealing with large numbers of enemies.

 

Once you view Rhino as crowd control and not a traditional tank, you'll see he's quite good at what he does.

[Hixlysss]

I like the new FX thing added to Rhino Roar, but perhaps give it a outward pulsing thing, like Volt's bubble that extends out, so we can sorta see it's range, unless it's like blessing which works on any warframe in your party.

[SlowMoMo]

You never used radial blast. You don't know how useful it was. The only reason you like Rhino Stomp is BECAUSE of Radial Blast being merged into it. Old Stomp only did CC. Had you been using Radial Blast, you wouldn't be singing the new Stomp's praises.

I've used radial blast before the update a lot. pretty much in every missions whether its low or high levels. defense or missions like raid/sabotage. honestly, i like the new rhino stomp. sure you wont be spamming it like radial blast but you won't need to, it pretty much one hits in HUGE radius and and left over enemies you can finish off with your weapon because it CC's in a HUGE radius. i just use secondary, do to most of the enemy are low hp anyways. so you get a 2 in 1 whats so bad about that? i don't see the problem with this new rhino stomp. imo i think the advantages out weighs the disadvantages by a good margin.

Edited July 6, 2013 by SlowMoMo

[Lord.Finster]

I like the overall changes a lot. Here is my opinion on the skills.

 

Rhino Charge:

Nice effect upgrade on that one. It helps make it more different from slashdash. Is the damage armour ignoring? If not, it should be.

Need to test more...

 

Rhino skin:

Buffing the buffer was a good idea but I'm still not convinced of the ability for 2 reasons.

I heavily dislike running around in 'tinfoil' all the time from an aesthetic standpoint. I really want to see my frame's colours and feel different from the other Rhinos; in a group with multiple Rhinos I look exactly like them all the time because the duration is now unlimited.

From a mechanical standpoint I love the extended CC immunity. It really helps keeping Rhino mobile in critical situations, however, tying it to the hitpoint buffer is a bad idea, since it becomes unreliable in higher level missions because you never exactly know when it runs out.

In general, the great hate for this ability is bred from the envy towards Overheat and Link and conflicting notions about what it means to be tanky.

The ability shouldn't be a copy of either.

 

Suggestion:

The strength of the ability is CC immunity. No other ability offers this and it has to be the main selling point. Now just make it reliable.

 

Give me 10/20/30 seconds of CC immunity, increased by continuity and you already have an ability that is useful.

 

Additionally make it increase Rhino's effective armour value by 100% for the duration (increased by power strength), so damage to his health is greatly reduced, even when his shields fail. Equipping Steel Fiber will allow Rhino users to reach effective armour values of above 500, thus making it possible to hold the ground for a small price in blood.

 

Also, remove the taunt effect and work it into the roar ability.

 

Aesthetically, make it more subtle, like a silver sheen on the frame; more transparent than now.

 

Rhino Roar:

It's great to see this ability, since I was one of the people suggesting it. I also love the fact that it's beneficial to the team. Great!

But for 75 energy it's a bit underwhelming still.

 

Suggestion:

Roar should be the ability that taunts surrounding enemies, not Iron Skin! Rhino is still slow as a snail, especially with Thrak helmet on, so reaching enough enemies before the ability runs out might be an issue for its effectiveness. Point is: If I want to go melee, I want as many enemies as possible in range instead of running towards them, or them even fleeing from me as some people suggest. The last thing you want is mobs running away from Rhino with this skill on. Of course this predestines Rhino for multihit melee weapons.

Also, making this the ability that taunts is beneficial to the team because their damage gets buffed as well and they can now operate freely to make the most of it, as Rhino has drawn all the aggro. Your team will simply love you!

Last point: Of course, standing on the battlefield screaming will get the attention of the enemy for sure!

 

Rhino Stomp:

Well done! The ability is now extremely useful. The damage ignores armour, so it scales well. It does only 240 less damage than Radial Javelin and hits an unlimited amount of targets. The radius is huge and the skill is automatically balanced because of the CC component which prevents me from spamming it (apart from the high energy cost). While it is true that Bastille, Vortex and Sound Quake have the benefit of being a constant area denial, people have to realize the massive size of Stomp's AoE (increased by stretch) and the unmitigated damage it puts out (including the damage done by finishing moves on downed opponents). As Rhino has the toughness to position himself properly, I never run into problems hitting everything important in the area.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Lord.Finster

[Dipstick]

I don't believe this at all because I just solo'd it with my level 30 rhino and IS evaporated in one and a half seconds of fire.

 

Sonar is 4x damage on a single target, roar is 1.5x damage on all targets. I wouldn't say roar's better. Just different.

I cant prove it but i totally did.

 

And funny thing is that sonar plus roar can make stomp almost one shot hyena, dunno how it works, but it does

[kadun]

It's nice playing Rhino again!

 

Iron skin is nice, very usefull. No interrupts or knockdowns is a great feature.  It seems a bit like an overshield which is fine but somewhat negates the point of armour and + the armour mod.  If possible could you just apply the shader to one of the Warframes colour masks?

 

Does Roar apply to weapon damage or just Warframe abilities ( ie the same effect as Focus ) ?

[forseeker]

Has anyone else noticed that Stomp seems to be doing two instances of damage to heavy or shielded units? I find that after a shielded unit is in the air from the initial stomp a large portion of its shields has already been removed and then it takes a hit to its HP a second or so later (this after removing the attack skill from my Sentinel and starting the encounter with Stomp). If the skill is doing 800 damage + 30% twice the coding may have to be re-examined as it would then have the best damage of all ubers. 

[Dwaggie]

Has anyone else noticed that Stomp seems to be doing two instances of damage to heavy or shielded units? I find that after a shielded unit is in the air from the initial stomp a large portion of its shields has already been removed and then it takes a hit to its HP a second or so later (this after removing the attack skill from my Sentinel and starting the encounter with Stomp). If the skill is doing 800 damage + 30% twice the coding may have to be re-examined as it would then have the best damage of all ubers. 

 

I've been preaching this all day, friends, the rhino stomp is one of the highest damage ults at the moment, with two 1040 damage armour ignoring ticks to all enemies, shielded or not (imagine this as Radial Javelin except longer range, damage drops off the farther from center the enemy is, and it goes through walls and floors). And the Iron Skin is definitely affected by armour values, I just tested it with and without steel fiber and the length of time you are invincible is considerably longer with steel fiber. Stop bashing this iron skin and ult and go try them. Knock down on roar would be OP as the ult already basically stun locks enemies for a duration, also killing all light enemies, even in t3 void.

[ShadowGhosting]

Been playing with the new Rhino setup for 10 hours now, so putting in more feedback.

 

Rhino Charge

I know nothing changed about this skill, but I would gladly trade the damage it does for more utility from the skill. Charge starts failing to kill stuff (if it even hits them) at ~30. I then have to shoot them to finish them off, where a single shot would kill them to begin with. Would much rather have a longer knockdown from it then the damage.

 

Iron Shield

I'm convinced the 1200 shield isn't there to soak up damage, but act as a built in timer for the skill. Making the sole purpose of the skill the CC immunity, and the taunt being there to make sure the timer ticks down. But, the shield just gives the illusion that it's supposed to be used as a tanking ability, but doesn't come close to acting like one.

 

If you could make it through a firefight without IS dropping, you didn't need it in the first place and could of just put the points into Redirection, saved 50 energy and just spammed Rhino Charge to kill everything quicker. If IS does drop, taunt just becomes a death wish, forcing you to take cover anyways, and spamming Rhino Charge would still be more useful. However, the taunt works effectively for kiting infested on defense missions. But that's it.

 

So here's the deal. Just kill off the idea of Iron Skin being a tank ability. Remove the 1200 damage absorb, loose the taunt. Keep the crowd control and debuff immunity since that's the only useful thing about it.
 

If it really is supposed to be used as a "tank" skill. Make it behave as such. Make it so Rhino's high armor actually plays a role for once, and finally gives a purpose to Steel Fiber for Rhino users. We want to use that mod! There's been plenty of great ideas for IS posted over and over again.

 

Roar

I'm still not sure what to think about this skill. In most situations, Rhino Stomp is just more efficient, and more fun to use.

 

It scales well in high-wave defense with heavily modded weapons, but it's completely useless outside of that, where everything is killed in 1-3 shots anyways. Also, if I wanted to play as a gimped Banshee, I would just play a Banshee.

 

The aura animation this has, is what Iron Skin should have.

 

Rhino Stomp

Can't ask anymore of it. Everything about it scales well.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

I thought the same thing, but idk, i think it would look/feel pretty badass to Roar, then shoot a knocked down grineer, then see your team shooting those knocked down with the buff also. Adds to the team effect of the skill i think. 

Also, i think its harder to get headshots on knocked down targets than those staggered/stunned. So knock down wouldnt make this skill op. 50% wep dmg boost, spin in a circle and get 1-3 headshots depending on weapon and you've dropped a whole set of grineer, its easy headshots/kills with stagger/stun.

Well a knock back would be slightly OP for a support ability don't ya think?