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[DE]Rebecca

Rhino 8.3: Feedback Thread

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Before: Rhino Charge, Iron Skin, Radial Blast, Rhino Stomp

 

After:

 

Iron Skin: 400, 600, 800, 1200 damage caps, removed timer.

 

Scott's comments:

Ah Iron Skin, this power has been tricky. I think the dual damage cap and timer made it hard to understand how the power was wearing off. So I removed the timer and left it as a pure damage sink. I also increased the damage caps to help with high end missions.

 

Rhino Roar: NEW POWER: Radial damage buff for all players within range (10%,15%,25%,50%)

 

Scott's comments:

This power was born out of a conversation with the community. I wanted to create a power that suited rhinos play style and also created a coop group buff. Damage buff seemed like a simple natural fit.

 

Rhino Stomp + Radial Blast combined: Rhino Stomp now damages enemies ( 150 300 500 800 )

Scott's comments:

It didn't make sense to have two powers that had mostly the same result. So combining these two powers created a true ultimate for Rhino.

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Looks really interesting. The damage buff looks like it'll make Rhino very popular. I can hear the cries now: "OHH PEEEE" D:

 

Will report back with results.

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Unacceptable. Any hard-cap will always be useless at high levels - a fixed amount of damage absorbed does not scale. Are we going to see the cap increased every time new, harder content is introduced, or can we actually see this skill function properly like Ember's does at the moment.

 

One excellent suggestion I saw was to make Iron Skin act like the Armour stat, but for shields, and simultaneously cause all damage dealt to be dealt to shields [no poison bypass], whereby activating IS would buff your max shields [either a % or flat increase], it would reduce damage dealt to shields [85% reduction at max rank, no focus], and then this effect lasted as long as you had shields left, but shields would not regenerate. Upon reaching 0 shields, IS deactivates and shields are returned to normal at max capacity.

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Oh, and on behalf of everybody, thanks for taking the much needed time to go back and revise old content. We beta testers might complain a lot, but your efforts are appreciated. Keep up the good work guys.

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I think I am still disapointed about the Iron skin

1200 or even 1200 * 1.3 = 1560 is still not work when I facing a group of high level mobs

so WHY, why ember still more tanky than rhino?

btw, I am interested to try the new power

and I REALLY REALLY hope to have a balance between Ember-overheat and Rhino-Iron skin

 

This is not the Iron skin I want, or we want

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First and for most guys, I watch all the live streams and I know the work you all put into this game for us and your own success.

So thank you for listening to the community (I come from a COD community so when then devs actually listen, it makes me feel good).

 

That said, people are still going to bash you for the Iron Skin. 

 

On the bright side, that might be the ONLY think about Rhino you will hear grief about.

 

Again, thank you for the work you put in and I will now proceed to play with my favorite warframe.

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Not a big fan of the reduced damage of 800 from 1000 on what was Radial Blast to Rhino Stomp, especially if Rhino Stomp still doesn't slow new enemies.

 

Also you can't tell how long Roar lasts because there's no visual effect for the duration

 

Edit: I take back the damage part. Now that I know it does armor ignoring damage (which radial blast did not) and has the increased range of stomp, I'm pretty happy with it.

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I think to fix the scaling issue, we're going to need a new Power Strength mod that only affects non-percentage based powers.

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Unacceptable. Any hard-cap will always be useless at high levels - a fixed amount of damage absorbed does not scale. Are we going to see the cap increased every time new, harder content is introduced, or can we actually see this skill function properly like Ember's does at the moment.

 

Take off all Redirection mods, and Vitality mods. Now you have lost less health than a SINGLE cast of Iron Skin gives you. Go to wave 100 on Xini, with 100 health and 100 shield, never taking a single point of damage. Then come back and tell me a buffer is worthless endgame. Until you do that, I won't be able to take any arguments to that effect seriously.

 

Then remember that you can recast IS every time you burn through it, since cooldowns don't exist. Giving you an EHP pool of 10k++ where you can't be staggered...and then more if you pick up any energy.

 

 

As someone who actually plays Rhino, compared to 90% of people who just complain about him because they want the invincibility EZ mode back, I couldn't be happier with his new form.

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Not a big fan of the reduced damage of 800 from 1000 on what was Radial Blast to Rhino Stomp, especially if Rhino Stomp still doesn't slow new enemies.

 

I think the CC more than makes up for the reduction in damage. Not to mention that you now have a 50% damage buff skill ;)

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I can already see two immediate problems:
 

1) Everyone's already pointed out the scaling on iron skin is still very poor and increasing the base values don't really do much. Compared to Ember's overheat this ability costs the same for far less benefit.

 

2) 50% dmg, compare this to Banshee, who gets x5 dmg on painted targets. Granted you need to aim but usually the targets are large and not difficult to hit.

 

I don't understand why so many warframes have very similar abilities but are nowhere near each other in terms of effectiveness.

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I'm quite fond of these changes (team damage buff woo!) but I have to admit id prefer some damage reduction that works on shields somewhere in there. I am quite jealous of Embers :(

 

 

I think if it were up to me I would change IS to be something you use while under fire to be able to soak up more without having to run. Maybe something like:

10-15 second duration, 50-80% damage reduction and 50-100% of shield regen even under fire, same knockdown/disruption immunity

 

this would let you go toe to toe with big baddies or large groups in a scaling way while still having limits to the amount of fire you can sustain

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Ember will still be best choice for a tanky warframe when it comes to soaking up huge amounts of damage for a long period of time. 1200 damage soak without damage reduce will just pop in a second in T3 void runs vs. elites for example. Ember can stand in a Void laser for several seconds until her shields run out with overheat running.. then the sentinel shield recharge pops and ember still stands. Rhino will die in 3 seconds.

 

Imho give Ember the flat damage absorb in form of a overheat shield and give Rhino the Overheat mechanic (damage reduce) minus the close range damage aura but with the taunt. To really tank you need damage reduction and not a flat damage soak.. especially when surrounded by 10 taunted enemies but that is exactly the place where rhino should be... in the middle of things soaking damage from taunted enemies.

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I have to say I'm not pleased. As others have said, increasing the damage threshold on Iron Skin does nothing where its useful (at high levels), Rhino Roar is good, but the new Rhino Stomp feels like a nerf for Radial Blast more than anything (300 less damage and 25 more energy for situational crowd control).

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Feedback, impressions without testing, thoughts based on original rhino version:

 

Iron skin's invincibility will only bring back its true spirit. Of course, from a pvp point of view invincibility is just cheating, but not from a pve point of view. I always strongly believe that this power should exist in two versions, invincibility for the pve portion, and damage caps, or reduction %s for the pvp.

 

Many may think that invincibility is wrong in a game, and I certainly agree with you, but seeing a kunai/despair, maxed out modded tearing down my iron skin with just 2 shots is depressing, and to some extent a joke of the ability itself. Similarly, for example in a T3 void, a lvl92 heavy, or a small group of lvl70 enemies will just tear me to shreds in seconds, if I pop out my skin to revive, or get in range to engage them. This observation is based on the fact that how quickly 1110 shields drain.

 

Rhino stomp originally was fine, but lacked force to it. And now we have a Vauban which can do what rhino does with 25 points less of power and significantly longer. Adding a timer which scales with ranks, 3,6,9,12 seconds, and adding an armor ignore value % to it will make it worthy to use. There is no need to inflict damage in Rhino Stomp, but instead make doing damage more possible.

 

I understand bosses will be abused by this, but that will have to be adjusted.

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While I like all the buffs for Rhino, I say his IS needs to get the damage reduction Rhino gets from his armor. That makes sense thematically and it would make the ability much stronger.

 

I am looking forward to using Rhino roar tho.  

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Take off all Redirection mods, and Vitality mods. Now you have lost less health than a SINGLE cast of Iron Skin gives you. Go to wave 100 on Xini, with 100 health and 100 shield, never taking a single point of damage. Then come back and tell me a buffer is worthless endgame. Until you do that, I won't be able to take any arguments to that effect seriously.

 

At wave 100 Xini a single hit will 1hko you, whether you have 100 health and 100 shields, or if you have max IS activated with max focus, max redirection, and max vitality. That's why it's worthless. This skill has absolutely zero scaling in its current state.

 

Also note, I can quite easily take zero damage on Xini. Infested cannot climb crates.

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