Not a fan of Zephyr? Perhaps I can help.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

Hey Tenno, I know a lot of folks dont do Zephyr, and hate her, but Ive noticed that few people really make use of her greatest strengths. I hope to help you with that.

 

[AdunSaveMe]

Mods or playstyles won't change fundamental design flaws, or the enjoyment people get out of awkward, clunky abilities.

By all means, share ideas, but mods and manoeuvres aren't really going to make many more people love Zephyr if they don't like her kit.

[Skaleek]

I want to like Zephyr, unfortunately most of her abilities are useless or outclassed. She basically just needs buffs and reworks across the board, and probably has needed the reworks more than volt, mag, ash, or nekros. (not saying those frames didnt need help at the time, they just didn't need it as much as Zeph)

[BiancaRoughfin]

Big Zephyr lover here. <3

Spoiler

I play Zephyr like 90% of the time,  she is the queen of mobility and has alot of utility for me. I dont mind other people not liking her and not playing her, in fact i like joining missions being the only Zephyr as i tend to get people very impressed. :P

In regards to her skills, only changes i think she needs is have her DiveBomb integrated to her Tailwind so aiming down and using the (1) skill would trigger DiveBomb then replace her (2) skill with something that granted her controlled fly-ability.

 

41 minutes ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Hey Tenno, I know a lot of folks dont do Zephyr, and hate her, but Ive noticed that few people really make use of her greatest strengths. I hope to help you with that.

Spoiler

 

 

Regarding this Video, i didnt like much his build tho he made it focused on Crowd Controlling with Dive Bomb which is interesting, i feel it sort of crippers the rest of her abilities and utility.

I made my build to maximize Duration wile keeping Power Strength, Power Range and Efficiency at or slightly higher than 100, this allows Tailwind to take me much further and faster, Turbulence lasts for almost a minute which allows me to use it to protect both teammates and mission objectives like consoles, capsules and Tenno informants, also allows for Hurricane to last much longer which is great for crowd controlling, be either throwing enemies off platforms and having them killed in the process or pinning them up against the ceiling so they become incapacitated.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Big Zephyr lover here. <3

  Reveal hidden contents

I play Zephyr like 90% of the time,  she is the queen of mobility and has alot of utility for me. I dont mind other people not liking her and not playing her, in fact i like joining missions being the only Zephyr as i tend to get people very impressed. :P

In regards to her skills, only changes i think she needs is have her DiveBomb integrated to her Tailwind so aiming down and using the (1) skill would trigger DiveBomb then replace her (2) skill with something that granted her controlled fly-ability.

 

Regarding this Video, i didnt like much his build tho he made it focused on Crowd Controlling with Dive Bomb which is interesting, i feel it sort of crippers the rest of her abilities and utility.

I made my build to maximize Duration wile keeping Power Strength, Power Range and Efficiency at or slightly higher than 100, this allows Tailwind to take me much further and faster, Turbulence lasts for almost a minute which allows me to use it to protect both teammates and mission objectives like consoles, capsules and Tenno informants, also allows for Hurricane to last much longer which is great for crowd controlling, be either throwing enemies off platforms and having them killed in the process or pinning them up against the ceiling so they become incapacitated.

 I understand. The main reason why I went for range, rather than power strength, is because power strength doesn't do much for her. Her damage is fairly lackLuster,  so I'm trying to go for her affects that don't depend on damage. 

 I try not to go overboard with duration because the only control you have with tornado is when you summon them. They tend to spawn either right on top of your head if no enemies are in range,  and they tend to Spohn right on top of enemies heads when you have a good amount of range. Maximizing duration, not that I'm saying you are, but maximizing it  reduces her effective range, so you have those unpredictable tornadoes that are going wherever they want for a very long time. 

 I feel that this leaves other players in a bind, because it keeps enemies plastered against ceilings and walls for a very long time, but won't necessarily kill them, even with a good amount of strength.  Effectively, they may be incapacitated while they are plastered against the ceiling, but it also makes it more difficult for squad mates, which is why she is unpopular to team up with as well.

 I feel that the best way to contribute to your team is to not maximize duration, so that you can use it during clutch moments and have a desired effect. 

 For more reliable crowd control, you can use blastoff or divebomb, and weapon damage is generally enough for her, especially since she can safely wield  self damaging weapons while other frames can't necessarily.

 

 

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

I want to like Zephyr, unfortunately most of her abilities are useless or outclassed. She basically just needs buffs and reworks across the board, and probably has needed the reworks more than volt, mag, ash, or nekros. (not saying those frames didnt need help at the time, they just didn't need it as much as Zeph)

 To say they are useless is patently false. All of her powers have a very good use, and to say that they are outclassed is merely a matter of perspective. 

 To say that her powers are outclassed is also fallacious. I could literally say the same of any power on any frame. When you compare two frames, or rather when you isolate one of the powers from one frame and compare it to a power from another frame, you're disregarding the  context of their kit. A lot of powers in this game really suck, but the synergize very well with the kit. 

I guarantee you, if you name a frame, I could name a power that out classes all four of their's. of course, it's kind of intellectually dishonest to take anything out of context like that, but to say that of Zephyr, or her powers, or  The powers of any frame for that matter, is like saying that a particular letter in the alphabet is useless, while disregarding how it works with other letters.

 

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Mods or playstyles won't change fundamental design flaws, or the enjoyment people get out of awkward, clunky abilities.

By all means, share ideas, but mods and manoeuvres aren't really going to make many more people love Zephyr if they don't like her kit.

 The  only design flaw is making divebomb and tailwind separate powers. None of her abilities are that awkward or clunky, especially for a player that knows the parkour system even reasonably well. 

and also, I disagree about mods and maneuvers. They integrate and synergies well with her kit.  To remain the aerial bummer that she is, no one needs to rely on dashing at high-speed's anymore, but could we instead supplement her passive and her parkour with the fast moving abilities. Maneuvers makes her much simpler to use, and it gives her  A place where her abilities excel.

[Skaleek]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

 To say they are useless is patently false. All of her powers have a very good use, and to say that they are outclassed is merely a matter of perspective. 

 To say that her powers are outclassed is also fallacious. I could literally say the same of any power on any frame. When you compare two frames, or rather when you isolate one of the powers from one frame and compare it to a power from another frame, you're disregarding the  context of their kit. A lot of powers in this game really suck, but the synergize very well with the kit. 

I guarantee you, if you name a frame, I could name a power that out classes all four of their's. of course, it's kind of intellectually dishonest to take anything out of context like that, but to say that of Zephyr, or her powers, or  The powers of any frame for that matter, is like saying that a particular letter in the alphabet is useless, while disregarding how it works with other letters.

 

Yeah, Can you?  What outclasses Chroma's Vex armor? What outclasses Loki's invisibility? What outclasses Trinity's energy vampire? Frost's Snowglobe? Nova's Molecular Prime? Equinox's Maim? In my opinion, Divebomb and Tailwind are fairly useless abilities in that I'd rather use my energy to channel my melee or save it as a healthpool for QT. The abilities are useless because they have no realistic use. Can you use them? Sure. Should you? No. They're bad. They need love. The tornadoes can be nice aoe CC, but they're RNG based, and when you pair RNG with CC you get an unreliable CC, which, in my opinion, sucks. Also, Her turbulence (her best ability, feel free to tell me why im wrong) is an ability that falls off at later levels for no apparent rhyme or reason. As grineer accuracy goes up, it literally begins to ignore her turbulence. That sucks. It makes shatter shield outclass turbulence. I want them to remove this ridiculous falloff. Why should turbulence be less effective against a level 100 grineer than a level 1? No other defensive ability suffers from this problem.

Zephyr suffers from having an incomplete kit of abilities. Her tailwind more often then not if you've modded for duration pushes you outside the bounds of the level and gives you a black screen and tp back to where you were originally. Her ult is a CC that's entirely RNG based, making it unreliable. Tailwind and divebomb should be put into one ability, her turbulence moved to 2, her tornadoes moved to 3, and she should get some sort of flight mode as a 4. This is all opinion based, obviously, but so is yours so saying I'm wrong doesnt make sense. There is no wrong or right, there is only opinion.

Saying her abilities are outclassed is based upon my experience playing Zephyr, alongside playing other warframes. When i say shes outclassed I mean i can pick any ability of hers and pick one other ability that is almost a direct upgrade of that ability. Minus divebomb cause thats basically half an ability. At least if tailwind and divebomb were one ability (that should also be buffed as awhole, Im thinking divebomb aoe range should be increased 3x or 4x.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Skaleek

[(XBOX)Deflinek]

I have to admit I'm one of those who rarely use Zephyr, however she was of great help when I got "3 headshot kills in single aim-glide" riven challenge. I didn't see your video yet as I'm at work, but I will because I like to explore less popular frames and see how far I can go with them.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

I guarantee you, if you name a frame, I could name a power that out classes all four of their's.

I don't think so, and that's in my opinion problem with Zephyr. There is no replacement for Frost's Snow Globe, Nova's Molecular Prime (both slow and speed) or Excalibur's Radial Blind. And in my opinion that's why she is not so popular. She is not "one trick pony" that is relatively easy to mod and play. And it's not a bad thing at all!

Also "different handling" adds to that as players (me included) that try to use her get frustrated because of missed jumps and landings. With every other frame I try, when I do bullet-jump I can tell beforehand where I will land and whenever I can make it across any chasm. With Zephyr I often end up hitting a wall above the door wasting time to get to ground (again slower than other frames) and walk instead of fluent parkour.

To sum it up - thanks for your effort, I'll personally watch your video and give her another try, but for sure she is not a frame for everyone.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

21 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Yeah, Can you?  What outclasses Chroma's Vex armor? What outclasses Loki's invisibility? What outclasses Trinity's energy vampire?In my opinion, Divebomb and Tailwind are fairly useless abilities in that I'd rather use my energy to channel my melee or save it as a healthpool for QT. The abilities are useless because they have no realistic use. Can you use them? Sure. Should you? No. They're bad. They need love. The tornadoes can be nice aoe CC, but they're RNG based, and when you pair RNG with CC you get an unreliable CC, which, in my opinion, sucks. Also, Her turbulence (her best ability, feel free to tell me why im wrong) is an ability that falls off at later levels for no apparent rhyme or reason. As grineer accuracy goes up, it literally begins to ignore her turbulence. That sucks. It makes shatter shield outclass turbulence. I want them to remove this ridiculous falloff. Why should turbulence be less effective against a level 100 grineer than a level 1? No other defensive ability suffers from this problem.

Zephyr suffers from having an incomplete kit of abilities. Her tailwind more often then not if you've modded for duration pushes you outside the bounds of the level and gives you a black screen and tp back to where you were originally. Her ult is a CC that's entirely RNG based, making it unreliable. Tailwind and divebomb should be put into one ability, her turbulence moved to 2, her tornadoes moved to 3, and she should get some sort of flight mode as a 4. This is all opinion based, obviously, but so is yours so saying I'm wrong doesnt make sense. There is no wrong or right, there is only opinion.

Vex armor?  Shoot, at base, Link outclasses it in terms of survivability, and even maximized with Ice Chroma, using elemental Ward, it is outclassed by Blessing and Link. Taking 27% of 25% damage totally outclassed Vex.

Energy Vampre can be outperformed by a focus school, or even a pizza, and is barely needed if running efficiency. Even rage performs as well, depending on the frame.

Lokis invisibility?  It is a classed by Ash because he's comes with a forced stagger, prowl is better because it is permanent if she wants it to be.  Then there's the fact that a dog can outperform the duration, and of course, the fact the the most clunky non stealth frame can outperform him with naramon.

 So yeah. Any frame. 

 

 This is a game that is heavily based on math. 2+2 will always equal 4.  4×4 will always equal 16. No amount of opinion can change this.  That being said, opinion counts extremely little where math is concerned, if at all. Math is absolute truth. It does not change.  Saying you're wrong just because I  disagree with you wouldn't make sense. Saying you're wrong because objective reality and math disagree with you is plenty sensical.

The math of the scenario is, there are ways to make her more reliable,  and as far as crowd control is concerned, everybody loves ragdolling enemies When Mag, Rhino, Atlas, or Banshee do it, or when using the Jat Kittag or Sonicor. KD does very well in the hands of Oberon, and many of his haters even admit the utility in his ability to KD enemies. 

 Her kit goes very well together. I do agree that tailwind and divebomb should be made into an amalgam, but she doesn't need a flight mode. It's already really easy for her to stay in the air, and perpetuating it Could become unbalancing. 

I appreciate your input though

 

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

36 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Deflinek said:

I have to admit I'm one of those who rarely use Zephyr, however she was of great help when I got "3 headshot kills in single aim-glide" riven challenge. I didn't see your video yet as I'm at work, but I will because I like to explore less popular frames and see how far I can go with them.

I don't think so, and that's in my opinion problem with Zephyr. There is no replacement for Frost's Snow Globe, Nova's Molecular Prime (both slow and speed) or Excalibur's Radial Blind. And in my opinion that's why she is not so popular. She is not "one trick pony" that is relatively easy to mod and play. And it's not a bad thing at all!

Also "different handling" adds to that as players (me included) that try to use her get frustrated because of missed jumps and landings. With every other frame I try, when I do bullet-jump I can tell beforehand where I will land and whenever I can make it across any chasm. With Zephyr I often end up hitting a wall above the door wasting time to get to ground (again slower than other frames) and walk instead of fluent parkour.

To sum it up - thanks for your effort, I'll personally watch your video and give her another try, but for sure she is not a frame for everyone.

Snow Globe, Molecular Prime, Radial Blind. 

Got it.

Whether you like Limbo or not, Cataclysm is not based on Health, so it can deny more damage. It will last just as long, whether the enemies are level1, or 15k. It may not have the slow, but it does have energy, and can be fired into by squadmates when in the rift, providing protection in, and outside, for the tactically minded.

Radial Blind is outperformed by Prism, bc it can be set off anywhere, and has a better range. Even Oberon outperforms Radial blind, using Reckoning,  which produces a radial blind from every enemy caught. Only it also confuses enemies, which reduces their accuracy, it deals damage to them, and it knocks them down. Outclassed. 

Molecular Prime is easily outperformed by Creeping Terrify, because the armor loss will easily exceed the damage multiplier at higher level content. 

 

 Get the point? What out classes what is merely a matter of perspective. It's also a matter of scenario. 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[(XBOX)Deflinek]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Whether you like Limbo or not, Cataclysm is not based on Health, so it can deny more damage. It will last just as long, whether the enemies are level1, or 15k. It may not have the slow, but it does have energy, and can be fired into by squadmates when in the rift, providing protection in, and outside, for the tactically minded.

Radial Blind is outperformed by Prism, bc it can be set off anywhere, and has a better range. Even Oberon outperforms Radial blind, using Reckoning,  which produces a radial blind from every enemy caught. Only it also confuses enemies, which reduces their accuracy, it deals damage to them, and it knocks them down. Outclassed. 

Molecular Prime is easily outperformed by Creeping Terrify, because the armor loss will easily exceed the damage multiplier at higher level content. 

Hahaha :) OK so last round - Cataclysm, Prism and Creeping Terrify :P

On more serious note I don't agree with Creeping Terrify simply because of range. The same will go for Peaceful Provocation - both slows are good but won't let you win Sortie 3 interception solo (Ivara's Prowl + Noise Arrow however will).

 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Ok I have to stop you at 5:41.

You've never used the Zephyr Tonkor build before.

Get 180 pwr Str. Intensify and Transient. Put on Jetstream augment. 

Put terminal velocity on Tonkor and then ry shooting from the air with Zephyr.

 

And when you're done some feedback would be appreciated 

 

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

26 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Deflinek said:

Hahaha :) OK so last round - Cataclysm, Prism and Creeping Terrify :P

On more serious note I don't agree with Creeping Terrify simply because of range. The same will go for Peaceful Provocation - both slows are good but won't let you win Sortie 3 interception solo (Ivara's Prowl + Noise Arrow however will).

 

 There's so much nuance in this that the chain can go on forever. It can go in the opposite direction  depending on the purpose you're using them for. Thing is, there's not really anyone best at anything. 

Cataclysm? Shoot, Cataclysm is outclassed by electric shield. It's portable, enhances damage, stuns enemies if you run shock through it, etc.

Prism is outclassed By Reckoning which also irradiated enemies and Knocks them down.

Creeping Terrify is outclassed by Polarize, which can strip armor off of level 100 units with a casting or two, on a much larger range.

In response to your serious note: Creeping Terrify is much more spammable and eats armor for breakfast. Not only that, it also keeps enemies from attacking you, so between that and the slow, it's far superior.

As for Sorties, that's debatable. I disagree with your assumption that they couldn't handle a Sortie. I mean, what mission type? What faction? What level are you and what mods do you have equipped? There is more nuance in this game than people are willing to admit. But more so I disagree with the mindset. I could say that Rhino sucks because he doesn't do Spy missions well, but that's not really what he is built for. 

Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid. 

I wouldn't tank with Loki, I wouldn't run Ayatans with Frost, and I wouldn't DPS with Zephyr, because it's just not their purpose. 

Therein is the largest problem with our hatred of various frames. We try to compare powers between frames, as if their kit isn't unique. 

The reason we keep isolating abilities is the reason why we keep having to rework frames. Saryn had one ability that just annihilated everything, and unfortunately, the way it was modded to be optimal made her other three abilities completely useless. We keep minmaxing for one ability, and I think this is a remnant of having to mod in your own powers. 

 

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Ok I have to stop you at 5:41.

You've never used the Zephyr Tonkor build before.

Get 180 pwr Str. Intensify and Transient. Put on Jetstream augment. 

Put terminal velocity on Tonkor and then ry shooting from the air with Zephyr.

 

And when you're done some feedback would be appreciated 

 

I've never used it before?

Awfully presumptuous. 

If you don't hit enemies with it, it has a delay before it explodes. Not so with detonation on impact or at will detonation.  

 What you were talking about is a combination that makes it somewhat viable. What I am looking for is something that is optimal.  I'm not saying it's a bad weapon, I'm just saying that, if you're already going to go to great lengths to make the weapon work out, you might as well just go for a weapon that already synergizes with her well, without QOL mods.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

I've never used it before?

Awfully presumptuous. 

If you don't hit enemies with it, it has a delay before it explodes. Not so with detonation on impact or at will detonation.  

 What you were talking about is a combination that makes it somewhat viable. What I am looking for is something that is optimal.  I'm not saying it's a bad weapon, I'm just saying that, if you're already going to go to great lengths to make the weapon work out, you might as well just go for a weapon that already synergizes with her well, without QOL mods.

Somewhat viable?

What's more viable than a tonkor? Especially from the air that explodes on impact to any surface? That alleviates all aiming required and gives Zephyr a utility that no other frame can imitate with is whats considered the most powerful weapon available in game. Zarr doesn't even compare.

If that isn't synergy, I don't know what is. 

I'm not here to argue with you but from your video it just seemed like you just didn't know. 

When you discuss what is optimal and also try to emphasize that staying in the air is key to Zephyr, the most effective way, to do so is with an AoE weapon. There's no AoE more effective than Tonkor. Perhaps Simulor.

[Skaleek]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Vex armor?  Shoot, at base, Link outclasses it in terms of survivability, and even maximized with Ice Chroma, using elemental Ward, it is outclassed by Blessing and Link. Taking 27% of 25% damage totally outclassed Vex.

Energy Vampre can be outperformed by a focus school, or even a pizza, and is barely needed if running efficiency. Even rage performs as well, depending on the frame.

Lokis invisibility?  It is a classed by Ash because he's comes with a forced stagger, prowl is better because it is permanent if she wants it to be.  Then there's the fact that a dog can outperform the duration, and of course, the fact the the most clunky non stealth frame can outperform him with naramon.

 So yeah. Any frame. 

 

 This is a game that is heavily based on math. 2+2 will always equal 4.  4×4 will always equal 16. No amount of opinion can change this.  That being said, opinion counts extremely little where math is concerned, if at all. Math is absolute truth. It does not change.  Saying you're wrong just because I  disagree with you wouldn't make sense. Saying you're wrong because objective reality and math disagree with you is plenty sensical.

The math of the scenario is, there are ways to make her more reliable,  and as far as crowd control is concerned, everybody loves ragdolling enemies When Mag, Rhino, Atlas, or Banshee do it, or when using the Jat Kittag or Sonicor. KD does very well in the hands of Oberon, and many of his haters even admit the utility in his ability to KD enemies. 

 Her kit goes very well together. I do agree that tailwind and divebomb should be made into an amalgam, but she doesn't need a flight mode. It's already really easy for her to stay in the air, and perpetuating it Could become unbalancing. 

I appreciate your input though

 

No, energy vampire is not outclassed by zenurik, and you explicitly stated you would find another Warframe ability kit that outclasses it. Fun fact, there isnt one, EV is the epitome of energy restoration and nothing even comes close to it. Vex armor provides way more mitigation than either blessing or link. Both of them are capped at 75%, vex armor puts you well into the 90%+ arena. Thats a fact. You're just talking. You say the math supports it but its just fluff.

So no. You want to talk cold, hard math? Shatter shield is effectively a direct upgrade of turbulence. You're stating that i'm wrong mathematically. So prove it. Explain to me how any of these damage mitigating abilities can be outperformed by turbulence, with math. You know why i know you can't? Because it doesnt. Plain and simple. Shatter shield is a 95% reduction to all projectiles. Turbulence is....???? Test it in a high level sortie and i 100% guarantee you it is not equivalent of 95% DR.

Mathematically speaking, turbulence provides an evasion % that actually scales down as enemies gain levels. If you go into a sortie with shatter shield and I go into a sortie with turbulence, who's going down first? Do the math. Shatter shield outclasses turbulence, straight up.

Ridiculous. Her abilities are outclassed and useless. Outclassed: Turbulence/Tornadoes/Dive Bomb. Useless: Tailwind. You claim her role is mobility? I claim that i will race you as a Rhino Prime with iron skin and get through a level faster. Let's race, I'm more than willing to put up.
 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Skaleek

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Somewhat viable?

What's more viable than a tonkor? Especially from the air that explodes on impact to any surface? That alleviates all aiming required and gives Zephyr a utility that no other frame can imitate with is whats considered the most powerful weapon available in game. Zarr doesn't even compare.

If that isn't synergy, I don't know what is. 

I'm not here to argue with you but from your video it just seemed like you just didn't know. 

When you discuss what is optimal and also try to emphasize that staying in the air is key to Zephyr, the most effective way, to do so is with an AoE weapon. There's no AoE more effective than Tonkor. Perhaps Simulor.

 It functions the same with her as it does with any other frame though. The added elevation is not beneficial since it doesn't South damage. It's not going to be as accurate as other weapons either. Massive spread projectiles like the Angstrum are great bc you can hit a wide area with the enhanced projectile speed. The same goes for precision rockets like the Ogris. 

Tonkor doesnt blow up on impact, unless it hits a target. You miss, you may have wasted a shot.  There's not much use in an area of affect weapon if you still have to hit precisely with it to avoid error. 

I'll agree that there isn't a weapon the deals more damage, but not that it is more effective. It's a small clip, doesn't go indefinitely last I checked, and you can't afford to miss, like you can with other blast or aoe weapons.

it's not like I'm saying it's a bad weapon. They're just better weapons in her hands Than the Tonkor is. if a weapon is a precision weapon, like Tonkor, then it's not as viable as ones with a larger margin for error. 

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

42 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

No, energy vampire is not outclassed by zenurik, and you explicitly stated you would find another Warframe ability kit that outclasses it. You're just trying to beat around the bush. So no. You want to talk cold, hard math? Shatter shield is effectively a direct upgrade of turbulence. You're stating that i'm wrong mathematically. So prove it. Explain to me how any of these damage mitigating abilities can be outperformed by turbulence, with math. You know why i know you can't? Because it doesnt. Plain and simple.

Ooh. I stated explicitly? Fair enough.  No other frame directly produces energy. 

 Except for every frame with Zenurik equipped. 

We will have disagree on whether it's outclassed by it or not. Not only does Zenurik give you rapid energy, positively effect energy orbs, and enhance movements speed, but it also disables a lot of enemies, but it also gives them their own miniature Magnetize. Or you can just get a large sum of energy really quick, and CC a single target.

Edit: In addition, the CC is a one man version of Silence, which effects a plethora of enemies in the same way, sans the energy. It's not always in every aspect that a power is outclassed, but it's always going to be in some way outclassed, so long as there are comparable powers.

Shatter shield is, by no means, a direct upgrade. That would imply that Zephyr mitigates damage by percentage. With Range, she effectively has the same level of defense, making 100% a possibility with maximum, provided you remain airborne to avoid blasts from reflective missiles. There is no cap to the amount of damage that Zephyr can divert with Turbulence. Is 100% not better than 95%?

All it requires for 100% mitigation is to remain distant enough from the blast of AOEs that you have deflected. Sure, it's reliant on a condition, just like a 95% shatter shield requires power strength mods.

How you get that 100% may be different than how you get that 95% but it's still 100%.

EDIT: I don't actually see where I said you were wrong mathematically. I see where I said your opinions and preference don't matter in a game based on Math, which is a bit different.

Edited December 14, 2016 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[Skaleek]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Ooh. I stated explicitly? Fair enough.  No other frame directly produces energy. 

 Except for every frame with Zenurik equipped. 

We will have disagree on whether it's outclassed by it or not. Not only does Zenurik give you rapid energy, positively effect energy orbs, and enhance movements speed, but it also disables a lot of enemies, but it also gives them their own miniature Magnetize. Or you can just get a large sum of energy really quick, and CC a single target.

 

Shatter shield is, by no means, a direct upgrade. That would imply that Zephyr mitigates damage by percentage. With Range, she effectively has the same level of defense, making 100% a possibility with maximum, provided you remain airborne to avoid blasts from reflective missiles. There is no cap to the amount of damage that Zephyr can divert with Turbulence. Is 100% not better than 95%?

All it requires for 100% mitigation is to remain distant enough from the blast of AOEs that you have deflected. Sure, it's reliant on a condition, just like a 95% shatter shield requires power strength mods.

How you get that 100% may be different than how you get that 95% but it's still 100%.

 

It's not 100% mitigation, I suggest you go into the simacularum and do some testing with grineer at high levels. I've had this debate with other people armor mitigation and evasion are both forms of DR.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Skaleek

[Etharien]

I'm not sure i get how this video helps zephyr's kit. It still underperforms and is terrible compared to other frames.... I can do anything (aside from gliding in the air as it's unnecessary) you did in that video with less hassle, and probably faster. Zephyr is in dire need of a rework ever since parkour 2.0. Her 1 and 2 are archaic, and were never really that effective except for going from point a -> b (tailwind) and divebomb .... showed up. As skaleek said, turbulence is outclassed by many other self buff abilities. And tornado, well  a CC that is RNG dependent is quite annoying, not to mention trying to hit the ragdolled mobs in it.

[Slaviar]

For me zephyr is one trick pony. Her only good skill is Turbulence which is indeed very powerful but bad part is she's still vulnerable to AoE and she's fragile.

Tail Wind was made obsolete by bullet jump, Dive Bomb is average at best and Tornado is way too random to be good. It also blocks gunfire and I don't like that it ejects mobs after a while.

I like playing her but she is behind other frames. A lot.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Energy Vampre can be outperformed by a focus school, or even a pizza, and is barely needed if running efficiency. Even rage performs as well, depending on the frame.

EV is not reliant on equipment and unlike Zenurik isn't nullified by Parasitics. Rage falls off quickly on many frames.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Lokis invisibility?  It is a classed by Ash because he's comes with a forced stagger, prowl is better because it is permanent if she wants it to be.  Then there's the fact that a dog can outperform the duration, and of course, the fact the the most clunky non stealth frame can outperform him with naramon.

Ash's shorter and Naramon requires you to melee constantly. I don't use Huras' cloak so I can't really say anything about it but I thought attacking or casting ability breaks it...?

2 hours ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Whether you like Limbo or not, Cataclysm is not based on Health, so it can deny more damage. It will last just as long, whether the enemies are level1, or 15k. It may not have the slow, but it does have energy, and can be fired into by squadmates when in the rift, providing protection in, and outside, for the tactically minded.

But you can't shoot nullifier while in rift. He'll happily jog until he touches Cataclysm. And unlike Snow Globe Cataclysm doesn't have static range.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Radial Blind is outperformed by Prism, bc it can be set off anywhere, and has a better range. Even Oberon outperforms Radial blind, using Reckoning,  which produces a radial blind from every enemy caught. Only it also confuses enemies, which reduces their accuracy, it deals damage to them, and it knocks them down. Outclassed. 

Wrong. RB has exactly same blind range and duration as Prism but much better cast time. And Reckoning's blind has very short range.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Molecular Prime is easily outperformed by Creeping Terrify, because the armor loss will easily exceed the damage multiplier at higher level content.

I wonder why people don't use Terrify more often. Even though MP will outclass it if team uses CP mobs won't attack at all.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

Creeping Terrify is outclassed by Polarize, which can strip armor off of level 100 units with a casting or two, on a much larger range.

Definitely not one or two casts. It takes several to strip armor off level 100 heavies.

 

Also, In your video you said something about Bane mods. What exactly did you mean?

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

59 minutes ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:

 It functions the same with her as it does with any other frame though. The added elevation is not beneficial since it doesn't South damage. It's not going to be as accurate as other weapons either. Massive spread projectiles like the Angstrum are great bc you can hit a wide area with the enhanced projectile speed. The same goes for precision rockets like the Ogris. 

Tonkor doesnt blow up on impact, unless it hits a target. You miss, you may have wasted a shot.  There's not much use in an area of affect weapon if you still have to hit precisely with it to avoid error. 

I'll agree that there isn't a weapon the deals more damage, but not that it is more effective. It's a small clip, doesn't go indefinitely last I checked, and you can't afford to miss, like you can with other blast or aoe weapons.

it's not like I'm saying it's a bad weapon. They're just better weapons in her hands Than the Tonkor is. if a weapon is a precision weapon, like Tonkor, then it's not as viable as ones with a larger margin for error. 

No bro, it does explode on impact of any surface when you use the mods I've explained. 

You happen to play on PS4 as well. I'll show you.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

1 hour ago, Slaviar said:

For me zephyr is one trick pony. Her only good skill is Turbulence which is indeed very powerful but bad part is she's still vulnerable to AoE and she's fragile.

Tail Wind was made obsolete by bullet jump, Dive Bomb is average at best and Tornado is way too random to be good. It also blocks gunfire and I don't like that it ejects mobs after a while.

I like playing her but she is behind other frames. A lot.

 

EV is not reliant on equipment and unlike Zenurik isn't nullified by Parasitics. Rage falls off quickly on many frames.

Ash's shorter and Naramon requires you to melee constantly. I don't use Huras' cloak so I can't really say anything about it but I thought attacking or casting ability breaks it...?

But you can't shoot nullifier while in rift. He'll happily jog until he touches Cataclysm. And unlike Snow Globe Cataclysm doesn't have static range.

Wrong. RB has exactly same blind range and duration as Prism but much better cast time. And Reckoning's blind has very short range.

I wonder why people don't use Terrify more often. Even though MP will outclass it if team uses CP mobs won't attack at all.

Definitely not one or two casts. It takes several to strip armor off level 100 heavies.

 

Also, In your video you said something about Bane mods. What exactly did you mean?

 I've done it into castings with polarize. It won't strip the heaviest that quickly, but it will do so to the majority of n

 A one trick pony is a pony that is only capable of one trick. She is capable of more than one trick. Just because you only use her for one trick does not make her one. 

 Tailwind was not made obsolete buy anything. You cannot infinitely spam bullet jump. You can, on the other hand, infinitely spam tailwind. do you also keep in mind that it's not some either/or scenario.  Zephyr can use both, and rotate between the two. 

 Rage  never falls off. It's energy according to the percentile of damage that you've taken. It's literally impossible for it to fall off, because enemy damage never falls off. 

 I stand corrected about the blind from prism. I guess I got the range of the lasers Mixed up.  There is a tactical advantage to being able to blind from the sky though.   As for reckoning having a smaller radius, that's not entirely accurate. The blind is dealt to enemies from enemies. If you're modeling for range at all, you will have a decent blind radius. At maximum range, each enemy caught within the 37 m radius is going to admit their own at 10 m radius blind. With enough enemies present, you could effectively have a 94 m diameter blind.   Of course, I recognize that all of the same mods would produce a larger blind from Excalibur, but that wasn't the point of me saying it out classes it. It out classes it in the diverse utility provided. Radial blind does not produce knock downs. Reckoning does. radial blind does not irradiate enemies and reduce their accuracy. Reckoning does. Radial blind  does not produce health orbs on enemies that it kills. Reckoning does.  I'll take a slightly smaller range, when I have guaranteed knock downs, radiation status,  and produce additional health. 

 The use of corrosive projection doesn't make it out class terrify. It emulates it. That also takes a full squad to remove its utility in armor stripping, of course, molecular prime does outclass it versus anything without armor.

Bane modsproduce very good results because it increases damage  according to the final damage calculated in a multiplicative fashion. it's actually a very smart thing to do, using that over IPS mods or negative accuracy/speed corrupted mods, as well as several other mods that people kind of cling to. 

that's the context LOL. The reason why I used it as a reference in the video, is because in the same fashion that a multiplicative bonus  enhances damage with bane mods, it also functions the same way with aviator and agility drift. 

considering she has the ability to barely be hit, if at all, immediately cutting 32% of the final product of enemy damaged dealt to her, while completely disregarding any damage bonuses or weaknesses that the enemies damage may have, is powerful for the same reasons that a Bain mod is powerful. 

Does that clear things up? I mentioned it because I've seen people who swear by Bain mods, but they laugh at aviator, even though it's functionally similar.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

No bro, it does explode on impact of any surface when you use the mods I've explained. 

You happen to play on PS4 as well. I'll show you.

 I've certainly been mistaken in the past. 

 

I'll be happy to give it a try, and get back to you. What was the mod setup?

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

2 hours ago, Skaleek said:

It's not 100% mitigation, I suggest you go into the simacularum and do some testing with grineer at high levels. I've had this debate with other people armor mitigation and evasion are both forms of DR.

I wasn't even talking about evasion or even armor mitigation. I was talking about plain old Turbulence with max range. 

 It may not have any properties that actually mitigate damage, but effectively accomplishes the same thing, by making at nigh impossible to actually land a hit on Zephyr

Edited December 15, 2016 by (PS4)Fenrushak