Mag Now Lower Than Usless Tier (Patch 8.3)

[Mietz]

When we, the Mag players, asked for a Mag rework we didn't ask for everything to be made AOE.

We didn't want more DPS or easier usability.

 

What we wanted are useful abilities that do not blow and are not situational for only ONE very specific situation but are used in moment to moment gameplay.

 

Pull wasn't S#&$ because it didn't pull more than one enemy, it was S#&$ because it did so -inconsistently- and left the Mag open for -too @(*()$ long-. Pull sometimes did not pull the target all the way, sometimes enemies got stuck on pebbles and other obstructions. It didn't even do physical damage from collision, so one couldn't smack an enemy repeatedly against a railing until it died.

The animation took for @(*()$ ever and left you entirely open to attack, it only became recently useful with the Kogake ground finisher as the heavier blunt weapons didn't animate fast enough for the ability CC.

 

These are the problems of Pull.

 

These problems were not solved by making it cAOE and removing the ability to target allies.

In fact, you have now created a situation where Mag pulls in enemies indiscriminately and hence took control away from the player. Imagine pulling Toxic ancients by accident, since there isn't any UI indicator how big the cone is or is not.

Thanks DE-Steve, we can finally kill ourselves faster. It's what I always wanted.

Yay.

 

Known bugs after the "buff": 

Enemies do -not- get pulled but just knocked over.

All other bugs persist.

 

Shield Polarize's problem isn't that it was single-target (since it already did do -feedback- when put on shield-ospreys). Its problem was that its DAMAGE was a FLAT VALUE that was OUTSCALED by enemy HP pools in ENDGAME, making the ability entirely pointless.

Not to mention it requires SHIELDS to be there in the first place, making it situational AND bad.

 

These are the problems of Shield Polarize.

 

Theses problems were not solved by making the ability AOE. The damage post wave 15-20 still blows. This ability has no value in Void or end-game missions. Its damage still blows. It adds nothing to the gameplay.

 

Known bugs after the "buff": 

Sometimes does not do feedback.

 

Bullet Attractor blew because it effectively reduced the DPS by denying aiming for weakspots. The ability had only -one- use and thats specific bosses, during regular gameplay the ability was uninteresting and a waste of a slot. Especially on Endless defense or Void missions this ability had no value.

 

These were the problems of Bullet Attractor.

 

These problems were not solved by adding a "bomb" to the ability. 300 damage of AOE can't kill anything post lvl 20, it does nothing to add utility or worth to the ability. I will not spam Bullet Attractor to add 300 dmg on enemy death, that is entirely unreliable and -still- doesn't let me actually shoot weakpoints on the enemy.

 

Known bugs after the "buff": 

With max Stretch Mod the bubble is enormous -> When inside the bubble the attraction does not work

Sometimes even outside the bubble the attraction does not work (with weapons that should)

Sometimes projectiles do no damage at all even when shot directly at the target inside the bubble.

 

Crush...you didn't change Crush, thank god.

 

Dear DE, you made it worse, please stop.

 

PS: DE-Steve pls go.

PPS: LOL J/K UGAIZ

 

Stickied Mag 8.3 Feedback Thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/73286-mag-83-feedback-thread/

Edited July 5, 2013 by Mietz

[CheeseHasLeafs]

PS: DE-Steve pls go.

I hope that was sarcastic. Because that was harsh, man. 

[liavalenth]

A bit too much anger, and due to that your point was made poorly. However, you are correct in most of your findings. I have to say, adding an AoE damage to Bullet Attractor could have been really good...if it had been 1000 damage or something. As is, Mag did not get enough better to matter, just changed.

[Mietz]

I hope that was sarcastic. Because that was harsh, man. 

 

Yes, I'm harsh because I'm goddamn tired of changes being introduced that make no @(*()$ lick of sense to anyone that would think about them for more than 10 seconds.

 

I mean I've read the changes, thought of ways that they are going to blow, logged on, confirmed it by running 2-3x Xini and that was that.

 

I don't even know how these changes made it past the "i have an idea" stage, they are objectively horrible and anyone that plays the game can immediately see that.

[SabreUr]

Being a $&*^ does not make any good to your cause. And if you have to be a $&*^ at least get you facts straight, Steve is not one responsible for skills design.

[J.C.Santos]

Just close this thread before it becames bitter.

[X3Evanescence]

Watch your language. You can be harsh all you want, but this is too much rage and hostility. Unacceptable. Can you please, like chill for a second and try to address this issue in a calm and constructive manner? You are only going to land yourself into more trouble by doing this.

[X3Evanescence]

Just close this thread before it becames bitter.

It is already bitter.

[Desauron]

pull + ember overheat or world in flames = sweet

pull + other ultimate skill = sweet

We got trinity for aoe heal and mag for aoe shield repair whats wrong in this?

Bullet atractor becoming a bomb is a nice improvement, doing a damage that doesnt instant kill isnt a reason to start hating, what do you want? to be like Nyx absorb?

This proves again that no matter how much you get, you will still not be happy...

Edited July 5, 2013 by Desauron

[SabreUr]

#*($%%@y F*** F*** F*** &#! C*** @(&*@#$# $#*(@ $&*^ S#&$ 

 

Keep it up, and you may earn 3 days vacation for weekend...

[Argoms]

It's threads like this that've made me effectively stop looking at the forums and want to hate this game.

 

Not because of the tone of the OP, but because they're right. Look past the bitterness, sarcasm, and anger, and you see that he hasn't said anything wrong (except for blaming steve). On top of that, the people defending DE are the ones actually providing crappy reasons or dodging the question/attacking the tone (which I guess is appropriate, but still doens't adress the points made).

Edited July 5, 2013 by Argoms

[iamcr0w]

Interesting perspective... negative approach though... 
maybe there's a reason for the uncomfortable changes... 
i can see a combo of 'pull' + 'crush'... what about you guys?... what can you see?.. 
 

[Mietz]

Interesting perspective... negative approach though... 

maybe there's a reason for the uncomfortable changes... 

i can see a combo of 'pull' + 'crush'... what about you guys?... what can you see?.. 

 

 

A combo of pull and crush = 125 energy. Vauban can Bastille for 75 to the same effect.

Pull + any other ultimate is exactly as good, this just means that pull is replacable, its $&*&*#(%& to have an ability that only works with another ability to be useful.

[ValhaHazred]

A combo of pull and crush = 125 energy. Vauban can Bastille for 75 to the same effect.

Pull + any other ultimate is exactly as good, this just means that pull is replacable, its $&*&*#(%& to have an ability that only works with another ability to be useful.

Pull+Crush would kill dozens of enemies for 125 (Barring Mods). Bastille just holds them in place, so 75+bullets and it's placement dependant (Did you mean Vortex? Pull+Crush would still have longer range and be faster).

Pull can get a pack of enemies off a teammate or pod, bring enemies into an ongoing power, and it stuns briefly.

I wouldn't mind if it still knocked down, but that might be OP.

[10ner]

I can absolutely understand the anger involved.

 

I guess most players wouldnt have minded waiting till update 9 for the old frames getting their reworks done. But instead of a proper mindful rework, to bring them on par with other frames we get this mediocre rushed result with new bugs.

 

If this is considered BETA then the playerbase should have a vote in the future rework process. Although there are different opinions how powers should be buffed or fixed, I think it would be rather easy to find a consens.

For me the way it happened now was a big FAIL.

[ReiganCross]

-1 Because that was a load of crap.

Multi-pull is now a @(*()$ shotgun magnet when talking about killing lots of thigs, and together with the exploding bullet attractor and crush, she now is like the awesome crowd control that i think they tried to make her. Shield Polarize was always only good to restore Pod's Shield anyways, we have like 2 class of enemies with shield in the entire game so far, Grineer Heavy and Corpus Tech (MOA doesn't count, their shield dies when you poke them.) And even then, the ammount of shield they get is laughable, this ability was bad and will continue to be bad because it focus on shields. And Bullet Attractor?... Ok, Bullet Attractor became even crappier since it now barely sets a bubble on the guy and no longer protects us from the enemies own shots. They essentially changed the ability from Radial Javeling focus to an unreliable bomb upon death. Still, extra AoE goes well with how Mag currently is, so no real complains here.

[Mietz]

Pull+Crush would kill dozens of enemies for 125 (Barring Mods). Bastille just holds them in place, so 75+bullets and it's placement dependant (Did you mean Vortex? Pull+Crush would still have longer range and be faster).

Pull can get a pack of enemies off a teammate or pod, bring enemies into an ongoing power, and it stuns briefly.

I wouldn't mind if it still knocked down, but that might be OP.

 

Do you play Mag?

 

Stretch mod makes Crush control most of a room reliably, it doesn't -need- pull.

 

Pull still doesn't work reliably, enemies don't get pulled all the way, sometimes they don't get pulled at all just knocked over (new bug introduced in 8.3, Thanks Obama).

Pulling enemies from a pod/ally to yourself is not a very good power for a caster/controller frame.

 

You might save your friend but you might get killed because without crush you can't reliably kill the threat you just pulled to your knees. This might be a great ability on a frame that is naturally tanky, or if Shield Polarize would boost your shields, w/e.

 

Right now Mags Pull for CC is like a suicide button, I'd rather use the Kogake jump-smash, its free and faster.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Mietz

[liavalenth]

The Pull change could be good in the long run - if they change how it works. Decrease the cast time to near instant and make it usable while doing other things, such as wall running, and increase its range. That way, before enemies even get to you, you can start Crush.

The Shield Polarize still needs work, but a large AoE that hits all enemies AND allies could be nice, especially with the current 'z' key to bring up allies permanently. Although a UI overhall to make allies appear in a better spot would be nice, and may be coming.

Bullet Attraction could be nice, especially with damage after the death of the enemy but how it works needs to change. My idea would be to make it become an AoE DoT effect, where it deals damage per second it would have lasted had you not killed the creature. For example, as that it lasts 15 seconds (assume no mods) and you kill the creature 5 seconds after casting, it would deal 10/20/50/100 damage per second that it would remain (so 10 seconds in this case, maximum of 1500 damage if killed the instant you cast it on them). This is likely overpowered, but adjust the numbers a bit and it could work.

Edited July 5, 2013 by liavalenth

[CapricaSix]

They turned Pull into an AoE skill...? Why on earth?! Please make it a single target skill again DE or I'm dumping my Mag :|

 

Couldn't care less about Shield Polarise as I never used it anyway but it doesn't make any sense to me why it was also made AoE... could just buff the shield damage, or better yet- make it deplete/recharge a single target's shields completely, not like shields don't regenerate to full soon after anyway, still very situational and costs quite a bit.

[Invino]

Mag was terrible before and is useless now. 1st frame I sold off to make space.

Only thing I liked was the ally pull when someone is afking when defence mission is about to start, oh and those guys that stand 5m away from the end just to waste everyone's time :)

Edited July 5, 2013 by Invino

[ValhaHazred]

Do you play Mag?

 

Stretch mod makes Crush control most of a room reliably, it doesn't -need- pull.

 

Pull still doesn't work reliably, enemies don't get pulled all the way, sometimes they don't get pulled at all just knocked over (new bug introduced in 8.3, Thanks Obama).

Pulling enemies from a pod/ally to yourself is not a very good power for a caster/controller frame.

 

You might save your friend but you might get killed because without crush you can't reliably kill the threat you just pulled to your knees. This might be a great ability on a frame that is naturally tanky, or if Shield Polarize would boost your shields, w/e.

 

Right now Mags Pull for CC is like a suicide button, I'd rather use the Kogake jump-smash, its free and faster.

Yes, she was my starter and I still use her from time to time, including last night.

I played a few Infested Defence and pull came in handy several times. Just don't stand still afterwards, of course that will get you killed. I didn't have a chance to try Polarize and Atractor because I kept forgetting to re-slot them.

[BBYipho]

I've made my expression to the update in my Feedback thread.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/62457-lets-fix-mag-edition-updated-with-83/

 

Seriously though none of this I wanted. The ability to use shield polarize on yourself is nice but the value is still too bad.

 

Also I'm at the point that I want Bullet Attractor just removed from the game.

[CapricaSix]

Also I'm at the point that I want Bullet Attractor just removed from the game.

Wouldn't it be awesome if it was something like AoE Push instead :>

 

Give us a single target proper Pull, buffed Shield Polarise and an AoE Push, keep the Crush the same and Mag is set. In my opinion..

[BBYipho]

Wouldn't it be awesome if it was something like AoE Push instead :>

 

Give us a single target proper Pull, buffed Shield Polarise and an AoE Push, keep the Crush the same and Mag is set. In my opinion..

 

Actually I was thinking of what someone mention to me in my thread. Why not change the ability to another AoE lockdown move? Magnetize an object and have all enemies running by it slam suddenly against it hard with extreme electromagnetic force. Though thinking of it. It'll just be an alternative to Vauban's Bastille. Probably just much shorter range though.

[Sideway]

I agree. Rhino and Volt are now acceptable bottom-row Mid Tier... but Mag is still in her "Useless BowMag Tier" (Or should I say "Useless AoE Tier").

 

To be honest... I was expecting some serious rework. Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor are utterly useless. No matter the AoE. Damn, you can make Shield Polarize with global range and twice as strong and it's still USELESS. Wrong path taken.

 

Mag needs -new- skills. Buffing the old ones with AoE does nothing. Basic principals of uselessness are still here.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Sideway