HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[plexus_brachialis]

meant to edit, not quote myself

Edited February 5, 2017 by plexus_brachialis

[Hypernaut1]

11 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

*cracks knuckles*

Then we have the kind of players who see absolutely nothing wrong, despite there being strong evidence to the contrary, and will try their best to silence anyone that openly criticizes or says anything remotely negative about their "perfect" game and the people that develop it.

Then we have the kind of players that demand want even harder content because the OP gear, mods and abilities that they wanted the devs to give them is now trivializing existing content, not caring or forgetting that not everyone is a hardcore gamer or a masochist.

Then we have the kind of players that have completely forgotten what it was ever like to be a new player and make and support suggestions that are actually hostile to new players and have the potential to drive them (and their money) off.

 

It's kind of sad that downvoting isn't a thing on these forums, because it would be interesting to see how hard these sorts of people would be downvoted how unpopular their ideas really are and how many people disagree with them.

 

Where is this "strong evidence to the contrary"?

It's more like the forum echo chamber lives in their own bubble than anything.

I've learned that the Eco chamber is useless at times. I remember when forums would almost unanimously consider Ember the worst frame in the game... All DE did was make her WoF a toggle and all of a sudden she's OP. Before the change, it was easy to spam WoF anyway. The change just made it mindless. My point is, forums would have you believe that Ember was a broken mess, and it was far from the truth. Forums is not the best place for an unbiased non salty opinion.

[kaliazane]

12 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

so a game with huge number of weapons, frames and customization options is not meant to be played as individual prefers?

 

It's meant to be played in many ways and have something for everyone, pleasing everyone with every update will never happen because players are different and expect different things.

 

I'm sure once new updates drops, there will be yet another thing that some players will be extremely displeased about. All that while popularity of this game continues to rise.

[plexus_brachialis]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

 

It's meant to be played in many ways and have something for everyone, pleasing everyone with every update will never happen because players are different and expect different things.

 

I'm sure once new updates drops, there will be yet another thing that some players will be extremely displeased about. All that while popularity of this game continues to rise.

if it's meant to have something for everyone, why is DE encouraging meta squad for sample farming AFTER being AGAINST them for the longest time. that's major thing im pissed about. 

[kaliazane]

Just now, plexus_brachialis said:

if it's meant to have something for everyone, why is DE encouraging meta squad for sample farming AFTER being AGAINST them for the longest time. that's major thing im pissed about. 

Maybe Hema isn't for you then, someone else might enjoy a goal he can work towards together with his friends and clan. Setting up a good farming party, just to see how efficiently you can farm is a game in itself. I'm sure warframe offers plently of different content that you might enjoy through. I don't enjoy conclave so I don't play much of pvp in this game, even through they encourage me to do it.

[plexus_brachialis]

Just now, ViS4GE said:

Maybe Hema isn't for you then, someone else might enjoy a goal he can work towards together with his friends and clan. Setting up a good farming party, just to see how efficiently you can farm is a game in itself. I'm sure warframe offers plently of different content that you might enjoy through. I don't enjoy conclave so I don't play much of pvp in this game, even through they encourage me to do it.

except de never went 'you're not playing the pvp as it was intended, we will now nerf frames, make changes to this mission type to prevent afk farming, introduce afk-timer and do everything we can to hinder you instead of balancing content' and so on.  

[kaliazane]

4 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

except de never went 'you're not playing the pvp as it was intended, we will now nerf frames, make changes to this mission type to prevent afk farming, introduce afk-timer and do everything we can to hinder you instead of balancing content' and so on.  

They make design choices that they feel are right and base them on hard data that is in front of them. It seems to be working, as this game gets more and more popular.

[plexus_brachialis]

3 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

They make design choices that they feel are right and base them on hard data that is in front of them. It seems to be working, as this game gets more and more popular.

'our players are really tired of invulnerable enemy mechanic as our design crutch...so we design invulnerable until you hit one weakspot enemy!'

[kaliazane]

1 minute ago, plexus_brachialis said:

'our players are really tired of invulnerable enemy mechanic as our design crutch...so we design invulnerable until you hit one weakspot enemy!'

Or in that case they wanted to add new gameplay elements to keep game fresh and interesting. 

[plexus_brachialis]

5 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Or in that case they wanted to add new gameplay elements to keep game fresh and interesting. 

or they could've went 'see this weakspot? if you hit it it's OHK! we will reward your accuracy and skill but not punish you if you don't hit that little squigly bunch of pixels! in horde where everything is trying to claw your face! and in game where we introduced nullifiers because we don't like how you use your powers! and because there is so many weapons and not all of them are pinpoint accurate! and we know reliable melee hits on that spot are not gonna happen! so we will not punish you for your frame and weapon choice, but reward you for things you manage to do with your prefered combo!'

invulnerability in this game is neither fresh nor interesting anymore. 

Edited February 5, 2017 by plexus_brachialis

[dashashou]

5 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

or they could've went 'see this weakspot? if you hit it it's OHK! we will reward your accuracy and skill but not punish you if you don't hit that little squigly bunch of pixels! in horde where everything is trying to claw your face! and in game where we introduced nullifiers because we don't like how you use your powers! and because there is so many weapons and not all of them are pinpoint accurate! and we know reliable melee hits on that spot are not gonna happen! so we will not punish you for your frame and weapon choice, but reward you for things you manage to do with your prefered combo!'

invulnerability in this game is neither fresh nor interesting anymore. 

and farming ODD for weeks isn't fun but it what we have to do in this game atm  to get that Hema  ;  it fun  isn't the focus any more.  

[kaliazane]

8 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

or they could've went 'see this weakspot? if you hit it it's OHK! we will reward your accuracy and skill but not punish you if you don't hit that little squigly bunch of pixels! in horde where everything is trying to claw your face! and in game where we introduced nullifiers because we don't like how you use your powers! and because there is so many weapons and not all of them are pinpoint accurate! and we know reliable melee hits on that spot are not gonna happen! so we will not punish you for your frame and weapon choice, but reward you for things you manage to do with your prefered combo!'

invulnerability in this game is neither fresh nor interesting anymore. 

There you go, yet another thing you can complain about in future !

Edited February 5, 2017 by ViS4GE

[plexus_brachialis]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

There you go, yet another thing you can complain about in future !

so de says themselves the players don't like the invuln design (so they have data on that), proceed to do it anyway (and by your logic shouldn't because they have data, at least enough to state so), i offer an alternative and you don't have better reply than that?

 

[kaliazane]

6 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

so de says themselves the players don't like the invuln design (so they have data on that), proceed to do it anyway (and by your logic shouldn't because they have data, at least enough to state so), i offer an alternative and you don't have better reply than that?

Ember running around killing everything with WoF is good then ? They based Hema decision on hard data, new eximus units are design choice and once we get them we will see how they impact gameplay exactly. All you did was throw sarcasm at me twice in a row, so that's what I answered with.

Edited February 5, 2017 by ViS4GE

[plexus_brachialis]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

They based Hema decision on hard data, new eximus units are design choice and once we get them we will see how they impact gameplay exactly. You didn't offer anything, exept throwing sarcasm at me twice in a row.

 

35 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

They make design choices that they feel are right and base them on hard data that is in front of them

dunno, these two statements look contradictory to me. 

[EvilChaosKnight]

4 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Ember running around killing everything with WoF is good then ? They based Hema decision on hard data, new eximus units are design choice and once we get them we will see how they impact gameplay exactly. All you did was throw sarcasm at me twice in a row, so that's what I answered with.

I have a strange gut feeling that they've based Hema decision on desire to make some quick buck and to test how much carp players would be able to put up with before rioting Vivergate style

[kaliazane]

Just now, plexus_brachialis said:

 

dunno, these two statements look contradictory to me. 

Actually they probably also based new units on hard data, for example Ember Killing everything with WoF, your solution wouldn't fix that problem. In other words you are talking about things you don't understand, neither you nor me have hard data. But they do.

[plexus_brachialis]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

Actually they probably also based new units on hard data, for example Ember Killing everything with WoF, your solution wouldn't fix that problem. In other words you are talking about things you don't understand, neither you nor me have hard data. But they do.

but they have enough hard data to state that players hate the invulnerability mechanis and since they base their choices on hard data...they are gonna go ahead and just make the same designs. 

[Flirk2]

7 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Ember running around killing everything with WoF is good then ?

Yes. It's good. Rather annoying when someone else does it, but it's good. And you know it.

8 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

They based Hema decision on hard data,

Rubbish.

After playing for 1800 hours I had 3.3k samples. Not even enough to fund a ghost clan research.

And the average total play time is 70 hours.

''500 per person in the clan'' just doesn't hold against how there are no more than a handful of clans that are full.

They have the data. But they used it from the wrong end, it seems. Data was screaming and pleading, but they used it anyway.

12 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

All you did was throw sarcasm

Sorry, but what else is there to do when the same person brings up the same argument again and again and again?

Without bringing anything to refute the counter arguments given every time?

[kaliazane]

Just now, plexus_brachialis said:

but they have enough hard data to state that players hate the invulnerability mechanis and since they base their choices on hard data...they are gonna go ahead and just make the same designs. 

Do they ? even Kuva missions have invulnerability mechanics. I remember watching last Dev stream where they talked about some new bosses. Apparently biggest challenge for them is to create a boss that doesn't die in 5 sec, so that's where invulnerability is coming from.

This is offtopic through, we arent talking about Hema anymore.

 

[DinendalMinyatur]

6 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Your opinion means nothing. My opinion means nothing. DE has facts and figures.

Ok lets shutdown feedback sections on forums then.

[kaliazane]

7 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Yes. It's good. Rather annoying when someone else does it, but it's good. And you know it.

It's not really good for gameplay.

Quote

Rubbish.

After playing for 1800 hours I had 3.3k samples. Not even enough to fund a ghost clan research.

And the average total play time is 70 hours.

''500 per person in the clan'' just doesn't hold against how there are no more than a handful of clans that are full.

They have the data. But they used it from the wrong end, it seems. Data was screaming and pleading, but they used it anyway.

No it's not rubbish. As stated hundreds of times already "I played this many years and only have 100 samples" only means that you didn't grind derelicts much. You might aswell say "I don't like to play on derelict maps"

Quote

Sorry, but what else is there to do when the same person brings up the same argument again and again and again?

Without bringing anything to refute the counter arguments given every time?

Like you usually do, for example with "I played this long and only have that many samples" ? Okay.

Edited February 5, 2017 by ViS4GE

[plexus_brachialis]

2 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

This is offtopic through, we arent talking about Hema anymore.

 

one thing we can agree on. to get back on topic. explain to me. since i don't understand.

when syndicates were introduced, the standing gains were pitiful compared to cost of stuff they offered. players sought to maximize the profit and formed meta squads and cheese tactics. there were LOS nerfs to frames involved, changes to interception missions, changes to how many drops there could be on screen at the same time ('because graphic issues' and not as indirect nekros nerf), all that before DE said 'all right, we didn't think this through. let's do better now'

over time there were changes to nuke frames to prevent the nuking because players were only playing draco.

meta + one node = BIG NO NO from DE, time and time again.

but now? 

'take nekros and farm derelict'. explain to me why is that suddenly legit gameplay in DE's eyes. for ONE weapon. when before it wasn't allowed for all other loot and affinity. (yes yes, i know players gonna cheese all the time. but DE disliked it very much.)

[Flirk2]

Just now, ViS4GE said:

It's not really good for gameplay.

But it is. If it feels good, it's a good game play.

Or is the game expected to be some kind of punishment? I didn't think so. But it sure starts to feel that way.

And really, stop with the Ember already. You used it yourself quite enough. If you didn't enjoy using it, well, you had a lot of frames to choose from.

3 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

No it's not rubbish. As stated hundreds of times already "I played this many years and only have 100 samples" only means that you didn't grind derelicts much. You might aswell say "I don't like to play on derelict maps"

Rubbish.

I got my Ember Prime Blueprint before it got vaulted, and have only about 150 orokin ciphers. When there was something to get from Derelict I was quite happy going there.

Even Embering (or Tinity'ing when someone else Embered) ODD didn't feel that bad back when I had a chance at a prime part on rotation C and didn't have any use for mutagen samples...

6 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Like you usually do, for example with "I played this long and only have that many samples" ? Okay.

I'm sorry, but what is this? A counter argument? I don't think so. I bring up my play time as evidence to drop rate.

And it is. Because I didn't have any boosters for maybe 95% of that play time, it's a rather accurate representation of drop rates.

I played the game slower than most people, true. But I didn't sit with unused blueprints for months either. When there were things to level, I leveled them. So I know how resources were drained quite well for an average player with no boosters and playing mostly solo.

[kaliazane]

2 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

one thing we can agree on. to get back on topic. explain to me. since i don't understand.

when syndicates were introduced, the standing gains were pitiful compared to cost of stuff they offered. players sought to maximize the profit and formed meta squads and cheese tactics. there were LOS nerfs to frames involved, changes to interception missions, changes to how many drops there could be on screen at the same time ('because graphic issues' and not as indirect nekros nerf), all that before DE said 'all right, we didn't think this through. let's do better now'

over time there were changes to nuke frames to prevent the nuking because players were only playing draco.

meta + one node = BIG NO NO from DE, time and time again.

but now? 

'take nekros and farm derelict'. explain to me why is that suddenly legit gameplay in DE's eyes. for ONE weapon. when before it wasn't allowed for all other loot and affinity. (yes yes, i know players gonna cheese all the time. but DE disliked it very much.)

Derelicts are entire tileset, not just 1 node. Tileset that had next to no use previously and now it does.

Also this meta + one node is still here because people don't like to waste time, draco was replaced by bere. Want to farm credits, akkad with proper party. Almost everything you mentioned is still here in one form or another.