HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[DeadScream]

Just realized, with DE logic they should refund me for the things I bought right before they got a surprise 50% discount. 

[Naskoni]

10 minutes ago, k05h said:

I just want to add this reddit post that shows a new idea born out of Hema-makes-clans-great-again: Get some tenno freshmen, let them do the farming and then kick them. 

 

The amount of clan "cooperation", "goodwill" and straight up "fun" - who in their right mind wouldn't rejoice at the prospect of "more crazy clan stuff"? The only thing missing in this story is him being charged, say, 100p as an admission fee to that clan...

[plexus_brachialis]

25 minutes ago, k05h said:

You deserve the title: "Best white knight imitator of the month"

 

aw no good sir, i just have some real life issues going on and this is my place to let loose all the combined salts

[KIREEK]

2 hours ago, k05h said:

I just want to add this reddit post that shows a new idea born out of Hema-makes-clans-great-again: Get some tenno freshmen, let them do the farming and then kick them. 

 

Sadly this isn't related to the topic at hand, research costs have nothing to do with clan management, these rare cases need to be dealt with support, but they are unrelated to the discussion of hema..

Edited February 1, 2017 by KIREEK

[Flirk2]

24 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Sadly this isn't related to the topic at hand, research costs have nothing to do with clan management, these rare cases need to be dealt with support, but they are unrelated to the discussion of hema..

How? How can people not see the connection?

Did you hear anything this bad happening before Hema? I don't think these things could happen at all. At least not at this scale.

And now expect these things happen more and more with every new clan-related grind wall.

[Liminal]

44 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Sadly this isn't related to the topic at hand, research costs have nothing to do with clan management, these rare cases need to be dealt with support, but they are unrelated to the discussion of hema..

The #1 cause is a-holes, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not related. Kicking someone after they donated 450 polymer bundles (for the Phage, for example) is pretty useless... you don't gain much by abusing your warlord status to attract naive donators in that case. And for the kicked dude, losing that amount of resources after being kicked is also pretty tame and most people wouldn't care.

What I'm saying is sure, a-holes are to blame for being a-holes, but this problem wouldn't even exist without a ridiculous research cost in the first place. ie: the sample cost didn't really succeed if getting people to work together was truly the objective.

Edited February 1, 2017 by The_Doc
(didn't know a diminutive for richard was not allowed)

[KIREEK]

11 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

How? How can people not see the connection?

Did you hear anything this bad happening before Hema? I don't think these things could happen at all. At least not at this scale.

And now expect these things happen more and more with every new clan-related grind wall.

Yes, yes you do, players get kicked from clans and clans get disbanded all the time.

You going to tell me that a research at the time caused player X to get kicked from clan Y? pls

Edited February 1, 2017 by KIREEK

[Naskoni]

10 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

How? How can people not see the connection?

Did you hear anything this bad happening before Hema? I don't think these things could happen at all. At least not at this scale.

And now expect these things happen more and more with every new clan-related grind wall.

People can see the connection clearly. Trolls, on the other hand - not really... And SUPER efficient, casual trolls are basically like bats in that regard.

[Flirk2]

Just now, KIREEK said:

Yes, yes you do, players get kicked from clans and clans get disbanded all the time

Not over a research object.

Not after donating their stock of resource acquired over 500+ hours of playing the game.

I'm not sure how you can not see it, really.

People are not nice to each other all the time. Make the situation hard? A lot of people who were not that bad to each other start to be bad to each other.

[KIREEK]

31 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Not over a research object.

Not after donating their stock of resource acquired over 500+ hours of playing the game.

I'm not sure how you can not see it, really.

People are not nice to each other all the time. Make the situation hard? A lot of people who were not that bad to each other start to be bad to each other.

And what has the social aspect fo clans has to do with the ammount of samples required for hema.

We cannot dictate how clans manage the players they have, it's their clan, they are entitled to manage things as they see fit, if players don't like it and are punished by it, they can leave and ask support for some help on the matter.

But this case, where the contributions  (above 500 mind you, an unrealistic goal by many) where not used at all for the benefit of a member of the clan then it does feel like a kick in the nuts, but this is a matter between the clan owner, the player and support. We certainly can't drag hema into the mix.

The user happened to be donating samples, if he had been donating salvage he would be complaining about the weapon that needs salvage and thus the topic on reddit wouldn't even exist.

The user involved hema but he made it clear that it was the clan the main issue, not hema, so please do not use a topic that has "hema" on the name to start mobilizing players to hate on a fair DE decision

If anything it only shows what a player with minimal interest can gather regarding the mutagen samples, something many should learn asap before the next research appears.

Edited February 1, 2017 by KIREEK

[Ditto132]

4 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Lack of things to do causes people to login for the sake of login rewards, just as I was doing near the end of last year. Game gets less and less active players due to previous update being completed after sometimes even 1 day. Grind is what extends that period. What you can see on that graph are people logging in as the update drops in, completing it and going offline. Now compare January of last year to january this year, then wait till february ends and compare it to last february.

"Grind is what extends that period" Really? It is just artificially prolong the game, with no values added. Except more active players in the game farming instead of enjoying the game.

4 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Three of the games you mentioned are pvp games, competition is what keeps them active not robust, balanced and interesting inter-connected systems. Killing Floor got tiny player base compared to Warframe. This is not pvp centered game and only fraction of people even goes to conclave so it's pve elements that keep this game going. This new weapon that was just realeased and you really want to get it. That new stance which you'd love to try, new frame that you have to get your hands on asap. That's what keeps this game going, together with major updates like - Focus system and Riven system. But they can't pump out such updates every week.

To be honest, I dislike playing PvP games. I didn't even play conclave mode at all.
I bringing up those games as they have robust, balanced and interesting inter-connected systems. Without those, people wouldn't be interested in playing, let alone playing competitively.
All those games are satisfying to play by itself. People spent lot of time on those games even without any focus on farming.

You know what keeps Warframe going? Things that the players suggested/requested and are hyped about.
I don't think players are looking forward to farming in the next update.
Instead, they are looking forward to the

• new frames (e.g. Bard, Nidus)
• TennoGen (skins and fashion frames)
• gameplay
• tilesets
• enemies
• events
• epic lore and quest (e.g. Second Dream)
• Quality of Life updates (e.g. search function, item linking, fast travel in relay)
• bugfixes, optimisations, balances and reworks

And I am sure that players are willing to wait for those quality updates, talking about and speculating about what is coming.
DE had previously said that they wanted to reduce grind/farm.

P.S. Anyway, I am not a person who have to get my hands on new things asap.

[Flirk2]

Just now, KIREEK said:

We certainly can't drag hema into the mix.

We can.

You don't want us to. But we can.

1 minute ago, KIREEK said:

The user happened to be donating samples, if he had been donating salvage he would be complaining about the weapon that needs salvage and thus the topic on reddit wouldn't even exist.

Did you read?

The post? The thread?

I mean, at this point I'm really not sure.

Let's try again?

Hema costs 5k mutagen samples that drop with 1% base drop chance on a tile set that is almost unused since SotR and most people who played the game for more then 1500 hours had less then 5k of those samples. A lot less.

Synapse costs 65 mutagen samples.

Is it any wonder that exploitation of clan system started?

I think I'm not going to try and make you see reason anymore.

You don't see a problem with playing the game for more then 4k hours and not having almost half of the things in game? I'll assure you, there are not many players like that.

If there were, Draco-like places would not be a thing.

I'm not sure how exactly can you advocate for meta-farming with boosters while not wanting to even try half the things in game. Why even farm at all then? What for?

Other then building stuff to level it up, there are only dojo decorations to use those resources on. But you can only have 100 rooms in a dojo. There is a limit to how much decorations you can make after all...

[KIREEK]

6 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Synapse costs 65 mutagen samples.

 

So, a solo ghost clan can play for 30 minutes in the derelicts and gather that ammount. (no boosters)

inb4 "i gathered more than 65 in less time", i know you can, but let's make it reasonable for the less........"enthusiastic players"

I don't know if you see the problem here, a single player, contributes alone to his clan and after 30 minutes of releasing a new research he already has the costs covered and now he only has to wait 3 days for it to finish

single player, 30 minutes

Yes, hema could be like that, but what if it actually required more time from a single player or what if it required an actual clan, i don't mean a 100% full clan, just 20 or 30%

Very unrealistic goals here right? Requesting a few days of gameplay and a few members in the clan.

My clan also only had 2 contributions asside from me, but i saw some effort in getting things done, these 2 players donated more than the 500 required, so i went ahead and gave the remaining 3100, again it wasn't about the costs, but the usefullness of the weapon for me and the clanmates because in the end with no actual farm i had over the ammount my ghost clan requires.

If you don't believe this, that's your problem.

[Naskoni]

5 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

If you don't believe this, that's your problem.

I don't believe this, and it is indeed your problem.

[kaliazane]

45 minutes ago, Ditto132 said:

"Grind is what extends that period" Really? It is just artificially prolong the game, with no values added. Except more active players in the game farming instead of enjoying the game.

Did you max all focus trees or are you still farming for them 1 year later ? What about kuva, almost 2 months later are you still grinding for it ? What about credits, do you grind for them 4 years later ? Endo ? So warframe is mainly about grinding after all and it does extend that period quite a bit.

To be honest, I dislike playing PvP games. I didn't even play conclave mode at all.
I bringing up those games as they have robust, balanced and interesting inter-connected systems. Without those, people wouldn't be interested in playing, let alone playing competitively.
All those games are satisfying to play by itself. People spent lot of time on those games even without any focus on farming.

You know what keeps Warframe going? Things that the players suggested/requested and are hyped about.
I don't think players are looking forward to farming in the next update.
Instead, they are looking forward to the

• new frames (e.g. Bard, Nidus)
• TennoGen (skins and fashion frames)
• gameplay
• tilesets
• enemies
• events
• epic lore and quest (e.g. Second Dream)
• Quality of Life updates (e.g. search function, item linking, fast travel in relay)
• bugfixes, optimisations, balances and reworks

P.S. Anyway, I am not a person who have to get my hands on new things asap.

They can't add new enemies, tilesets, events, epic 1 year apart quests in every update. Yes that would be way better, but it's not going to happen without long waiting times in between. Warframe requires new content and it also requires things to grind for, this is pve game after all. Comparing it to pvp games where you simply join a game and compete with other people is pointless. What exactly is so robust, balanced and inter-connected about overwatch, counter-strike, Dota2, LoL and insert any other game where main goal is to COMPETE  with other team/guy. I think you are getting little carried away there, it's pvp aspect that is most important there and we basically don't have that here.

And I am sure that players are willing to wait for those quality updates, talking about and speculating about what is coming.
DE had previously said that they wanted to reduce grind/farm.

And while you wait for updates that are far apart from each other, you have something to do. I went through all that grind reducing many times already, go through my old posts.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by ViS4GE

[plexus_brachialis]

33 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Did you max all focus trees or are you still farming for them 1 year later ? What about kuva, almost 2 months later are you still grinding for it ? What about credits, do you grind for them 4 years later ? Endo ? So warframe is mainly about grinding after all huh ?

me chiming in again cause you touch some of my main beefs with game :D (disclaimer: just MY personal, filthy casual opinion on these things) (veering off topic)(forgive me)

1. no. focus is unbaked half thought out abomination that was as usual, shoveled into game and untouched since, apart from 1-2 fixes in first month. majority of bonuses aren't worth investing into. slap some lens on your gear, forget about it, after a month or two see if you have enough to invest into something worthwile. move on. 

2. nope. tried at beginning, didn't like clunkiness, had couple issues with clouds stuck in ground and mission being halted for ages til i manage to locate tiny bit of red mist protruding from somewhere. only rivens i was interested in and with stats i liked i aquired through trading, but i lived before them and i can live without them. 

3. and 4. nope. i get enough of that through casual play, i choose not to spend them on things i don't like, i choose not to max primed mods because i'm already cheesing enough. i don't need everything. therefore i have plenty. 

for me wf is mainly about looking pretty and making sweet love to my vulkar wraith. (give me sweet vulkar skins de)

33 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

They can't add new enemies, tilesets, events, epic 1 year apart quests in every update. Yes that would be way better, but it's not going to happen without long waiting times in between. Warframe requires new content and it also requires things to grind for, this is pve game after all. Comparing it to pvp games where you simply join a game and compete with other people is pointless. What exactly is so robust, balanced and inter-connected about overwatch, counter-strike, Dota2, LoL and insert any other game where main goal is to COMPETE  with other team/guy. I think you are getting little carried away there, it's pvp aspect that is most important there and we basically don't have that here.

1. even that they don't do well, lately. new enemies - invulnerability periods, otherwise one-shot. 'challenge'. new tileset - pretty but no reason to play. (lua was well done, i'll give them that, but kuva? pf.) events? let's make things repetetive and rewards are rng dependant! where are things like cryotic front? increasing difficulty and win condition but not stretching forever and having set rewards? TWW was not worth the delay. i don't even know who is warring within whom, that's how invested i felt.

2. if pve, why was most of last year spent churning lunaro, which nobody asked for? ss de. in every update and hotfix i can count on conclave fixes, additions and balances. for game mode only like 1% players are invested in? i mean, good for them, but iirc on their graphs it was something like 1%? why so much work for 1% audience, and not even half of effort for the other 99%? 

(i'm not attacking you btw. im just expressing frustrations at this game that run deeper than hema/grind issue)

(bottom line, i'd enjoy game more if grind was less in my face and more background to actual fun)

Edited February 1, 2017 by plexus_brachialis

[kaliazane]

17 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

me chiming in again cause you touch some of my main beefs with game :D (disclaimer: just MY personal, filthy casual opinion on these things) (veering off topic)(forgive me)

1. no. focus is unbaked half thought out abomination that was as usual, shoveled into game and untouched since, apart from 1-2 fixes in first month. majority of bonuses aren't worth investing into. slap some lens on your gear, forget about it, after a month or two see if you have enough to invest into something worthwile. move on. 

2. nope. tried at beginning, didn't like clunkiness, had couple issues with clouds stuck in ground and mission being halted for ages til i manage to locate tiny bit of red mist protruding from somewhere. only rivens i was interested in and with stats i liked i aquired through trading, but i lived before them and i can live without them. 

3. and 4. nope. i get enough of that through casual play, i choose not to spend them on things i don't like, i choose not to max primed mods because i'm already cheesing enough. i don't need everything. therefore i have plenty. 

for me wf is mainly about looking pretty and making sweet love to my vulkar wraith. (give me sweet vulkar skins de)

1. even that they don't do well, lately. new enemies - invulnerability periods, otherwise one-shot. 'challenge'. new tileset - pretty but no reason to play. (lua was well done, i'll give them that, but kuva? pf.) events? let's make things repetetive and rewards are rng dependant! where are things like cryotic front? increasing difficulty and win condition but not stretching forever and having set rewards? TWW was not worth the delay. i don't even know who is warring within whom, that's how invested i felt.

2. if pve, why was most of last year spent churning lunaro, which nobody asked for? ss de. in every update and hotfix i can count on conclave fixes, additions and balances. for game mode only like 1% players are invested in? i mean, good for them, but iirc on their graphs it was something like 1%? why so much work for 1% audience, and not even half of effort for the other 99%? 

(i'm not attacking you btw. im just expressing frustrations at this game that run deeper than hema/grind issue)

You don't seem to like this game very much or should I say at all.

To me answer to all of my questions was yes, and I don't know why they keep working on conclave if almost nobody is playing it. I've heard that completely different team is hadling conclave, so if they are on payroll they have to put in the work.

Edited February 1, 2017 by ViS4GE

[VentiGlondi]

1 hour ago, Ditto132 said:

DE had previously said that they wanted to reduce grind/farm

You could once farm Mutagen on Eris, Derelict, and Jupiter.

Now you can only farm it on Derelict.

Isn't that reducing the grind!? 

[plexus_brachialis]

Just now, ViS4GE said:

You don't seem to like this game very much, or should I say at all. 

To me answer to all of my questions was yes, and I don't know why they keep working on conclave if almost nobody is playing it. I've heard that completely different team is hadling conclave, so if they are on payroll they have to put in the work.

that's the thing, i used to like it a lot. i used to freaking neglect studies so i could play more. (hell i'm pretty much doing it now to complain and feedback) and i wish some of the shine would return. i'm not demanding things be handed to me. except maybe more cosmetics, which i don't mind paying for. i like pretty things, sue me.

it's been ages since i seen event that rewards you for playing it. it's like they gave up on them when they made event weapons sortie rewards. it's like they look at player feedback and go 'lets not! not like that! make it convulted and all wrong!'

they should look up to conclave team a bit. learn few tricks of the trade. 

[Liminal]

3 hours ago, plexus_brachialis said:

i like pretty things, sue me.

If you insist... you'll be hearing from my lawyer soon.

[Ditto132]

10 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Did you max all focus trees or are you still farming for them 1 year later ? What about kuva, almost 2 months later are you still grinding for it ? What about credits, do you grind for them 4 years later ? Endo ? So warframe is mainly about grinding after all and it does extend that period quite a bit.

Why should I focus on Focus farming when it is still subjected to changes and I have not use for most of them? Focus point is a bonus for me.
I don't need to grind for Kuva except for 2-3 weapons that need Kuva to craft. Also, I don't re-roll Rivens.
Since I started playing, I have yet to encounter credits deficiency. Currently having ~9,000,000 credits.
I might not have sufficient Endo to max all my Primed mods, I max them when I see the need to. Currently having ~106,000 Endo, and if need be, I still have Ayatan.

All those resources that you mentioned, I don't actively grind for them.

 

10 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

They can't add new enemies, tilesets, events, epic 1 year apart quests in every update. Yes that would be way better, but it's not going to happen without long waiting times in between. Warframe requires new content and it also requires things to grind for, this is pve game after all. Comparing it to pvp games where you simply join a game and compete with other people is pointless. What exactly is so robust, balanced and inter-connected about overwatch, counter-strike, Dota2, LoL and insert any other game where main goal is to COMPETE  with other team/guy. I think you are getting little carried away there, it's pvp aspect that is most important there and we basically don't have that here.

I didn't state that they have to add all those contents in every update. Sure, new contents require some requirements to obtain, but not ridiculous requirements.
Also, making requirements based on stockpile is one of the way of "dishonouring" the effort players had put into the game.
It is like saying that Ohma should require 100 Nitains, so that I won't get it on Day One when it is released, because I already got ~80 Nitains in my inventory.
Or that someone invested in ~4000 hours into the game, that the rest of the players should follow too?

Doesn't matter if they are PvP or PvE. If the core mechanics are not up to standard, players won't be interested in playing them.

11 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

I bringing up those games as they have robust, balanced and interesting inter-connected systems. Without those, people wouldn't be interested in playing, let alone playing competitively.

My point being that those games are about intrinsic reward instead of extrinsic reward. People play them because they wanted to, not because they have to.
Ok, those examples doesn't convince you, how about you suggesting other similar games that you can relate to?
Also, if possible, please name some games that changes the requirements based on veteran player's stockpile.

 

10 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

And while you wait for updates that are far apart from each other, you have something to do. I went through all that grind reducing many times already, go through my old posts.

I don't blaze through all the new contents when update comes, and then complain that I have nothing to do.
Even for some reasons that I managed to consume all the new contents, I would wait for the updates while I play some of my ~200 games in Steam. Or do some other hobbies.
Also, I don't recall players asking for more grinds... they asked for more contents, not grinds.

[CandyDragon]

Hema research is the ultimate in treadmill gameplay.  They didn't even try to disguise it, its just "you will grind or you will not have this content" 

 

Its faster to farm plat and buy it, which I wonder if it is partially intentional in that regard. 

[(XBOX)Static Rainn]

I run The Hidden Shinobi moon clan on Xbox One, and we just finished the hema today. Took us 13 days to complete. And As far as I know we're the only moon clan on Xbox One to have it done at the moment. This is just for other moon clans out there to know that getting it done is still possible if your members are active and contribute.

Edited February 2, 2017 by (XB1)Static Rainn

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

About 7 hours in ODD so far two members + boosters + smeeta + farming frames. Still got 600 more to go out of 5k.

Definitely gotta recommend doing it in breaks otherwise you will burn yourself out.

Doing about 250-400 each per per 40-50 waves of ODD. Mind you we did buy it with platinum not fully worth the effort. But we want all research always done for our clan.😆

 

[Liminal]

18 hours ago, KIREEK said:

I don't know if you see the problem here, a single player, contributes alone to his clan and after 30 minutes of releasing a new research he already has the costs covered and now he only has to wait 3 days for it to finish

There's a lot of middle ground between 65 and 5000.