HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[Tyrian3k]

45 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

New players will just do what most other who want a Hema probably do: Farm things to trade for the plat-cost and then buy it.

The Hema cost does seem to have had some negative impact on some clans however, based on what have been written on these forums. An internal clan conflict between those who are willing to farm MS until their eyes bleed and those who aren't. That alone might make DE rethink such a stunt another time.

Yeah, kicking all casual and new players must also be such a healthy thing to do for social aspect of clans.

[Madotsuki]

Everything there is to be said on the subject has probably already been said by this point on this thread, but eh, i'll say my fill anyway. Copy-pasted from my reply on another thread on this topic...

40 waves of ODD with pilfering swarm Hydroid and desecrating Nekros nets approximately 200 samples without boosters. With 4 people, that's about 800 towards research per hour spent. That doesn't sound too bad, until you compare it to the Hema costs for large clans. The problem isn't really in the OD drop rates, it's in the cost itself, and the fact mutagen can't be obtained reasonably anywhere that's not ODD. You think people would whine nearly as much if Eris dropped mutagen at the same rate other planets drop detonites and fieldrons? Or if infested in general just drop mutagens instead of the other research mats, as logic would dictate?

The reason why Hema is such a big problem is because, besides the completely absurd resource cost, the only way to get mutagens is to specifically farm for it. ODD is good for nothing except mutagen samples, the vast majority of players aren't going to go out of their way to spend hours grinding there just for one lousy weapon. Low level players won't even FIND mutagens to contribute, and normal players who want to play other missions or Akkad won't pick up random mutagens to contribute neither. The cost itself discourages many players from even trying, or, as I'm sure DE intended, was coerced into forking out plat for it instead.

My advice? Just pretend Hema doesn't exist. If you've got gear to power-level and enough friends who can be asked, sure, go run ODD every once in a while and bank some exp while you're at it, but otherwise, just do something else. It's just one imaginary gun in a video game, who cares?

...inb4 Hema because prerequsite to all future infested research, and future research uses similar costs. I guess we'll just quit then if that's how DE wants to ruin their game >_>

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

2 hours ago, Madotsuki said:

Everything there is to be said on the subject has probably already been said by this point on this thread, but eh, i'll say my fill anyway. Copy-pasted from my reply on another thread on this topic...

40 waves of ODD with pilfering swarm Hydroid and desecrating Nekros nets approximately 200 samples without boosters. With 4 people, that's about 800 towards research per hour spent. That doesn't sound too bad, until you compare it to the Hema costs for large clans. The problem isn't really in the OD drop rates, it's in the cost itself, and the fact mutagen can't be obtained reasonably anywhere that's not ODD. You think people would whine nearly as much if Eris dropped mutagen at the same rate other planets drop detonites and fieldrons? Or if infested in general just drop mutagens instead of the other research mats, as logic would dictate?

The reason why Hema is such a big problem is because, besides the completely absurd resource cost, the only way to get mutagens is to specifically farm for it. ODD is good for nothing except mutagen samples, the vast majority of players aren't going to go out of their way to spend hours grinding there just for one lousy weapon. Low level players won't even FIND mutagens to contribute, and normal players who want to play other missions or Akkad won't pick up random mutagens to contribute neither. The cost itself discourages many players from even trying, or, as I'm sure DE intended, was coerced into forking out plat for it instead.

My advice? Just pretend Hema doesn't exist. If you've got gear to power-level and enough friends who can be asked, sure, go run ODD every once in a while and bank some exp while you're at it, but otherwise, just do something else. It's just one imaginary gun in a video game, who cares?

...inb4 Hema because prerequsite to all future infested research, and future research uses similar costs. I guess we'll just quit then if that's how DE wants to ruin their game >_>

I guess that's even more of an issue when you're part of a casuals/soloers Moon clan, isn't it? 

 

[Off topic kinda]

I won't stop farming, but what happened this morning made me stare at the screen for like 2 minutes... I have no words to thank you, @Kalimeister, this is without any doubt the best gift I ever received in Warframe, both because of the gift itself and because I didn't see it coming at all. Thank you so much!!!

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[Naskoni]

6 hours ago, KIREEK said:

no, 10 minutes a day is enough

You have more than 288 000 minutes of mission time so far. If you'd been even minimally efficient and got 1 mutagen sample for every 10 minutes of playing this game you'd be able to research the Hema five times over already. Too bad your efficiency is SO poor.

[Naskoni]

3 hours ago, Madotsuki said:

40 waves of ODD with pilfering swarm Hydroid and desecrating Nekros nets approximately 200 samples without boosters.

Nope, that's with a drop chance booster. Plenty of people make the mistake of claiming "no boosters" for numbers where at least one of the group had the drop chance booster, which affects the whole party. Next time ask if anybody has a booster before making any conclusions.

The actual numbers without any boosters will depress you :)

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

7 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

Nope, that's with a drop chance booster. Plenty of people make the mistake of claiming "no boosters" for numbers where at least one of the group had the drop chance booster, which affects the whole party. Next time ask if anybody has a booster before making any conclusions.

The actual numbers without any boosters will depress you :)

Have to say, that is pretty corret in my experience; with boosters, without a Kavat but with both Nekros and Hydroid I get around 400 samples in 40 waves, anyone in my clan could confirm you that.

I think the problem is that most people don't understand that Hydroid must spam Tentacles, because while not being necessary to be killed by them, it's the safest and most efficent way to avoid teammates killing enemies not affected by them. There's a huge difference between drops with a good Hydroid or not.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that 200/400 without/with boosters is a correct estimate for 40 waves of ODD; I still think it's a poor number tho.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[Gigarayzor]

It seems to be like any good game designer when faced with a conundrum of risking insulting a small minority of players or definitely pissing off a majority of players and making the experience worse for every new player, the smart move should always be to side in favor of the new players which an online game needs to stay alive, especially if you can offer some sort of refund to make up for that minority who might be upset.

Imagine someone new tries this game, gets rolling through some planets and has fun, talks some of their friends into playing, they start a clan and experimenting with research, eventually they will come across this thing that requires literally orders of magnitude more grinding than everything else before it. This is a wall that will instantly raise red flags in any savvy gamer. Going through all the other blueprints and research is already a daunting task for new players, but it's a great one because they're constantly being rewarded with new gear, feel a sense of progression, and have a freedom most games lack in choosing their next steps in advancement. You can log in for just a few hours and accomplish something, get a new weapon started or finish a quest. The Hema on the other hand is a big warning signal that this game is going to become a mindless grindfest like some shovelware microtransaction mobile game or third rate mmo. When I'm trying a game and see things like that which take hours upon hours of repetition, that's a clear sign that the developers do not respect my time, and I shouldn't bother getting invested regardless how far away I am from that content.

[Naskoni]

Just now, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

Have to say, that is pretty corret in my experience; without a Kavat but with both Nekros and Hydroid I get around 400 samples in 40 waves, anyone in my clan could confirm you that.

I think the problem is that most people don't understand that Hydroid must spam Tentacles, because while not being necessary to be killed by them, it's the safest and most efficent way to avoid teammates killing enemies not affected by them. There's a huge difference between drops with a good Hydroid or not.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that 200/400 without/with boosters is a correct estimate for 40 waves of ODD; I still think it's a poor number tho.

I'm someone that farmed over 4500+ sample in five days without any boosters, all in random groups. With only Nekros, with Nekros AND Hydroid and without any farming frames. To give you an idea - with Nekros only and without any boosters you get 35 samples for 20 waves at ODD. Just because there is no indication on the screen that somebody has a drop chance booster on doesn't mean there isn't any. As I said - if you think 200 per 40 waves is a low number try the actual numbers without any boosters.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

52 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

I'm someone that farmed over 4500+ sample in five days without any boosters, all in random groups. With only Nekros, with Nekros AND Hydroid and without any farming frames. To give you an idea - with Nekros only and without any boosters you get 35 samples for 20 waves at ODD. Just because there is no indication on the screen that somebody has a drop chance booster on doesn't mean there isn't any. As I said - if you think 200 per 40 waves is a low number try the actual numbers without any boosters.

But what I'm trying to say is that you get 200 WITHOUT boosters in 40 ODD waves, not WITH boosters; I accumulated and donated more than 20k samples atm, if you want I can start to post screenshots of our ODD runs, 200 samples for 40 waves ODD with boosters has never happened to us, not even close to that.

Unless you were doing a duo run, there's no way a full team with Nekros and Hydroid with boosters can get that few samples in 40 waves.

Take a look at this:

Now, that was nearly a perfect run and I've never been able to replicate that, I never got more than 450 samples in 40 waves again, but still there's no way 40 waves can give you only 200 mutagen samples with boosters and both farming frames, unless you're not in a full team.

And to be clear again, I'm not saying that getting 400 samples in 40 waves with boosters and a full team is fine, I'm just saying that's how it is; I'm fully against Hema research cost, I just tend to stick to numbers in order to be taken seriously.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[Naskoni]

13 minutes ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

But what I'm trying to say is that you get 200 WITHOUT boosters in 40 ODD waves, not WITH boosters; I accumulated and donated more than 20k samples atm, if you want I can start to post screenshots of our ODD runs, 200 samples for 40 waves ODD with boosters has never happened to us, not even close to that.

Unless you were doing a duo run, there's no way a full team with Nekros and Hydroid with boosters can get that few samples in 40 waves.

Take a look at this:

Now, that was nearly a perfect run and I've never been able to replicate that, I never got more than 450 samples in 40 waves again, but still there's no way 40 waves can give you only 200 mutagen samples with boosters and both farming frames, unless you're not in a full team.

And to be clear again, I'm not saying that getting 400 samples in 40 waves with boosters and a full team is fine, I'm just saying that's how it is.

You can't read? You NEVER get 200 samples for 40 waves of ODD without boosters. And sorry to have to educate you but drop chance boosters affect the whole group, i.e. even if YOU don't have any boosters on you still get to benefit from SOMEBODY ELSE'S drop chance booster. And, no I wasn't doing duo or solo runs, full groups. Which part of "you get 35 samples for 20 waves of ODD with Nekros only" was too hard to understand? That's Nekros only in a FULL group. Guess ignorance IS a bliss.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

9 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

You can't read? You NEVER get 200 samples for 40 waves of ODD without boosters. And sorry to have to educate you but drop chance boosters affect the whole group, i.e. even if YOU don't have any boosters on you still get to benefit from SOMEBODY ELSE'S drop chance booster. And, no I wasn't doing duo or solo runs, full groups. Which part of "you get 35 samples for 20 waves of ODD with Nekros only" was too hard to understand? That's Nekros only in a FULL group. Guess ignorance IS a bliss.

Alright:

- Being rude just makes you look silly, I'm sorry, and even less reliable, if possible

- If a nearly perfect ODD run granted us 522 samples, that means we had 261 samples without drop booster and probably around 200 without the chance one. The drop chance wouldn't halve that amount, but I'm sure you know how the drop chance resource booster work, don't you?

- Sorry, no need to educate me, I'm with both boosters since december, I've been gifting to clanmates who were farming mutagen samples with me resoruce boosters(only drop ones ofc) since then and have absolutely clear in my mind how boosters work

- I can test that Nekros only ODD 20 waves claim, I'll have boosters on but I guess we can easily say if I would have gotten 35 samples without them

 

That said, it's because of people like you that Hema research has not been changed, because complaining without using facts and our brain just makes us look overreacting and exaggerated, I'm pretty sure we would have obtained something complaining and fighting against this in a reasonable way.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[Naskoni]

Just now, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

I'm with both boosters since december

I rest my case. But thanks for claiming clueless BS you have no idea about.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

1 minute ago, Naskoni said:

I rest my case. But thanks for claiming clueless BS you have no idea about.

No prob, feel like I wasted my time with you, but whatever, was a nice break from farming.

Cya!

[Ditto132]

8 hours ago, KIREEK said:

no, 10 minutes a day is enough

Enough to do what? Speedrun?
Even Sortie requires about 30-45 mins.
Also, whenever I see an alert that is ~1 min remaining, I can forget about doing it. Because the launcher, loading, login, 5 secs countdown all added up to near one minute.
 

1 hour ago, Gigarayzor said:

It seems to be like any good game designer when faced with a conundrum of risking insulting a small minority of players or definitely pissing off a majority of players and making the experience worse for every new player, the smart move should always be to side in favor of the new players which an online game needs to stay alive, especially if you can offer some sort of refund to make up for that minority who might be upset.

Imagine someone new tries this game, gets rolling through some planets and has fun, talks some of their friends into playing, they start a clan and experimenting with research, eventually they will come across this thing that requires literally orders of magnitude more grinding than everything else before it. This is a wall that will instantly raise red flags in any savvy gamer. Going through all the other blueprints and research is already a daunting task for new players, but it's a great one because they're constantly being rewarded with new gear, feel a sense of progression, and have a freedom most games lack in choosing their next steps in advancement. You can log in for just a few hours and accomplish something, get a new weapon started or finish a quest. The Hema on the other hand is a big warning signal that this game is going to become a mindless grindfest like some shovelware microtransaction mobile game or third rate mmo. When I'm trying a game and see things like that which take hours upon hours of repetition, that's a clear sign that the developers do not respect my time, and I shouldn't bother getting invested regardless how far away I am from that content.

Passionate game developers would like players to experience all the new contents that they created and respect player's time.
They want players to use the new contents (e.g. Zarr, Syndicate melees, Hema, Nidus) after getting them in a reasonable amount of time and effort.
They want players to play with the new stuffs, not to waste time playing old stuffs to get their hands on the new stuffs.
If so, players would already be so burned out that they can't be bother to even enjoy the new stuffs.

So, we should have the player Syndicate points/medallions stockpile reset whenever new Syndicate weapons come out, just so that players won't be able to get them in Day One?
Some players can even start crafting Sibear because they already got the Magistar in their inventory.
Some players can even start enjoying TWW because they completed the pre-requisite like the Junctions and Second Dream.
Those players who could get the new contents in Day One because they invested time and effort in preparation for the new content.
They deserved to get them, and not have their previous time and effort dismissed/forfeited.

P.S. Can't say the same for any developers focusing on profit. Earning profit at the expense of ruining the game.

[Tyrian3k]

48 minutes ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

The drop chance wouldn't halve that amount, but I'm sure you know how the drop chance resource booster work, don't you?

The drop chance booster does exactly what it says it does from my experience playing with and without one and unless you provide solid evidence that it doesn't, there's absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

50 minutes ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

That said, it's because of people like you that Hema research has not been changed, because complaining without using facts and our brain just makes us look overreacting and exaggerated, I'm pretty sure we would have obtained something complaining and fighting against this in a reasonable way.

If that was true, this thread wouldn't exist any more because DE would have long changed either the cost of the Heam or the drop chance of samples.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

10 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

The drop chance booster does exactly what it says it does from my experience playing with and without one and unless you provide solid evidence that it doesn't, there's absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

If that was true, this thread wouldn't exist any more because DE would have long changed either the cost of the Heam or the drop chance of samples.

The drop chance doubles the % chance of a resource to drop; meaning, that if a resource has a 1% chance of dropping, the booster will make it a 2%.

In mutagens case, they're uncommon(despite having the actual drop quantity or a rare resource) so the resource chance booster won't double the amount of mutagens you'll get because they're not 50% chance drop.

Now, look at your experience, what drop chance would you think mutagen samples have? do you feel like you get 80%? 60%?40%? I honestly feel like I get 20% mutagens dropping from each kill, meaning that the base chance would be 10% which is reasonable for an uncommon resource.

That also mean that the main difference will be made by the resource booster rather than the drop chance, so when comparing results with and without booster you'll have to cut in half and took away a bit more, definitely not too much.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[ChuckMaverick]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

The drop chance doubles the % chance of a resource to drop; meaning, that if a resource has a 1% chance of dropping, the booster will make it a 2%.

In mutagens case, they're uncommon(despite having the actual drop quantity or a rare resource) so the resource chance booster won't double the amount of mutagens you'll get because they're not 50% chance drop.

With a 1% chance to drop you get 1 mutagen sample per 100 kills, 2% chance to drop means 2 samples per 100 kills, so yes a drop chance booster does double the number you receive.

Other than that error, I do agree with your approach of using actual facts to make an argument rather than exaggeration.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

5 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

With a 1% chance to drop you get 1 mutagen sample per 100 kills, 2% chance to drop means 2 samples per 100 kills, so yes a drop chance booster does double the number you receive.

Other than that error, I do agree with your approach of using actual facts to make an argument rather than exaggeration.

Right, I mispelled that: it will double the amount you get, but it depends on RNG, so you could get 0 in 100 or 4 in 100, it heavily depends on the actual % we're talking about.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[Naskoni]

3 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

With a 1% chance to drop you get 1 mutagen sample per 100 kills, 2% chance to drop means 2 samples per 100 kills, so yes a drop chance booster does double the number you receive.

Other than that error, I do agree with your approach of using actual facts to make an argument rather than exaggeration.

Yes, actual "facts" of speculating what the droprate without any boosters is, based on his personal experience of running with both boosters since December.

Based on my personal experience, and earlier in this very thread, others, the actual increase of mutagen samples more than doubles with the drop chance booster, whatever the reason.

[ChuckMaverick]

1 minute ago, Naskoni said:

Yes, actual "facts" of speculating what the droprate without any boosters is, based on his personal experience of running with both boosters since December.

Based on my personal experience, and earlier in this very thread, others, the actual increase of mutagen samples more than doubles with the drop chance booster, whatever the reason.

I was initially running with just the resource doubling booster, as I had that on already, and added a 7-day drop chance booster to help when I decided to actively grind mutagen samples.

Based on my experience, running solo so there was no interference from others in a squad, my mutagen sample drops doubled again when I added the drop chance booster.

[Ditto132]

9 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Most people farming Kuva to reroll rivens is exactly what I meant. Trade chat is full of WTB Rivens because thats the new hot thing, and that mini credit stockpile of yours would disappear very fast if you actually tried to farm kuva to roll rivens and then sell them for thousands of plat.

Nothing is wrong with not maxing mods I simply assumed you did that long time ago after seeing your total playtime. Out of curiosity, what are you doing in the game then ?

Seem like you don't know how to spend your credits wisely. I don't just work my head off, just so I can spend more.
 

9 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Nothing is wrong with not maxing mods I simply assumed you did that long time ago after seeing your total playtime. Out of curiosity, what are you doing in the game then ?

9 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

You have 1685 in mission hours actually. I'm guessing you've spend rest afking on your ship, which is what steam is showing you

Well, you can ask @KIREEK too. I believe that @Naskoni is curious as to why he didn't obtain half of the all the things in the game.
Maybe I spent too much time on modding, testing out weapons in the Simulacrum and prioritising what mods to max in the Liset. Instead of mindlessly farming in missions.
 

9 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

It's new content and you claimed to really want more new content. I would assume you already had it, expecially considering minimal requirements of it. So wait a sec, Hema research is the worst thing ever and you would really like to have it but cost prevents you from doing so, but you didn't even bother getting Ohma ? While wanting new content so much ? Okay.

Right... assume. Have you seen me keep pestering DE to rush out more contents?
Personally, I pace out getting new contents and based on interest. Just like why I got the Zarr but not those melees that require Kuva first.
As for Hema, it doesn't really interest me that much. I'm here because the cost is ridiculous and inconsistent.
 

9 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Who knows, maybe they could have introduced completely new resource. But if numbers were the same something tells me u'd have problem with it anyway.

By design, new resources wouldn't have such an exorbitant amount of requirement.
For example, Zarr requiring 1,800. Each Kuva mission (not flood) giving 200-700, getting Zarr only need 3 to 9 runs.
So far, I played less than 20 Kuva missions.
 

9 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Doing well doesn't mean that it is right ? Wait what ? If it's doing well and is played by alot of people then they obviously enjoy playing it, or else they would simply play something else. For starters I'm comparing it to anything that is below warframe on steamcharts and I believe that list goes into thousands.

So if I were to scam new players by selling them prime items at exorbitant plat price, and I am doing well that I am right? Cash-grab is right?
So you are comparing Warframe to thousands other games that mostly required a one-time payment and doesn't really have updates frequently to keep play refreshing?
Seems like Hema is indeed a scam.
 

9 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Come on... Warframe can be better than that. If you really want to play grind, I believe that Cookie Clicker is more suitable for you.
I do not want Warframe to become the next new Cookie Clicker.

I don't even know what that is actually, but if you expect major updates every week then you are out of luck. I'd like that aswell, but I don't even see how they could make it happen without doubling their team size. Plus, then you won't even bother obtaining them anyway.

Great... Didn't even bother to find out what that is actually. Just like you didn't even bother trying out other PvE games that you used in your arguments.
Like I said above. "Personally, I pace out getting new contents and based on interest." and don't expect major updates every week.
Game development doesn't work that way, doubling team size wouldn't double their output. In fact, that would incur cost.

[Flirk2]

2 hours ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

- If a nearly perfect ODD run granted us 522 samples, that means we had 261 samples without drop booster and probably around 200 without the chance one. The drop chance wouldn't halve that amount, but I'm sure you know how the drop chance resource booster work, don't you?

Sorry, but seems like you don't know how drop chance boosters work. And by the looks of things a lot of people don't understand fully what exactly boosters do to your game experience.

If anyone in the squad has one, every squad member gets about 2 times more stuff.

about 70 samples for a full squad with a Nekros after 20 waves of ODD if you have someone who has a drop chance booster in that squad

about 35 samples for the same squad after same 20 waves of ODD but without any boosters.

It's as simple as that.

Why do you insist that you got 200 samples from 40 waves of ODD without boosters? Just calculate the drop chance and see if there was a booster involved.

1% base drop chance for mutagen samples with no boosters.

2% if anyone in the squad has a drop chance booster

4% if you have a double pickup booster and there is someone in the squad with a drop chance booster on top.

x1.6 for max for having Nekros with active Desecrate in the squad.

x2 max for having a Hydroid that kills everything with his tentacles.

Having both will combine to about x2 if they know what they are doing. Because you never get max efficiency on anything. Some bodies won't get desecrated, some enemies won't get killed by tentacles, hence the lower than expected multiplier.

With boosters, Hydroid and Nekros you get to about 8% drop chance and because of that every 1000 enemies killed will net you 80 mutagen samples.

But without? Every 1000 killed will leave you with 10 samples.

 

It was a sad day for me when DE decided to base grind level around having boosters and playing at least 4 hours every day.

Void traces, inordinate amounts of resources, credits, nerfs to stealth that all but remove solo leveling as an option...

At some point, boosters were supposed to be a way for people with little time to play the game to have access to game's content.

Now it seems you have to have both time and money to access the content. Or just plain live in a loot cave.

Next thing you know, living in a loot cave won't be enough, and you'll need to live in a loot cave with the boosters on.

All because instead of giving players who play the game way, way too much something to use resources on they started to base prices on those players' stockpiles.

The only thing... people who are OK with being ''loot cave men'' are rarely inclined to spend money on the game.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

30 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Sorry, but seems like you don't know how drop chance boosters work. And by the looks of things a lot of people don't understand fully what exactly boosters do to your game experience.

If anyone in the squad has one, every squad member gets about 2 times more stuff.

about 70 samples for a full squad with a Nekros after 20 waves of ODD if you have someone who has a drop chance booster in that squad

about 35 samples for the same squad after same 20 waves of ODD but without any boosters.

It's as simple as that.

Why do you insist that you got 200 samples from 40 waves of ODD without boosters? Just calculate the drop chance and see if there was a booster involved.

1% base drop chance for mutagen samples with no boosters.

2% if anyone in the squad has a drop chance booster

4% if you have a double pickup booster and there is someone in the squad with a drop chance booster on top.

x1.6 for max for having Nekros with active Desecrate in the squad.

x2 max for having a Hydroid that kills everything with his tentacles.

Having both will combine to about x2 if they know what they are doing. Because you never get max efficiency on anything. Some bodies won't get desecrated, some enemies won't get killed by tentacles, hence the lower than expected multiplier.

With boosters, Hydroid and Nekros you get to about 8% drop chance and because of that every 1000 enemies killed will net you 80 mutagen samples.

But without? Every 1000 killed will leave you with 10 samples.

 

It was a sad day for me when DE decided to base grind level around having boosters and playing at least 4 hours every day.

Void traces, inordinate amounts of resources, credits, nerfs to stealth that all but remove solo leveling as an option...

At some point, boosters were supposed to be a way for people with little time to play the game to have access to game's content.

Now it seems you have to have both time and money to access the content. Or just plain live in a loot cave.

Next thing you know, living in a loot cave won't be enough, and you'll need to live in a loot cave with the boosters on.

All because instead of giving players who play the game way, way too much something to use resources on they started to base prices on those players' stockpiles.

The only thing... people who are OK with being ''loot cave men'' are rarely inclined to spend money on the game.

Thanks for explaining it to me with numbers and sorry to everyone I involved in my posts about the drop chance boosters, my sincere apologies, especially to @Naskoni and @Tyrian3k.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[Flirk2]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

Thanks for explaining it to me with numbers

You are welcome. And don't feel too bad about it. DE forgot about this themselves, if you go by what they say on this matter. :-)

[John89brensen]

6 hours ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

Anyway, just wanted to point out that 200/400 without/with boosters is a correct estimate for 40 waves of ODD; I still think it's a poor number tho.

In my experience 30 waves in ODD, no boosters and with a Hydroid and Nekros, yield around 80 MS. 120 more in 10 more waves sounds like a lot. 200 might be more like a maximum without boosters, the a average might be a bit over 100.