Vay Hek Is Broken. De Please Fix.

[Lukap99]

I was grinding drones in Everest, which is a boss... level ( I still don't know what those things are. Space ships maybe?). So I was fighting Hek, and after spending 2 lives I realised how utterly broken and unbalanced he is.

1. Instant shield regen.

 

I noticed that his shields regenerate the second you're not damaging him. I ussualy don't have a problem with bosses that regen instantly when you're not damaging them. It encourages a more aggresive tactic towards the boss, which is not a ussual strategy vs bosses in games. But the problem is that his shields regen - short story: way to fast; long story: waaaaaaaaay to fast. And you can't switch to your secondary weapon because you're too slow. And unless you're using a weapon with really fast reload time and a s**t ton of bullets, you're probably not going to damage his health very much. Even in co-op it takes way to long to damage him. This is also a problem with most bosses.

 

2. Get back here you sissy girl.

 

Not only does he pretty much have instant regen shield. He also runs away when his shield are low. If it were his health, it would be much less annoying ( still annoying but at least it would make sense. Who wouldn't want to run away if his health were low?)

 

3. Hey! Stop using aim-bot you hacker!

Hek uses the hek shotgun ( which I presume is why that gun is named hek). It has a VERY TIGHT SPREAD of bullets. It's essentially a hybrid of a sniper and a shotgun, it also fires in semi-auto. However unline other grinner, whose bullets miss you if you go fast ( Sorry for going of topic here: but the warframes themselves aren't very agile or fast. And the parkour is very clunky and un-polished. I hope U9 gets a bigger focus on movement rather than actual content). However Vay Hek eaither has a very good shot, or just uses aimbot. I'm serious. If he can see you, he can shoot you. And he never seems to run out of bullets.

 

4. Unfliching. Even when shot with a 50 cal. snipertron in the head.

 

Pretty self explanatory. Even when using the dragon kick (mid air slide) he doesn't flinch ( or fall over like he should ). He just does not want to fall down. Not to mention that he is just a regular Grineer (not even a heavy, just a regular). And now for a general game problem. The enemies ( all factions ) don't react much when being shot at. You would expect them to recoil a bit, but no. This only servers a visual reprisentation of your bullets hitting the enemy, but it also makes the game more realistic ( and more fun when you headshot people. Thier heads recoil like bobble heads ). In warframe the only flinching you will find is when you hit an enemy with a weapon that has been modded with a "stagger" mod. The same applies to meele weapons. You'd expect to react to a katan slashing you, this isn't a 2D game people.


( NOTE: I apologize for any bad use of punctuation and/or grammar. English isn't my main language. )

( NOTE #2: Getting up faster should be a game mechanic, not a mod DE. Why would I equip a mod to get up faster when I could equip mods that boost the better stats of my warframe? It's like EV training. You don't give speed or special attack EV to a slow-physical pokémon like torterra. )

[Seanjuju]

A fine boss indeed

[KamaNightfire]

Dread w/ AP + Serration + Split-Chamber + Elementals + Vital Sense + Sonar = 7k+ damage

Just have someone to party with to help keep his shields down, try to find a Banshee with " Sonar " and you'll do wonders :3

[Archistopheles]

Awww. You poor thing... Want me to come help kill him for you?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

While he's not that tough for players with proper mods and guns, he is the epitome of bullet sponge.

Edited July 6, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[sambarpowder]

Asteroid base

( I still don't know what those things are. Space ships maybe?)

[AscendantWyvern]

Once you figure out how to keep the shield down, he's easy peasy.

[philleapa]

I was grinding drones in Everest, which is a boss... level ( I still don't know what those things are. Space ships maybe?). So I was fighting Hek, and after spending 2 lives I realised how utterly broken and unbalanced he is.

1. Instant shield regen.

 

I noticed that his shields regenerate the second you're not damaging him. I ussualy don't have a problem with bosses that regen instantly when you're not damaging them. It encourages a more aggresive tactic towards the boss, which is not a ussual strategy vs bosses in games. But the problem is that his shields regen - short story: way to fast; long story: waaaaaaaaay to fast. And you can't switch to your secondary weapon because you're too slow. And unless you're using a weapon with really fast reload time and a s**t ton of bullets, you're probably not going to damage his health very much. Even in co-op it takes way to long to damage him. This is also a problem with most bosses.

 

2. Get back here you sissy girl.

 

Not only does he pretty much have instant regen shield. He also runs away when his shield are low. If it were his health, it would be much less annoying ( still annoying but at least it would make sense. Who wouldn't want to run away if his health were low?)

 

3. Hey! Stop using aim-bot you hacker!

Hek uses the hek shotgun ( which I presume is why that gun is named hek). It has a VERY TIGHT SPREAD of bullets. It's essentially a hybrid of a sniper and a shotgun, it also fires in semi-auto. However unline other grinner, whose bullets miss you if you go fast ( Sorry for going of topic here: but the warframes themselves aren't very agile or fast. And the parkour is very clunky and un-polished. I hope U9 gets a bigger focus on movement rather than actual content). However Vay Hek eaither has a very good shot, or just uses aimbot. I'm serious. If he can see you, he can shoot you. And he never seems to run out of bullets.

 

4. Unfliching. Even when shot with a 50 cal. snipertron in the head.

 

Pretty self explanatory. Even when using the dragon kick (mid air slide) he doesn't flinch ( or fall over like he should ). He just does not want to fall down. Not to mention that he is just a regular Grineer (not even a heavy, just a regular). And now for a general game problem. The enemies ( all factions ) don't react much when being shot at. You would expect them to recoil a bit, but no. This only servers a visual reprisentation of your bullets hitting the enemy, but it also makes the game more realistic ( and more fun when you headshot people. Thier heads recoil like bobble heads ). In warframe the only flinching you will find is when you hit an enemy with a weapon that has been modded with a "stagger" mod. The same applies to meele weapons. You'd expect to react to a katan slashing you, this isn't a 2D game people.

( NOTE: I apologize for any bad use of punctuation and/or grammar. English isn't my main language. )

( NOTE #2: Getting up faster should be a game mechanic, not a mod DE. Why would I equip a mod to get up faster when I could equip mods that boost the better stats of my warframe? It's like EV training. You don't give speed or special attack EV to a slow-physical pokémon like torterra. )

 

I see this more of as a complaint rather than anything else. first of all its easy to kill Vay Hek just get a mag and use bullet attractor on him problem solved or actually get yourself a good weapon like the kunai or despair, 

And no i totally disagree with you about speed needing a mod, your saying that a tanky rhino should have the same speed as a light armoured squishy Loki (correct if i misinterpreted you) it wouldn't be fair and if you want to go faster just pay up a few mod points and a mod slot otherwise get yourself some duel zoren or fang, you gotta learn to use your environment to your advantage, the easiest way to do that is to use the quick wall run technique where you just start a wall run the let go of jump and you get launched a tremendous distance, I just think you haven't been using the movement mechanics to their full extent.

[Destro6677]

I think the whole point of Hek is to BE a ridiculously tanky bullet sponge.

 

Also, try shooting him with bolt weapons. He staggers on every hit, making it impossible to land headshots at medium range.

[Xievie]

I was grinding drones in Everest, which is a boss... level ( I still don't know what those things are. Space ships maybe?). So I was fighting Hek, and after spending 2 lives I realised how utterly broken and unbalanced he is.

1. Instant shield regen.

 

[...]

 

2. Get back here you sissy girl.

 

[...]

 

3. Hey! Stop using aim-bot you hacker!

[...]

 

4. Unfliching. Even when shot with a 50 cal. snipertron in the head.

 

[...]

 

1. Without it, he's gonna be too easy to kill.

2. Goddamn, that's the thing that makes Vay Hek, Vay Hek. I like how he hides. No other boss hides. This defines Vay Hek's boss fight.

3. If he could miss, what is gonna be the challenge with this boss?

4. Tell that to all of the other goddamn enemies in the game.

 

It sounds like you want this boss to be easy. We don't like easy. We don't like tank-and-spank.

 

Combining 1 and 2 define Vay Hek's boss fight. The problem with him hiding and having shields regen fast means you are gonna want to stay on his &#! the whole time.

Putting 3 on top of that makes it so that you can actually die.

4 doesn't matter to me. Since when do bosses flinch in most games? See Nef Anyo? A single Kunai (with electric) to the fast staggers him. He'll be dead in three more Kunai.

 

Honestly, Vay Hek is fine how he is.

 

There are a few ways to solve Vay Hek and his problem with running for cover:

1) Kill him before he hides.

2) Have a Loki use Switch Teleport before he hides behind cover. (also block him before he tried to go back into cover. He can't clip through players)

3) Snowglobe.

4) Saryn's Miasma (stuns him for a while. takes me two Miasmas and a S#&$load of Despairs to bring him down)

5) Don't fight him at all.

 

Edit: If any boss is broken, it's Ambulas. You can bug him to the point that he can't fight back.

 

I see this more of as a complaint rather than anything else. first of all its easy to kill Vay Hek just get a mag and use bullet attractor 

 

Nobody likes you Mags. Especially me as a Banshee user who uses Sonar on bosses.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Andral

[philleapa]

 

 

1. Without it, he's gonna be too easy to kill.

2. Goddamn, that's the thing that makes Vay Hek, Vay Hek. I like how he hides. No other boss hides. This defines Vay Hek's boss fight.

3. If he could miss, what is gonna be the challenge with this boss?

4. Tell that to all of the other goddamn enemies in the game.

 

It sounds like you want this boss to be easy. We don't like easy. We don't like tank-and-spank.

 

Combining 1 and 2 define Vay Hek's boss fight. The problem with him hiding and having shields regen fast means you are gonna want to stay on his &#! the whole time.

Putting 3 on top of that makes it so that you can actually die.

4 doesn't matter to me. Since when do bosses flinch in most games? See Nef Anyo? A single Kunai (with electric) to the fast staggers him. He'll be dead in three more Kunai.

 

Honestly, Vay Hek is fine how he is.

 

There are a few ways to solve Vay Hek and his problem with running for cover:

1) Kill him before he hides.

2) Have a Loki use Switch Teleport before he hides behind cover. (also block him before he tried to go back into cover. He can't clip through players)

3) Snowglobe.

4) Saryn's Miasma (stuns him for a while. takes me two Miasmas and a S#&$load of Despairs to bring him down)

5) Don't fight him at all.

 

 

Nobody likes you Mags. Especially me as a Banshee user who uses Sonar on bosses.

 

 I sold my mag before i was able to obtain more slots and thats a mean thing to say about mag's i think what you meant to say no one likes the trolling loki who constantly spams switch teleport on you screwing you over while mag just has some awesome and helpful abilities especially with the new buff.

 

 

ALSO if you wanna ragdoll hek just get kestrel and use charge attack on him or use jump down attack on him and you're set.

[Xylia]

Honestly, I think we really should be figuring out more ways to make bosses challenging other than "give them a shotgun/rocket launcher and give them ridiculous health and shields".

 

Lech Kril is an awesome boss. He's got actual mechanics, and tactics. He does more than hide and regenerate shields.

Jackal is a good boss (though extremely high level Jackals need work) if you fight him at appropriate level.

Sargas Ruk is a good boss; you can't just pew-pew him to death.

 

Bosses like Vay Hek and Kela are nothing but bullet sponges with big weapons.

 

Surely we can do better than this. Kela has a rocket launcher and roller balls, Vay Hek only has his shotgun so they probably think "meh we'll give him near-instant shield recharge".

 

Very few guns, even with reload mods, can reload before he starts regenerating his shields.

 

Apparently, they think players should be restricted to certain Warframes, or have endless magazines or something.

 

That's my problem with the guy. You can't stop shooting for a second before he's got his shields back.

[Toom1275]

Saryn's Venom is a nice tool for keeping his shields from regenerating as soon as you stop shooting him. In addition, While Molt may die quickly, it's usually a good enough distraction to draw at least a couple of his shots from you.

[Xievie]

 I sold my mag before i was able to obtain more slots and thats a mean thing to say about mag's i think what you meant to say no one likes the trolling loki who constantly spams switch teleport on you screwing you over while mag just has some awesome and helpful abilities especially with the new buff.

 

 

ALSO if you wanna ragdoll hek just get kestrel and use charge attack on him or use jump down attack on him and you're set.

 

I was a little sarcastic when I said nobody likes Mags, but silly me, I forgot the sarcasm font was nerfed.

 

But really, a lot of people dislike Bullet Attractor because it takes away the ability to hit weakspots and lowers the damage your team does be a lot. 

Pull and Crush, I admit are somewhat useful, but Bullet Attractor usually HURTS a team.

 

Oh, and the trolling Loki is so rare that it's hardly an issue. Besides, everybody how calls Loki a troll warframe just wants something to blame just because they can.

If you want a trolly warframe, go for Vauban. You can make people bleed out because of your Vortex.

 

Oh, and don't respond. I don't want to make this off topic arguement go further in this thread.

[Ghobe]

Hek is hard? But he's so oneshottable...

 

 

But seriously. Before you have upgraded mods, bosses are not intended to be solo'd. Get a friend or two.

[Anunymau5]

Dude he's meant to be fought with multiple players. Soloing Hek is a nightmare!

[philleapa]

I was a little sarcastic when I said nobody likes Mags, but silly me, I forgot the sarcasm font was nerfed.

 

But really, a lot of people dislike Bullet Attractor because it takes away the ability to hit weakspots and lowers the damage your team does be a lot. 

Pull and Crush, I admit are somewhat useful, but Bullet Attractor usually HURTS a team.

 

Oh, and the trolling Loki is so rare that it's hardly an issue. Besides, everybody how calls Loki a troll warframe just wants something to blame just because they can.

If you want a trolly warframe, go for Vauban. You can make people bleed out because of your Vortex.

 

Oh, and don't respond. I don't want to make this off topic arguement go further in this thread.

Lol sorry then didn't catch that sarcasm, and not going to argue when no point is needed, and i am talking about bullet attractor in solo or if you're about to die so you can have him shoot his own shields down and for you to add some damage to that  other than complaining about his shields regen too fast find other ways of dealing with him.

[Xievie]

Hek is hard? But he's so oneshottable...

 

 

But seriously. Before you have upgraded mods, bosses are not intended to be solo'd. Get a friend or two.

 

What I don't even

[BioCharge]

Dethcube is also particularly good at suppressing shields, as long as you don't get LOS'ed by the boss, Dethcube will just keep his shield down while you actually do the killing.

[Sesshou01]

Honestly, for new players, he is far too tanky.  Sure, I can kill him no problem and getting any veteran in the mission and the group can kill him no problem.  However, try it with a group of mastery 1-2 players and it is fairly ridiculous.  It would be fine if he was on a high end planet, but Earth isn't a high end planet.  By the time you get to Earth, you don't have a high level serration and multi shot for AP/AI weapons (usually, I'm sure there are people insanely lucky with getting rare mods really early on).

 

I'm not in favor of making things easier, I just think maybe he should be swapped with another boss or a different type of challenge added instead of 'omg I shot him with all my bullets and he isn't dead wtf do I do now.'

Edited July 6, 2013 by Sesshou01

[Ghobe]

Everyone keep in mind, that Hek has yet to see his revamp. It's fairly useless to complain about him unless some patch literally makes him unkillable between now and then.

[Lukap99]

I was talking about soloing the boss. With co op you can just shoot him until he dies, plus it requires no tactics. Every boss should be solo-able and require some sort of tactic to defeat. In co-op he is just a bullet sponge on legs, in solo he's still a bullet sponge on legs, only you can't damage him fast enough to actually do some damage. As for my other point I think I should add a bit more detail on what I mean.

 

When I talked about flinching I didn't mean him staggering ( well actually I did, he can't fall over. He's a regular sized grineer, and no mattar what armor you're wearing you're always suceptible to falling over ), I meant him reacting to getting shot at. EX: in Halo: reach when you headshot someone with a pistol his head recoils a bit. Example:

( This is a terrible example, and I feel like a terrible person for using it). Go to 01:30 if link doesn't work properly.

 

 

Combining 1 and 2 define Vay Hek's boss fight. The problem with him hiding and having shields regen fast means you are gonna want to stay on his &#! the whole time.

Putting 3 on top of that makes it so that you can actually die.

The problem with having high shields and fast shield regen is that weapons that don't either have armor ignor, an imensly large clip or huge damage output don't have a chance of scratcing his health. And since you can't switch weapons fast enough you STILL won't have a chance damaging him. Meeleing is to dangerous because you can't charge fast enough to do any damage, normal attacks aren't any better either. The fact that he can't miss encourages going into cover ( something DE want's to avoid at all costs. If only they stop trying to get rid of rushers... ). Unless you use some ridiculous power and weapon combo ( bullet atractor and kestrel. How does a boomerang even do that? ). Putting 3 on top makes him broken. If he can't miss how am I supposed to protect myself? I also noticed that sometimes 2 heks spawn. One a lvl 1 and the other a regular one that counts if you kill him.

[tsubasakuroi]

I also noticed that sometimes 2 heks spawn. One a lvl 1 and the other a regular one that counts if you kill him.

Those are just decoys

 

Potatoed and modded Kunai/Despairs can easily solo Hek. I don't have any trouble in agreeing that he's a lame boss fight and really needs a rework instead of being another boring bullet sponge and his high defenses only make it much worse for newer players now. :/

[Ghobe]

I'll say it again. He has a rework coming somewhere down the pipeline. He's just not the top priority right now(Golem and Vor are next, Sargas Ruk and Jackal after that). Quite a few bosses still need reworks, and that's because their current forms are placeholders, not the actual final form of the boss fight.

 

As to his current state. A dethcube with a decent level of guardian is all you really need at a low level. Take the time to get that 100k for the bp and then craft it. Most bosses become a lot easier with that(night and day difference) for several reasons.

#1 You now have a near constant damage source preventing shields from recovering.

#2 You now have something else to absorb damage in your fight.

#3 You essentially  have 2 lives thanks to Guardian. And don't forget Guardian has a fairly short cooldown and until you have quite a bit of damage, it will see quite a bit of use in a boss fight. Level 3 Guardian is capable of restoring over 600 shields!

 

Also keep in mind, not every weapon is designed to be a boss killing weapon. Snipers fall into this category harder than anything else. Yes, you can mod them to eventually be capable of killing the boss with a single blow, but that's not the point. They aren't meant to do it. Boss killing weapons, especially Hek-like bosses, tend to be fast firing with high clip capacity. There's nothing really wrong with that either. You might whine that your other weapons don't work as well, but bosses exist that make those other weapons great too: Kril, Phorid, and Jackal for examples.

[Rhorge]

Solution to Hek: don't fight him unless you have the gear for it.