Allow new players to replace quitters on endless missions

[Shockwave-]

6 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

 

I don't see a problem with players inheriting the current level of bonuses if they join a mission late, it's just trading increased difficulty for increased rewards.

But too many people would. What if I have a problem with that? Why should you get to join my game that I worked for for 45 minutes, and get a flawless relic at wave 50 after you've only played 5 minutes?  Or jump in with all the resource bonuses? That's not fair. I had to work 50 minutes to get that flawless.bonus. Now we will have people joining, quitting, joining, quitting, joining quitting, hoping to hit an endless that's really far in.

What if Someone crashes? They get the option to rejoin the squad when they log back in. So you can't have anyone join you until they have had a chance to do that.. how would that work?

What if I get a greifer or afk person join in the first 5 waves? well then i quit and restart and no issue. What 4 of us go to 50 and one leaves but the other 3 decide to go for that radiant relic at 75.... and a griefer or afk person joins us at wave 50.... now we have to choose to carry them or quit and waste all that time.....

Now you have to add a checkbox on MY screen saying "allow people to join me past wave 5" and if anyone in the squad doesn't have that checked off then nobody can join. This has to be a choice from BOTH sides otherwise DE will get complaints AND you have to insert some kind of timer that says nobody can join for at least 5 minutes after someone leaves because the crashed person needs that time to get back in, but now if someone leaves right off the bat because they don't like a frame they see or something then it's 5 minutes until anyone else can possibly join.

This would become quite complex, quite fast.

[Snib]

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

But too many people would. What if I have a problem with that? Why should you get to join my game that I worked for for 45 minutes, and get a flawless relic at wave 50 after you've only played 5 minutes?  Or jump in with all the resource bonuses? That's not fair. I had to work 50 minutes to get that flawless.bonus. Now we will have people joining, quitting, joining, quitting, joining quitting, hoping to hit an endless that's really far in.

What if Someone crashes? They get the option to rejoin the squad when they log back in. So you can't have anyone join you until they have had a chance to do that.. how would that work?

Crashing wouldn't be affected, if you crash you do not leave the squad.

And going to 50 in a public game? When does that ever happen? But say you actually joined that one in a million public squad that did that, why would you not want someone replace the guy you lost? You're either there for loot or affinity, and both are better with a full squad (more spawns, in fissures more rewards to choose from). 

Edited January 31, 2017 by Snib

[MagPrime]

Sorry, don't see a need for this. If you want to go endlessly on a mission, make a team. 

There have been times where I wanted to go a full 20 minutes but things like medical emergencies, work, nephews, etc. have come up and I've had to leave ASAP.  Does that make me a griefer? Nope.  It just means life got in the way of a video game. 

And you can't really call someone a troll for leaving at the 5 min/wave mark when you don't know why they're leaving.  It could be any one of the situation above, or they aren't confident enough that they can solo it, maybe they've tried and failed, maybe they planned on staying but had some kind of conflict with the teams tactic/Warframe choice.  You don't know.

[Shockwave-]

3 hours ago, Snib said:

Crashing wouldn't be affected, if you crash you do not leave the squad.

And going to 50 in a public game? When does that ever happen? But say you actually joined that one in a million public squad that did that, why would you not want someone replace the guy you lost? You're either there for loot or affinity, and both are better with a full squad (more spawns, in fissures more rewards to choose from). 

First of all, crashing you do leave the squad, you disappear from the roster. Not sure how it's coded behind the scenes but I swear someone has crashed out right away when my friends and I play and someone joined taking their spot if it was early. Just try it, join with a friend on a popular mission, have him Alt F4 and see if someone else joins you before he logs back in, pretty sure they can.

As for the endless, sorry, but you are whacked. I go to 50 ALL THE TIME. I've gone to 75 a few times too. My and my wife go to 50 and 75 routinely in defense. Yes we start public for the additional affinity (40 waves actually nets you 100K affinity for the day due to the bonuses). Do the other two random people stay to 50 NO. And that is EXACTLY the point. WE stay to 50 and when they leave at 20 or 40 we would get new joiners that might be unwanted. If they leave at 40 I have my 100K focus, and don't NEED any more people, and don't need the loot, so the reduced spawns are actually a bonus is going from 40 to 50 in that case. We don't want to RISK a griefer or Afk person joining at wave 40 and be forced to play 35 waves to 75 with such a person or give up our 40 waves of progress.  Besides it's not up to YOU to say we should WANT more affinity or spawns and shouldn't care about someone piggybacking on 5 waves to a flawless relic, that's simply not up to you. It would be wrong of DE to allow people to join your mission at wave 45 without you opting in (and by you i mean the whole squad)

So that is not a "one in a million occurrence" so stop with the belittling remarks. For me taking a "pub" to 50/75 is a nearly every day occurrence.

 

[ChuckMaverick]

3 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

First of all, crashing you do leave the squad, you disappear from the roster. Not sure how it's coded behind the scenes but I swear someone has crashed out right away when my friends and I play and someone joined taking their spot if it was early. Just try it, join with a friend on a popular mission, have him Alt F4 and see if someone else joins you before he logs back in, pretty sure they can.

Alt-F4 alone isn't a crash, a better test would be to have a friend pull his internet connection, Alt-F4 Warframe, reconnect internet and try to get back into the mission.

[Snib]

6 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

First of all, crashing you do leave the squad, you disappear from the roster. Not sure how it's coded behind the scenes but I swear someone has crashed out right away when my friends and I play and someone joined taking their spot if it was early. Just try it, join with a friend on a popular mission, have him Alt F4 and see if someone else joins you before he logs back in, pretty sure they can.

Hmm, now that you say that I'm not sure, can you even reconnect to a public squad then? I usually go invite only and I'm certain that there you can. Maybe it's different for public.

6 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

As for the endless, sorry, but you are whacked. I go to 50 ALL THE TIME. I've gone to 75 a few times too. My and my wife go to 50 and 75 routinely in defense. Yes we start public for the additional affinity (40 waves actually nets you 100K affinity for the day due to the bonuses). Do the other two random people stay to 50 NO. And that is EXACTLY the point.

...

So that is not a "one in a million occurrence" so stop with the belittling remarks. For me taking a "pub" to 50/75 is a nearly every day occurrence

That is indeed exactly the point. The other randoms don't stay until 50 minutes and that's all I said. Only you and your wife, the pre-made portion of the squad, stays around. And the one throwing the insults here is you my friend, just saying.

6 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

If they leave at 40 I have my 100K focus, and don't NEED any more people, and don't need the loot, so the reduced spawns are actually a bonus is going from 40 to 50 in that case. We don't want to RISK a griefer or Afk person joining at wave 40 and be forced to play 35 waves to 75 with such a person or give up our 40 waves of progress.  Besides it's not up to YOU to say we should WANT more affinity or spawns and shouldn't care about someone piggybacking on 5 waves to a flawless relic, that's simply not up to you. It would be wrong of DE to allow people to join your mission at wave 45 without you opting in (and by you i mean the whole squad)

So much anger... I think I'll just opt-out of discussing this further with you but I'll just mention that if you play in invite-only mode your wife and you will be perfectly safe from any "griefer or Afk person" joining your team, maybe that's something for you to look into. 

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, Snib said:

That is indeed exactly the point. The other randoms don't stay until 50 minutes and that's all I said. Only you and your wife, the pre-made portion of the squad, stays around. And the one throwing the insults here is you my friend, just saying.

So much anger... I think I'll just opt-out of discussing this further with you but I'll just mention that if you play in invite-only mode your wife and you will be perfectly safe from any "griefer or Afk person" joining your team, maybe that's something for you to look into. 

Huh? Your train of thought is bouncing all around. You stated nobody goes to 50 in a public game, it's a one in million shot, I just explained how you were mistaken and it's a regular occurance and you gloss right over that in favor this odd response. You never said "the other randoms don't stay" you said nobody goes to 50 in a public squad. The situation i described is a public squad. You are claiming you said something different than what you said in your previous post. It doesn't matter who stays around the selection on the squad is "public".

I haven't thrown a single insult yet, nor did I say you threw an insult but ok.

No anger at all, just a desire to cut through to some logical discussions. You took your whole post to do ad hominems instead of discuss the points that were raised. People who play public don't want to play in invite only mode, everyone knows that's an option. How would you get people to randomly join you (as I stated was the desire) in an invite only mode?

I still see no case for allowing people to join after the first reward, and you haven't really stated one, so it's not a discussion in any case.

[Snib]

@Shockwave- please... You are disregarding the context now. We are in the context of discussing someone joining your game after someone else just left, so your public squad would have stayed together until 45, and that's what I called extremely rare. Also it was a given that you yourself would be going to 50, why else would you be discussing it? And in my first post in this thread I said that I myself am also staying in mission after the randoms leave, although unlike you I would enjoy others joining to fill up the team again. 

33 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

No anger at all, just a desire to cut through to some logical discussions. You took your whole post to do ad hominems instead of discuss the points that were raised. People who play public don't want to play in invite only mode, everyone knows that's an option. How would you get people to randomly join you (as I stated was the desire) in an invite only mode?

I still see no case for allowing people to join after the first reward, and you haven't really stated one, so it's not a discussion in any case.

Again, the only person that was throwing insults is you. And to get to the "logic":

You play public because you DO want people to randomly join you but ONLY for the first minute or two of the game, after which you DO NOT want people to randomly join your team.

You get angry when I suggest that people may want to play public because they DO want people to randomly join their game WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS  (for the reasons I stated above, more loot options, more affinity, and also because it's less boring). 

See, I understand you and your logic, it's all good, nothing to discuss anymore, your way to play the game is as valid as mine, no reason to get worked up over it.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Snib

[Shockwave-]

20 minutes ago, Snib said:

@Shockwave- please... You are disregarding the context now. We are in the context of discussing someone joining your game after someone else just left, so your public squad would have stayed together until 45, and that's what I called extremely rare. Also it was a given that you yourself would be going to 50, why else would you be discussing it? And in my first post in this thread I said that I myself am also staying in mission after the randoms leave, although unlike you I would enjoy others joining to fill up the team again. 

Again, the only person that was throwing insults is you. And to get to the "logic":

You play public because you DO want people to randomly join you but ONLY for the first minute or two of the game, after which you DO NOT want people to randomly join your team.

You get angry when I suggest that people may want to play public because they DO want people to randomly join their game WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS  (for the reasons I stated above, more loot options, more affinity, and also because it's less boring). 

See, I understand you and your logic, it's all good, nothing to discuss anymore, your way to play the game is as valid as mine, no reason to get worked up over it.

"You play public because you DO want people to randomly join you but ONLY for the first minute or two of the game, after which you DO NOT want people to randomly join your team."

BUt you mischaracterize literlaly every point you make. You can not tell people what they are feeling. I am not angry. I disagree with the suggestion. I play public because i want to play public with people, but that doesn't necessarily extend to having people join 40 minutes in. Nobody said "first minute or two. It's always about 5 minutes. And 5 minutes is about what you need tio figure out if you like playing with those people. I might hate a certain frame, or I might join a squad with 4 of the SAME frame. There are legitimate considerations for aborting a mission in those first 5 minutes.

But nobody wants to get 40 minutes in and have people leave and hve 3 identical frames join them. Or a griefer, or an afker. those things are fine early on, you can abort, but this suggestion means you'd have to live with it or abort your hard won rewards. You seem to missing these legitimate points in favor of a false narrative you made up.

"We are in the context of discussing someone joining your game after someone else just left, so your public squad would have stayed together until 45, and that's what I called extremely rare."

Yes and it happens to me DAILY, so it's not extremely rare. At least round 20, sometimes 40, but it happens routinely as I described, yet you call it extremely rare, sorry it's not, and with the survival change it will even more common.

"You get angry when I suggest that people may want to play public because they DO want people to randomly join their game WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS  (for the reasons I stated above, more loot options, more affinity, and also because it's less boring). "

Never. Not angry. I said people would not want that, and DE would have to create an opt in for that. I never disagreed that SOME people would want to play public without restrictions,I simply said it woudl get overly complicated with coding for 100% opt in and opt out.  i took issue when you said, specifically that  I SHOULD WANT (notice you telling me what I want) people to join to get more affinity and loot, and I explained why that was incorrect of you to assume.

 

Regardless DE really can't allow people to join without restrictions in the public game, without opt in, as I said there would be people extremely upset and since it's pretty unfair to those people, I doubt they'd do that. I never took issue with you wanting to play that way, only with trying to force others to play that way.

[Snib]

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

Nobody said "first minute or two. It's always about 5 minutes.

Defense takes about 1m30 to 2 minutes for the first 5 waves, you're thinking survival. In addition, in fissures you can only join within the first 60% (or something like that) of the round because late joiners complained they didn't have enough time to pick up reactant.

However, again, context. The exact actual time it takes was clearly not my point.

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

But nobody wants to get 40 minutes in and have people leave and hve 3 identical frames join them. Or a griefer, or an afker. those things are fine early on, you can abort, but this suggestion means you'd have to live with it or abort your hard won rewards. You seem to missing these legitimate points in favor of a false narrative you made up.

You take offense to me supposedly telling you want you want, yet look at you. I said several times now that I do want this. The OP of this thread wants it. So far it's mainly just you not wanting it. So who's making things up?

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

"We are in the context of discussing someone joining your game after someone else just left, so your public squad would have stayed together until 45, and that's what I called extremely rare."

Yes and it happens to me DAILY, so it's not extremely rare. At least round 20, sometimes 40, but it happens routinely as I described, yet you call it extremely rare, sorry it's not, and with the survival change it will even more common.

In that case your game experience differs very much from my own, and I'd consider you very lucky. I have not once managed to get a random team that would stay until 40 in a fissure (35 is my record with randoms and that was a singular experience). And that's assuming with "round" you actually mean defense wave, not actual round/reward interval, because in the latter case I'd have to dismiss this as a fairy tale.

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

 I never took issue with you wanting to play that way, only with trying to force others to play that way.

Again, making things up. If you refer to my very first post in this thread you'll see that I suggested a checkbox. I'm not trying to force anybody. Except maybe you to stick to the truth. ;)

[ChuckMaverick]

What I've seen happen in other games that may help with the opt-in complexity for those still running is that when someone leaves the remaining players get to vote if they want to grab a replacement player or not.

[TaintedReality]

I remember joining Akkad a few times and having a person leave after wave 5 and getting upset. I said nothing to the person but the whole time I was like "Why tf would you come to Akkad just to leave after 5 waves?". I then went into a public interception fissure mission and asked my fellow squad members if they would have liked to stay for 10 waves. We eventually agreed on 20. 3 minutes into the mission I got a call from someone and it was an emergency and I had to leave right then and there but I didn't wait until the round was complete I just left so another player could hopefully join.

Point is, people have many reasons for hopping into a squad and leaving. I guess, just be a little more understanding.

If you can't, just run INV only squads with trusted people. Make a lot of friends so that when you need to do these long missions, you always have people willing. Sometimes these solutions have to come from the player rather than the company because tayloring the system to some people's demands will definitely cause a problem for the people who were fine with it before. This causes unnecessary conflict. 

After 5 minutes the objective is complete. I do feel like in survival missions people should be able to extract at any point in time after the objective is completed but to join anytime they want after the objective is completed is..I don't see it happening.