Rhino's Opness

[geninrising]

OMG everyone is complaining about Rhino's IS being bad, buuuuuut has anyone actually been in a defense mission with a good Rhino player?????

Ran two times through wave 30 on IO. Only got touched on wave 30.  

Rhino kills everything or makes everything helpless, CONSTANTLY.

Stop complaining because you want invincibility and realize the true potential of your frame.

Oh and one more thing. You should never be standing still trying to tank high lvl mobs as this is suicide(common sense in a space ninja game) ninjas move around, Sherman tanks sit still.

[SniffYoBunnies]

Pretty good for a first post.but try to be more calm and explain things more...inteligently?IDK I aint ´Murican.

-Though I agree with you,every frame is good when the player knows how to use and how he WANTS to use it.

[Jeraggerjack]

The issue is with one of rhino's abilities not scaling to higher level/end game content like other frame abilities do.

Imagine if overheat and snowglobe had the same mechanics that iron skin does now. They'd work fine in lower level missions, but once you start hitting higher level / end game content, they'd become almost useless pretty quick.

It has nothing to do with Rhino being OP / UP.

I'd really like it if they gave similar abilities on other frames a similar cap mechanic for a week just to watch the flood of tears drown the forums. Snowglobe and overheat with a 1200 damage absorption cap especially. Experience is the best teacher, after all.

[Satwo]

i know that i shamed an ember on xini up to wave 30. i was being tactful with my roflstomp, where she was using her WoF at the last minute to save. i ended up stomping out squishies up to wave 20, and still never went through a whole clip on less then 2 ancients from my strun all the way to the end.

dunno why the ember was so pissy, but APPARENTLY me doing MY JOB in defense is enough to get yelled at by someone who wants kills.

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

I think the major problem with Rhino's Iron Skin has a hard cap, and another frame *cough*Ember*cough* has a % reduction. Any hard limit on amount of damage absorbed will be worthless on higher level defense runs, leaving you with no energy very fast as you spam the skill. Personally I would find a damage % reduction like Overheat preferable over 1560 max with L3 Iron Skin and L5 Focus. (Wave 30 on Io isn't really that far :s)

[Telzen]

Iron Skin is good if you don't try to stand and tank shots. Rhino Stomp is blatantly overpowered, it needs a nerf badly.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I think the major problem with Rhino's Iron Skin has a hard cap, and another frame *cough*Ember*cough* has a % reduction. Any hard limit on amount of damage absorbed will be worthless on higher level defense runs, leaving you with no energy very fast as you spam the skill. Personally I would find a damage % reduction like Overheat preferable over 1560 max with L3 Iron Skin and L5 Focus. (Wave 30 on Io isn't really that far :s)

This was tried. It turned out to suck epically.

Rhino Stomp is blatantly overpowered, it needs a nerf badly.

Compare stomp to most other ults. Miasma, crush, radial javelin, etc. Overpowered my arse.

[RoboDoge]

So DE cant make Rhino, either they make him OP or useless. Use him as it is and dont complain.

[Mikki79]

The issue is with one of rhino's abilities not scaling to higher level/end game content like other frame abilities do.

Imagine if overheat and snowglobe had the same mechanics that iron skin does now. They'd work fine in lower level missions, but once you start hitting higher level / end game content, they'd become almost useless pretty quick.

It has nothing to do with Rhino being OP / UP.

I'd really like it if they gave similar abilities on other frames a similar cap mechanic for a week just to watch the flood of tears drown the forums. Snowglobe and overheat with a 1200 damage absorption cap especially. Experience is the best teacher, after all.

 

Rhino isn't the only warframe with an ability that gets useless when fighting tougher enemies. I've played both Saryn and Rhino a lot the last few days and Rhino has WAY better survivability. Iron Skin > Molt. Molt also get's useless against high level enemies.

 

Having high shields is also better than having high health. Rhino gets nearly 50% higher max shields with redirection than Saryn.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Mikki79

[Namacyst]

Iron Skin is good if you don't try to stand and tank shots. Rhino Stomp is blatantly overpowered, it needs a nerf badly.

You know that Iron Skin taunts enemies, yes? And no, RS is not overpowered.

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

This was tried. It turned out to suck epically.

Oh really? How was it so bad? >:

[Jeraggerjack]

In my opinion , they could raise the damage cap on IS to 10,000 damage and it would still be broken. My entire problem with it is that Rhino is tailored more towards the end game ( Minimum mastery rank 2 to build/use ) with its stats and how its abilities function. The earlier version of the rhino worked in tandem with the frost to keep the objective protected in infinite defense. Stomp was frequently a lifesaver and iron skin ensured that the rhino was able to get that stomp off.

Now it feels like Rhino has no clear category outside of being a heavy frame. Anything that it can do now, the frost can do better.

Rhino is a God for lower level missions as soon as it can equip a max rank iron skin. With a rhino and iron skin a player can power through low level content with no issues all the way to ceres. However, beyond that, Iron Skin starts to fail to meet the standards that other warframe abilities can meet due to their ability to scale (which is intelligent design.) Scaling is important because it allows the ability to be equally useful against all enemies from level 1 to level 200+ without being imbalanced.

Because of how it is right now, it is simply a game breaker for rhino players. Many, many warframe players have been typing posts similar to this one making points similar to this one. It seems we could type until our fingers bleed and the low information players still do not understand what we're trying to say. We can only dumb it down so much. It's like trying to explain disneyland to your dog.

I think DE was aware of this issue long before it was being raised on the forums and they're actively working to address it. It would be nice, however, that they are giving some acknowledgement that they get it and are working to fix it rather than rolling out updates to IS that are just bandaids that don't solve the problem at all.

[Jeraggerjack]

Iron Skin is good if you don't try to stand and tank shots. Rhino Stomp is blatantly overpowered, it needs a nerf badly.

Rhino stomp is overpowered?

Oh. PvP.

*facepalm*

When are y'all going to get that PvP is about measuring SKILL and not showing off the fact that you invested 250 bucks and 800+ hours of gametime so you can be "ub3r 1337" in a game that revolves around PvE?

When? When?

smh

 

Oh really? How was it so bad? >:

 

Because the programmers couldn't make % base damage reduction work while keeping invulnerability to disruption, knockdown, stagger, etc.

All incarnations of iron skin past that point have been band aids while they're trying to figure that out.... IF they are trying to figure it out.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Jeraggerjack

[NalkorRN]

Rhino stomp is overpowered?

Oh. PvP.

*facepalm*

When are y'all going to get that PvP is about measuring SKILL and not showing off the fact that you invested 250 bucks and 800+ hours of gametime so you can be "ub3r 1337" in a game that revolves around PvE?

When? When?

smh

 

 

Because the programmers couldn't make % base damage reduction work while keeping invulnerability to disruption, knockdown, stagger, etc.

All incarnations of iron skin past that point have been band aids while they're trying to figure that out.... IF they are trying to figure it out.

All those band-aid fixes were done because IS couldn't be invulnerability because of Dojo PVP. There's no way in hell I'll believe that IS was seen as unbalanced in PvE when we've now got Ember being a better tank with a better energy pool and faster base movement and the ability to actually damage things (except very high level enemies of course).

Yes IS taunts everything with a damage cap of 1,200, but in Eris, Pluto, and especially Tier 3 Void missions, that 1,200 is going to disappear in a second.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Oh really? How was it so bad? >:

It boiled down to how even 95% DR isn't enough to make a significant difference in high level play, and DR alone means that there is no way to recharge shields without breaking contact, whereas the thresholded/ablative armor system allows a rhino to pop IS and recharge shields under fire.

There's also the matter of how DR still let disruption, knockdown, and especially toxic clouds through. Honestly that was a tremendous issue too.

Edit: Basically, when IS was first nerfed, it was turned into 80% DR + a bonus from focus. Theorycrafting said it sucked, and lo and behold, it sucked. Then it was learned that the reason old IS was immune to toxic, disruption, and knockdown (three of the big draws of IS compared to any other power or frame) was because of the invincibility, rather than any innate flag on the power itself. What followed was people abandoning rhino in droves because one of the best frames turned into one of the worst.

 

All those band-aid fixes were done because IS couldn't be invulnerability because of Dojo PVP.

Eh, I dunno. Steve said that they're making dojo fights balanced separately from PvE - like, powers perform differently in duels compared to how they perform in the field.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[-Kittens-]

Which is why PVP should have never been introduced in the first place.

Completely bad decision.

[-Kittens-]

OMG everyone is complaining about Rhino's IS being bad, buuuuuut has anyone actually been in a defense mission with a good Rhino player?????

Ran two times through wave 30 on IO. Only got touched on wave 30.  

Rhino kills everything or makes everything helpless, CONSTANTLY.

Stop complaining because you want invincibility and realize the true potential of your frame.

Oh and one more thing. You should never be standing still trying to tank high lvl mobs as this is suicide(common sense in a space ninja game) ninjas move around, Sherman tanks sit still.

Now do it with level one weapons. Video proof only please.

[Namacyst]

Because the programmers couldn't make % base damage reduction work while keeping invulnerability to disruption, knockdown, stagger, etc.

All incarnations of iron skin past that point have been band aids while they're trying to figure that out.... IF they are trying to figure it out.

 

Huh? Overheat makes immune to Disruption and has % damage reduction only... so that's not the problem.

 

The problem was that the community got the change from Immoratality to % damage reduction all of a sudden. They popped IS and they got damage and died. RAGE! So they flamed that IS sucks now yaddayadda and from that point IS got worse and worse. If i had to choose i would want the damage reduction back because a flat soak that does not scale and is not stackable/recastable while active with such a low value.. sucks.

[Mak_Gohae]

The issue is with one of rhino's abilities not scaling to higher level/end game content like other frame abilities do.

Imagine if overheat and snowglobe had the same mechanics that iron skin does now. They'd work fine in lower level missions, but once you start hitting higher level / end game content, they'd become almost useless pretty quick.

It has nothing to do with Rhino being OP / UP.

I'd really like it if they gave similar abilities on other frames a similar cap mechanic for a week just to watch the flood of tears drown the forums. Snowglobe and overheat with a 1200 damage absorption cap especially. Experience is the best teacher, after all.

 

This issues falls on almost every single Warframe, every one of them has at least one ability that ends up not working well that high up.

Do you see a flood around here? I dont see it. There are some trickles but it's no flood.

 

 

 

Compare stomp to most other ults. Miasma, crush, radial javelin, etc. Overpowered my arse.

 

Miasma has half of the range as Stomp, Crush doesnt ignore armor, RJ hits a limited number of enemies.

Nu-Stomp definitely is on top of the list now.

[Aeshi]

OMG everyone is complaining about Rhino's IS being bad, buuuuuut has anyone actually been in a defense mission with a good Rhino player?????

Ran two times through wave 30 on IO. Only got touched on wave 30.  

Rhino kills everything or makes everything helpless, CONSTANTLY.

You can do that with ANY frame (and the vast majority of them can do so much better than Rhino), the game isn't that hard.

 

 

Stop complaining because you want invincibility and realize the true potential of your frame.

Oh and one more thing. You should never be standing still trying to tank high lvl mobs as this is suicide(common sense in a space ninja game) ninjas move around, Sherman tanks sit still.

So Trinity, Ember & Frost are all "Sherman Tanks" and not Ninjas then? because last time I checked all 3 of them could "tank by standing still" (despite the fact that only 1 of them is actually supposed to be a tank), yet when Rhino does it, it's suddenly "OP?"

 

 

Rhino Stomp is blatantly overpowered, it needs a nerf badly.

"Mildly annoy enemies for 12 seconds" is hardly OP, especially when most other Ults (or heck, even Rhino's old Radial Blast) would just kill said enemies outright 9 times out of 10 for either the same or less energy.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Aeshi

[Phoenix86]

I'd really like it if they gave similar abilities on other frames a similar cap mechanic for a week just to watch the flood of tears drown the forums. Snowglobe and overheat with a 1200 damage absorption cap especially. Experience is the best teacher, after all.

 

LOL the forum would implode and create a singularity

[lostinrehab]

Me messing with level 35 graneer as rhino. Note the range on rhino stomp 3:14 in.

[Inberun]

How I think Rhino IS should be

 

- Allow shield to regenerate while taking damage (that mean Rhino shield will start regenerating the moment IS activated and will never stop regenerating while IS is activated)

 

- 15%/30%/45%/60% DR (wont be affected by Focus)

 

- 100%/200%/300%/400% Shield Recharge Rate (scales with Fast Deflection)

 

-> Rhino's IS wouldnt be a brain dead iWin power, against low level enemies u will be able to outregenerate their damage but u have to use it smart in order to survive against higher level.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Crimson_King256

[Phoenix86]

Me messing with level 35 graneer as rhino. Note the range on rhino stomp 3:14 in.

 

yeah, it's so funny :)

[cheukyi6]

Just stop complaining....if you don't like to play as Rhino, go play other frames, simple as it is