Instant Gibed By Jackals

[wrxstiu]

the jackal has no animation when firing missiles so when trying to solo i have no a idea he is going to shoot missiles since he has no animation for shooting missiles they just appear in front of him missiles doing upwards of 2k damage is any one else having this problem 

[Tsukinoki]

That's not his insta-gib attack, but he does have a missile firing animation.

His worst attack is one where you'll see him rear his head up a bit and hear a light "fwump" sound.  He will have then seeded the area with sticky grenades.  The worst part?  The grenades stick to players and are nearly impossible to see...and the explosions commonly dont have any graphics so you'll just randomly die.

Its frustrating, but the only real advice is to stay further away from him.

[tatcher]

When the Jackal stops moving you run around like crazy as far away from him as you can.

[Ghobe]

This is probably being addressed. They mentioned that the jackal is getting an animation update in the last livestream.

[neKroMancer]

As far as I can tell, Jackal's missile attack rarely fall to the arena. Most of them goes up and hit the ceiling.

His sticky grenade is the real problem. Once you are in a middle of the mine field or one of them manage to stick on your character, say goodbye to life. Always moving is only advice I can give you. Or shoot him down as soon as he gets up.

[Xylia]

It is like I've always said....

 

Surely they can come up with better ways to make bosses challenging other than making everything a Bullet Sponge, or giving them Insta-death attacks.

 

There's got to be some sort of middle-ground where you find challenge, without the "BAM you die" crap.

 

Lech Kril is a step in the right direction. He's got actual tactics, and other than being the unlucky sod getting stuck in his hammer-throw, it is unlikely he's going to OHKO you. And his Hammer Throw is very telegraphed and can be dodged by any Tenno paying attention. You might still get clipped by it and it will hurt, but it isn't some unavoidable ridiculous attack that still hits you even if you slash dash away from it.

 

Or, how about Sargas Ruk, who uses Bullet Attractor on you. It hurts if you don't notice right away, but if you're paying attention and predict when he's about to use it, you've got a chance to stop shooting before you kill yourself with it.

[Ghobe]

There's got to be some sort of middle-ground where you find challenge, without the "BAM you die" crap.

Xyl, I'd like to point out that these attacks still have their place in games. The way Jackal does it is wrong, as it's not telegraphed to the point that if you're hit it's totally your fault and you deserve the death. They have a place in difficulty. Shuold it be on every boss? No, but don't write them off as a mechanic. If the animation was more obvious and possibly if there was also an attached audio cue, it would be alright, though the whole animation and velocity of the grenades themselves should probably be slowed.

[Omegarick]

lol I'm gonna test this.

[Xylia]

Xyl, I'd like to point out that these attacks still have their place in games. The way Jackal does it is wrong, as it's not telegraphed to the point that if you're hit it's totally your fault and you deserve the death. They have a place in difficulty. Shuold it be on every boss? No, but don't write them off as a mechanic. If the animation was more obvious and possibly if there was also an attached audio cue, it would be alright, though the whole animation and velocity of the grenades themselves should probably be slowed.

 

 

As long as I've been playing MMOs (which is quite some time), I think Insta-Death attacks are.... one of the very last mechanics I'd use, personally, in a boss fight.

 

Now...... there are some that are "Yeah, okay, that's understandable" ....if you play WoW, you might be aware of a recently added boss named Elegon. You fight him on a platform above a bottomless pit, and the game warns you when the platform is about to disappear. If you are standing on that when it does.....you die and cannot be rezzed (you have to run back to the portal as a ghost, which you can't do mid-battle).

 

That's understandable. The game gives you 10+ seconds to get off that platform.

 

But something like Jackal.... eh, yeah. He has sticky grenades? I've never seen them. Is it even possible to avoid them? I've tried using Slash Dash to get away from that stupid attack.......still died. If Slash Dash won't get you out of harm's way fast enough, I don't know what will. I was using the "FHWOOMP!" sound as a telegraph. As far as seeing him "rear his head back"......you have to already be standing far away from him to see that unless you're aiming up at his head (why would you, when you have to shoot his LEGS to make him fall?).

[Ghobe]

Well it all depends on the attack. Are his grenades appropriate? Probably not, that missile barrage of his? Maybe, if they ever fix it so that it actually lands without crashing into beams/ceiling/pillar. And that's only because it's one hell of a telegraph.

 

(why would you, when you have to shoot his LEGS to make him fall?).

Well to be fair his front legs go above his head ;p

[Xylia]

Well it all depends on the attack. Are his grenades appropriate? Probably not, that missile barrage of his? Maybe, if they ever fix it so that it actually lands without crashing into beams/ceiling/pillar. And that's only because it's one hell of a telegraph.

 

 

 

Well to be fair his front legs go above his head ;p

 

I think the missiles are SUPPOSED to hit the ceiling.

 

The room is an enclosed Boss Arena, and there's constantly broken containers raining down ammo and blue orbs on the battlefield.

 

I've always thought that his rockets hit the ceiling because he's a prototype that isn't finished (and that's why the rockets don't work right). Without the ammo drops, a lot of players would run out of ammo on the first "real" boss of the game that most people fight (other than maybe that dude on Saturn).

 

Hyena has REAL functional rockets.....and oh boy do they hurt if you get hit with them. They home in on you, and the best way to avoid getting hit is to duck behind a wall, or in behind a staircase or something so that they hit the terrain while trying to follow you.

 

Now THAT is a "Deadly Attack Done Right".

 

Hyena's rockets. They work very well. Same sound that telegraphs them, and you have actual strategy/terrain use to avoid the attack. Not avoiding it hurts, and hurts BAD.

[NalkorRN]

As long as I've been playing MMOs (which is quite some time), I think Insta-Death attacks are.... one of the very last mechanics I'd use, personally, in a boss fight.

 

Now...... there are some that are "Yeah, okay, that's understandable" ....if you play WoW, you might be aware of a recently added boss named Elegon. You fight him on a platform above a bottomless pit, and the game warns you when the platform is about to disappear. If you are standing on that when it does.....you die and cannot be rezzed (you have to run back to the portal as a ghost, which you can't do mid-battle).

 

That's understandable. The game gives you 10+ seconds to get off that platform.

 

But something like Jackal.... eh, yeah. He has sticky grenades? I've never seen them. Is it even possible to avoid them? I've tried using Slash Dash to get away from that stupid attack.......still died. If Slash Dash won't get you out of harm's way fast enough, I don't know what will. I was using the "FHWOOMP!" sound as a telegraph. As far as seeing him "rear his head back"......you have to already be standing far away from him to see that unless you're aiming up at his head (why would you, when you have to shoot his LEGS to make him fall?).

Instant death attacks can be perfect for a challenge... provided the game mechanics allow you to dodge or otherwise avoid it with good timing. World of Warcraft isn't quite suited for that.

Super Ornstein in Dark Souls? Perfect example done right. He quickly leaps back just a bit and has his spear lowered and pulls it back, then if it connects, he impales you, hoists you up and starts damaging you with lightning. It's hard to describe the attack properly since he does it so quickly and his size makes spotting every last bit a tad difficult when you're between his legs and kneecapping him like TARKUS would.

[NalkorRN]

I think the missiles are SUPPOSED to hit the ceiling.

 

The room is an enclosed Boss Arena, and there's constantly broken containers raining down ammo and blue orbs on the battlefield.

 

I've always thought that his rockets hit the ceiling because he's a prototype that isn't finished (and that's why the rockets don't work right). Without the ammo drops, a lot of players would run out of ammo on the first "real" boss of the game that most people fight (other than maybe that dude on Saturn).

 

Hyena has REAL functional rockets.....and oh boy do they hurt if you get hit with them. They home in on you, and the best way to avoid getting hit is to duck behind a wall, or in behind a staircase or something so that they hit the terrain while trying to follow you.

 

Now THAT is a "Deadly Attack Done Right".

 

Hyena's rockets. They work very well. Same sound that telegraphs them, and you have actual strategy/terrain use to avoid the attack. Not avoiding it hurts, and hurts BAD.

The Jackal's rockets can hit, and they hurt hard. The containers are actually on a beltway of sorts. Just look up during the fight and you'll see them fall off and hit the floor, breaking.

The Hyena's rocket, much like the Jackal's, can be avoided either by a last minute slash dash/rhino charge or moving behind a crate or... just standing perfectly still as Frost inside a Snowglobe. The rocket hits and like almost every ranged attack (Railgun MOA ignores this), will stop flat against the Snowglobe.

[Tsukinoki]

But something like Jackal.... eh, yeah. He has sticky grenades? I've never seen them. Is it even possible to avoid them? I've tried using Slash Dash to get away from that stupid attack.......still died. If Slash Dash won't get you out of harm's way fast enough, I don't know what will. I was using the "FHWOOMP!" sound as a telegraph. As far as seeing him "rear his head back"......you have to already be standing far away from him to see that unless you're aiming up at his head (why would you, when you have to shoot his LEGS to make him fall?).

They are small grey cubes with one end a light blue light.  Increadibly hard to see but they are there and are visible.

Second, they can attach to players.  If you are too close and hear the "fhwump" sound, youre dead as you probably have a grenade stuck to your body.  No matter how fast you run it'll kill you.

Hell, it can kill an ember with maxed focus using overheat for 91% damage reduction with maxed out vitality and redirection.  So its safe to say that nothing can survive a direct hit from ONE of them.

And if you stay too close to Jackal chances are you are being hit by multiple explosions...

And its best to aim at his shoulders so you can see him pull back his head a bit.  Also, a slightly better tell to the attack is one of his eyes lights up a bright blue light.

If you see that and are close to him...run.

[Ghobe]

I think the missiles are SUPPOSED to hit the ceiling.

 

The room is an enclosed Boss Arena, and there's constantly broken containers raining down ammo and blue orbs on the battlefield.

If that were true, then they wouldn't drop prior to him using it. They would also drop either when it breaks the railway(which is already broken) or each time he uses it. These things aren't true(which maybe this is part of the animation change?).

 

Also as to the example with Hyena, it also follows what's true in most games representing war. Jackal vs Hyena, dumb shot vs smart shot. The dumb shot fires off higher damage, higher amounts of projectiles, as compared to the smart shot's lower damage, lower projectile count, but seeking shots. So I have no problem with the Hyena's attack not being insta-kill(though it kinda is against lesser geared frames), while jackal's is indeed insta kill. Though if they do go through with this change, there should probably be an easier way to tell where they're going to hit on the ground, mostly because I THINK he can shoot the grenades while the missiles are flying, so it might very well be too hard to stare at the sky and avoid those at the same time.

[fatpig84]

With a Despair, i drop a level 48 Jackal to his knees in exactly 2 seconds.

Before he can even release a SINGLE stomp, I even dropped him when he is in mid stomp where his leg is in the air.

Jackal can't even stand up, yet alone launch missiles.

 

Jackal imo only really punishes people with lower end gear but the regular one is like level 19 but I can see that non-AP non AI weapons have issues breaking him down into recovery state.

Edited July 10, 2013 by fatpig84

[Ghobe]

Doesn't matter, with a level 20 despair, i drop a level 48 Jackal to his knees in exactly 2 seconds.

Before he can even release a SINGLE stomp.

 

Yet alone launch missiles.

Nightmare Mode Pluto Assassination Alert. Level 130 jackal coming your way >=O

[tatcher]

Hmm.. I gotta disagree with a lot of you. I ALWAYS hear and see when the Jackal is using his sticky grenades, It's not hard at all, I almost NEVER get hit by them. I have survived his grenades stuck to me and around me on the floor several times, it did all my shield and almost all my health so you can survive that, and I had no shield mods or health mods on so whatever guy posted that must've had a bunch on him, not ONE. the missiles he launches in the air has never gone down again after me before, and to clear things up so you don't start saying I haven't played enough, I have spent 300 hours on the game. And the grenades are visible, not very but they are, they have a faint blue light.