Birdframe_Prime Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) I do this under duress. And I mean, I really didn’t want to, but I feel like I should to get ahead of the curve and present as best a light on this as I possibly can. People will have seen Limbo’s rework, and there’s already a number of people suggesting a rework to Zephyr based on the single point: Limbo’s new ‘dodge’ into the Rift shows that DE can now trigger ability effects from movement. What was a dodge-roll becomes a Rift walk. So, to many, what is a Bullet Jump can become a Tailwind. The reason they see it the same way is because currently Tailwind just… doesn’t do anything to enemies. It deals damage that simply doesn’t affect enemies past level 5 and it doesn’t allow Zephyr to escape from tight quarters. Moreover, it locks her in an animation that you can only cancel out of with Shift (bet there’s a lot of you who didn’t know that…), and that’s just not helpful for a movement cast. On the other hand, my main belief on this is that switching out one of her basic movements for Tailwind would, ultimately, reduce the number of mobility options she has now. Bullet Jump into a Tailwind and jump out of it is kind of ingrained into my muscle memory now. Also I recently made a thread to rework her abilities into actual abilities, keep the descriptions, keep the overall theme, but make her abilities work as they’re supposed to on the label. If that’s more your style, please go take a look, but for now… let’s get into this. A rework where Tailwind becomes part of her movement set… Hoo boy… You know what? I think I’ll throw in a Toolkit cast just for giggles. (Don't shoot me, there's ideas here...) Blame/Credit to @Azamagon for putting this in my head. Passive: Aerodynamic. Spoiler Zephyr’s light weight construction and streamlined design allow her unparalelled movement in the air. Able to steer and manuever, benefiting from a longer Aim Glide duration and a super-charged Bullet Jump that sends her hurtling into the air. What it does: Exactly the same normal passive with a few tweaks. First, since Tailwind is now keyed to the Bullet Jump commands, it is free to be a movement and not an animation cast, allowing Zephyr to do all the things she can do with a Bullet Jump, such as wall latch, wall run, and trigger the movement anywhere at any time. Balance may be needed now that it doesn’t cost energy, such as limiting it to only once or twice before landing… but I feel the balance will be in the next part: Second, since it is now movement, it cannot deal damage to enemies in the same way, it deals the same damage as Bullet Jump on use, and can scale with the Bullet Jump affecting mods, and to further ensure it doesn’t affect enemies it will pass through enemies without damage or procs. It'll be fast, part of the movement system so easy for new players to get into and understand, free movement. While on the other hand the ability loses a lot of mod-ability, and loses the chance to use this as an offensive cast, or as a trigger to buff other casts (something from my other thread), also may mess up the muscle memory of anyone that’s used to the current Zephyr, like me. 1: Headlong (Working title). Spoiler Zephyr is a creature of the air, take off and prepare to strike those below. When on the ground Zephyr launches vertically, staggering nearby enemies and dealing minor damage while gaining height to prepare for her next attack. When in the air Zephyr instantly hurtles towards the ground, creating an explosion that knocks down all around her. The damage the explosion deals scales with height and with the melee mods for her weapons, the range is affected by mods, but also scales with height if Zephyr takes off from the ground first, and precision aiming can be used by holding the ability button to switch her view towards the ground and mark her point of impact. In addition, while both the take off and the following dive both cost energy, when taking off from the ground there is a reduction in energy cost for the dive as long as Zephyr’s feet do not touch the ground first. What it does: Inexpensive radial CC. The damage scales enough with height and melee mods that it will actually be useful up to a certain point, however the old tactic of using it as a quick CC cast is also far more useful. Using an improved, animation-based knockdown (because the Status of knock down is not consistent enough for true CC) will guarantee it as a CC cast. The small range when used without the launch (as in, just with a Tailwind jump) means that it stays as a situational and low damage 1 cast, but, much like other frames, modding correctly and using the Launch to gain buffs from height, will turn it into a fairly decent damage dealer that should work on enemies up to level 30-40, at least on the un-armoured ones. The reasoning is that the ‘vertical launch’ that used to be part of Tailwind is something players don’t use much, if there was a real, useful mechanic to it being there, such as directly buffing the rest of the cast, and reducing the cost of the in-air cast (unless you land first) will be incentive for players to use her movement to get her into a crowd, launch and stagger enemies, and then dive to both knock them all down and to deal damage. It’s also one of those useful either/or mechanics where you can go for the large range and larger damage of height, but it’s still useful as a shorter range knock down on enemies that are right in front of you, so a hop-slam will do far more work in a group setting than it does currently. 2. Guiding Winds (working title). The new ability. Abilities. Sort of. Spoiler Zephyr casts small cyclones of air onto targets, marking them from afar to enable multiple different effects on her victims. Gale Winds slows enemies, forcing them to move against buffeting air. Fracturing Winds guides shots from weapons, improving accuracy and providing bonus Critical Damage. Focal Winds concentrates the air around enemies, speeding them up, but also priming them for bonus damage from Headlong, or Tornado. Finally, Eroding Winds exposes enemies to elemental damage, providing bonus Status chance and longer status duration. What it does: Well, exactly what I said. This is a longer range cast that debuffs enemies in different ways, similar to the format of Titania’s 1, or Limbo’s new 1, where it picks up multiple enemies as long as they’re close enough together, pick your favourite form and do what you will. I’ve described this as a toolkit ability earlier, but… no, really, pick which one you like best and I may edit this with the favourite type as the main ability, with the others as secondary ideas. The simple idea is to bring Team Support into her kit but blend in that CC that's part of the rest of her kit. Zephyr has great movement, an instant Soft CC cast, great personal defense and a Heavy CC cast (more on Tornado later, those of you who’ve read my Tornado rework on my separate thread will know it) she has also been given a bit of offensive damage with the rework ability Headlong, so that’s covered. Now I’m introducing some team support by making an enemy debuff ability. So you can choose, either slow enemies down, speed them up to prime them for bonus damage from your other abilities, buff your Crit Damage or buff your Status Chance and Duration. All four are pretty good effects, and all of them can be explained in the same way as Turbulence is explained (read: It’s Tenno magic, I don’t gotta explain anything.) You could even have all four if you’re up for a Toolkit cast. Everyone loves a good enemy-slow... then again, everyone loves Crit or Status boosting... and again people love combo explosions. The combo one seems the weakest, not one that would be the 'main' ability if only one effect were chosen, but if all four were kept as a toolkit, then it would balance out nicely... also, who doesn't like using an ability to speed up mobs as they sprint to their doom? Dropping Tornado, then speed boosting enemies that are effectively M-Primed for hitting Tornado funnels would be fun ^^ If comments would give me a vote of 1-5 as to what they'd prefer, 1 is Slow, 2 Crit Boost, 3 Status Boost, 4 Ability Combo Boost and 5 is Toolkit. I'll edit the post here to what people prefer. 3. Turbulence. Spoiler What can I say? It’s Turbulence. One of the best defense abilities in the game. Fix the few things it doesn’t deflect, like flamethrowers, Swarmer Detron shots and Hellion Rockets, and we’re done. 4. Tornado. Spoiler You’re not in Terminus anymore, Tenno. Unleash a storm of four swirling whirlwinds that seek out and capture any foe in range, providing the perfect defense from charging enemies. The elemental type of each funnel can be changed at any time by shooting the funnels with elemental modded weapons, and you may choose to cancel the ability at any time or let its chaos play out. What it does: Tornado becomes a defense CC cast. It’s very simple, you cast it, and from the point of cast there is a mod-affected radius. The Tornado funnels can’t roam further away from the point of cast than that, meaning they will always be around ready to CC enemies but only the mechanics are changed. The ability still looks and basically acts as it did before, however funnels are faster, track enemies via the navigation mesh (so enemies can’t run around them) and still capture them in a radius around the funnel (meaning that enemies outside the ability can be accidentally picked up if the funnel happens to be at the edge). The pick-up duration becomes a consistent time, like 10 seconds, holding enemies in the middle of the funnel for consistent placing and for aiming at them and enemies are then launched vertically so that they don’t get scattered, enemies that land back in the radius of the cast can be picked up again, but not until they land, so that enemies can’t be pinned to the roof. Allow Zephyr to change the elemental type of the funnels, but only Zephyr (my tornado... get your own), and then allow all players to shoot through them at enemies on the other side. Finally, an off switch. Even as improved as Tornado will now become, no team will like it out of place or out of correct application, so an active cancel. Why not a toggle? Zephyr doesn’t have the energy pool to support a drain ability. Even with as much efficiency and duration as possible, her energy would drain remarkably fast, especially for newer users that might not have a Primed Flow. With this the ability is reliable in what it does and where it goes. No more wandering off, no more low damage from inconsistent capture, no more enemies flattened against a ceiling, no more blocking our bullets, no more scattering loot and survivors to every corner, no more of any of the annoying points of the cast… I mean, heck, we could use it on any mission now, a neutral range cast will make it useful in defending an Interception point, or watching your back in a Survival, you can cast it on a Defense or Mobile Defense point and it will stay there to protect it while Zephyr runs around and does her thing. Even just a Capture while you’re capturing the target, because you can turn it off again when you don’t need it. I wasn’t kidding about 'no more low damage' either, with this consistent pick-up-and-hold time, each funnel would deal a reliable amount of damage, on the lower end, but equal to any of the other single-cast 4th abilities out there, like Avalanche, Crush and Smite. That may cap out quite quickly, but the multiple ticks of Status chance won’t, Status is where the ability will truly shine, able to strip off armour or health and more. It’s not quite the massive radial that Miasma can do, or the instant Finisher that Bladestorm does, it’s not even the same as the Finisher Damage that Tentacle Swarm does, but it’s something that puts her back on par with frames like Frost and Rhino, which isn’t a bad place to be. It strikes that mid-point between Vauban’s Vortex and Hydroid’s Tentacle Swarm, enemies in range of the ability are captured and held for the entire duration, you can still shoot them, you can still cast abilities on them (you can still do the latter with Tornado now, but nothing that relies on line-of-sight) and while Vortex can be cast multiple times anywhere, even into itself again to get stronger, and while Tentacle Swarm is instantly re-deployable to another location, Tornado can now be shut off and recast, which is slower, but also far less irritating to a team. So, what do you think, guys and gals and nonbinary pals? Would this work for you? What part of the Guiding Winds ability would you keep, or would you rather have it as a Toolkit ability? tl;dr Make Zephyr’s Bullet Jump go as far and as fast as a Tailwind, make Divebomb into a partially new ability on 1 that incorporates the launch-and-dive functions so that they interact and work together, add in a new 2 that debuffs enemies to help your team and yourself, keep Turbulence, and then fix Tornado so it’s an actual defense CC cast instead of utter RNG based chaos that can wander off. Thanks for reading! Edited June 8, 2017 by Thaylien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomyGordo Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 tailwind has a forced knockdown on any enemies hit and the range of enemies hit by it is affected by power range mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalaef Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Tailwind on bullet-jump? I love that idea. And the whole rework suggestion, good job there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 43 minutes ago, --Laughing-Soul-- said: tailwind has a forced knockdown on any enemies hit and the range of enemies hit by it is affected by power range mods That's a nice thought there, it's actually on my other thread 'Zephyr Should Be Good' which is floating around here. Also the problem with both Tailwind and Dive Bomb is that any knock down they actually do is based on basically proc'ing the Status of knock down, which is easily interrupted by any Animations that have 'weight', such as ground slams, interacting with consoles, 'alert' animations and so on. If we don't give Dive Bomb an animation based knock down, then it won't work on everything every time, only some of the things some of the time. But what I was getting at in this thread is that, if it were to be a movement ability, it couldn't actually do damage, that would be a little over-powered. Thanks for the feedback though ^^ 18 minutes ago, Lalaef said: Tailwind on bullet-jump? I love that idea. And the whole rework suggestion, good job there Many thanks, it was something that cropped up in my other thread, and I was... intrigued enough to suggest a rework there too, under protest. Then it got away from me and this thread happened ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiancaRoughfin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Im a Zephyr player, tho the idea of incorporating Tailwind into her Bullet jump is a neat, i wouldnt support it as her Tailwind benefits strongly from Duration mods and such passive wouldnt. Also, having Bullet Jump trigger Tailwind would cause Zephyr to overshoot the intended areas to land on too easily as dodging is impossible wile executing it and i often use the backroll to cancel the Bullet Jump or nullify the momentum so i dont overshoot. The only thing i think she needs implemented to her Passive is allow for her Air Glide to last indefinitely or for a very long time. The only change to her skills that i think she needs so far is have Dive Bomb merged with Tailwind so aiming down and casting Tailwind would trigger dive bomb instead then have some other new skill replace her (2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RenovaKunumaru Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said: Im a Zephyr player, tho the idea of incorporating Tailwind into her Bullet jump is a neat, i wouldnt support it as her Tailwind benefits strongly from Duration mods and such passive wouldnt. Also, having Bullet Jump trigger Tailwind would cause Zephyr to overshoot the intended areas to land on too easily as dodging is impossible wile executing it and i often use the backroll to cancel the Bullet Jump or nullify the momentum so i dont overshoot. The only thing i think she needs implemented to her Passive is allow for her Air Glide to last indefinitely or for a very long time. The only change to her skills that i think she needs so far is have Dive Bomb merged with Tailwind so aiming down and casting Tailwind would trigger dive bomb instead then have some other new skill replace her (2). I meant to say this but I apparently never pressed submit on the other thread. Also not being able to tailwind down from floating in the air is a bit disheartening. I understand that the skill should be cancelled into other skills but I just don't understand how it works with the way bullet jumping works. I still personally feel as if aimgliding with Tailwind should still trigger Dive-bomb. It combines the moves but leaves them both the same without the strange angle trigger people suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 23 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said: Im a Zephyr player, tho the idea of incorporating Tailwind into her Bullet jump is a neat, i wouldnt support it as her Tailwind benefits strongly from Duration mods and such passive wouldnt. Also, having Bullet Jump trigger Tailwind would cause Zephyr to overshoot the intended areas to land on too easily as dodging is impossible wile executing it and i often use the backroll to cancel the Bullet Jump or nullify the momentum so i dont overshoot. You, friend, seem like the kind of person that would like to view my other thread, the 'Zephyr should be good' thread, I think you'll like that one better ^^ Also, correct! This is yet another reason why I don't want this to happen. This thread was purely to give the 'give Zephyr the Limbo treatment' crowd something to come to and debate, so we could slowly show them how silly it would be to remove Zephyr's primary movement cast without giving it a chance to show that it's a full ability. 21 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: Also not being able to tailwind down from floating in the air is a bit disheartening. I understand that the skill should be cancelled into other skills but I just don't understand how it works with the way bullet jumping works. Renova, you're also a treasure, but you know that you can bullet jump anywhere, right? You don't just do it from the ground. Actually, I mentioned up there that if this were the case, the new ability might actually be uncapped to allow multiple movements in the air, but that might be considered too strong and a limit might need to be imposed, greater than just one, lower than ten... Again though, I made this thread purely to experiment with the 'Limbo treatment', because I wanted to see how people would take it, please don't think I've given up on my Fix thread ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzaruth Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 6:16 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: I meant to say this but I apparently never pressed submit on the other thread. Also not being able to tailwind down from floating in the air is a bit disheartening. I understand that the skill should be cancelled into other skills but I just don't understand how it works with the way bullet jumping works. I still personally feel as if aimgliding with Tailwind should still trigger Dive-bomb. It combines the moves but leaves them both the same without the strange angle trigger people suggest. I wouldn't suggest divebomb being combined to tailwind like that. As using Aimglide and then tailwind is the easiest way to get precise aiming with Zephyr. Also on topic, I don't like the idea of bullet jumping and tailwind being the same for Zephyr, especially if it is limited to only two in the air. This would absolutely murder her mobility, which isn't something that would help her too much. And the distance difference between Bullet Jumps and Tailwind is pretty significant, especially on a low or high duration Zephyr build. Also this suggestion is going very far away from what makes Zephyr, Zephyr. With this current suggestion, she just loses her niche as a frame based off of aerial mobility, and basically just becomes a generic and uninspired frame with three CC abilities. I would instead focus on her her mobility aspect than her CC as Tornado is more than enough. We have plenty of CC frames as it is, but extremely few Mobility frames, which only exist in Volt, Zephyr, Nezha, and arguably Titania. The core of Zephyr shouldn't change this drastically away from her current state, as this could be a new frame entirely instead. Also I wouldn't go look at Limbo for ideas to change Zephyr, as Limbo's rework still makes him a clunky, trolly mess that makes Limbo players and his allies fight against each other, and now more than ever. There is going to be a constant battle of Limbo trying to be cool and spending forever trying to set up something to overkill an enemy, while their teamates just want to move on and try to overload his time stop. Instead, I would take inspiration from the mechanically sound Warframes, like Ash, Ivara, Saryn, Nova, Loki, Nidus, and Equinox. All of them have amazing self synergies and a good solid toolkit with little to no overlap. As well as possibly a peregrine falcon as that what she seems to be based off from the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RenovaKunumaru Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Zephyr-Prime said: I wouldn't suggest divebomb being combined to tailwind like that. As using Aimglide and then tailwind is the easiest way to get precise aiming with Zephyr. Also on topic, I don't like the idea of bullet jumping and tailwind being the same for Zephyr, especially if it is limited to only two in the air. This would absolutely murder her mobility, which isn't something that would help her too much. And the distance difference between Bullet Jumps and Tailwind is pretty significant, especially on a low or high duration Zephyr build. Also this suggestion is going very far away from what makes Zephyr, Zephyr. With this current suggestion, she just loses her niche as a frame based off of aerial mobility, and basically just becomes a generic and uninspired frame with three CC abilities. I would instead focus on her her mobility aspect than her CC as Tornado is more than enough. We have plenty of CC frames as it is, but extremely few Mobility frames, which only exist in Volt, Zephyr, Nezha, and arguably Titania. The core of Zephyr shouldn't change this drastically away from her current state, as this could be a new frame entirely instead. Also I wouldn't go look at Limbo for ideas to change Zephyr, as Limbo's rework still makes him a clunky, trolly mess that makes Limbo players and his allies fight against each other, and now more than ever. There is going to be a constant battle of Limbo trying to be cool and spending forever trying to set up something to overkill an enemy, while their teamates just want to move on and try to overload his time stop. Instead, I would take inspiration from the mechanically sound Warframes, like Ash, Ivara, Saryn, Nova, Loki, Nidus, and Equinox. All of them have amazing self synergies and a good solid toolkit with little to no overlap. As well as possibly a peregrine falcon as that what she seems to be based off from the most. Let me clarify then. I'm still opposed to altering Zephyrs base moveset but if that had to like Limbo, I think this particular way would be feasible. I do not see how casting Tailwind while aimgliding would impede on aiming since casting Tailwind while aimgliding current forces Zephyr to tailwind in bullet time with reduced speed and distance which defeats the purpose in my opinion. However I respect your opinion. @Thaylien What I was referring to is what you explain as uncapped. If I bullet jump off the ground, I can no longer use it in the air unless uncapped. Still seems like it would be rather awkward considering how bullet jump functions now and how far tailwind leads. Even being cancelable I think that would be a lot to manage around. I'm trying to imagine myself using a system like that in my current play. Edited February 22, 2017 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 13 hours ago, Zephyr-Prime said: Also on topic, I don't like the idea of bullet jumping and tailwind being the same for Zephyr I'll be frank, I don't either. This is purely one of those threads that concept it in order to disprove the concept (I've thought of doing those before, but not been offered such a golden opportunity as this). Zephyr's abilities are all separate for a reason, but with this whole concept of changing base movement and parkour abilities into different 'casts' like the new Limbo rework... people are going to be suggesting something like this happens to their particular 'favourite bad frame'. I mean... I even heard somebody in game talking about making Hydroid's dodge-roll do what his Tidal Surge does. It's silly, and I want to make sure people see how silly it is. It works for Limbo because of Limbo's other abilities, it probably wouldn't for Zephyr because it takes away one of her movement option and forces it onto the controls for another. 6 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: I'm trying to imagine myself using a system like that in my current play. Same, I tried to make it as intuitive as I could, but it really is a little too... well, too forced. Tailwind being duration modded makes it very interactive with your builds, I wouldn't want to waste that, and it really would make things difficult for precision. Also, I see what you're getting at, we're looking at opposite terms; you were thinking that, because Bullet Jump can only be done once, that the new version would have to be possible to do lots of times to make sense. not be 'capped' to the one cast. I was coming at it from the other direction, saying that because Tailwind could be done as many times as you had energy before, the change to making it a pure movement cast might have to be more limited due to it now being free, maybe making it 'capped' at five or so successive casts. When in fact what I was really getting at was: I would rather have it be limitless casts and lack the ability to affect enemies, than have it cost energy on a movement phase that we spam constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzaruth Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 16 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: Let me clarify then. I'm still opposed to altering Zephyrs base moveset but if that had to like Limbo, I think this particular way would be feasible. I do not see how casting Tailwind while aimgliding would impede on aiming since casting Tailwind while aimgliding current forces Zephyr to tailwind in bullet time with reduced speed and distance which defeats the purpose in my opinion. However I respect your opinion. @Thaylien What I was referring to is what you explain as uncapped. If I bullet jump off the ground, I can no longer use it in the air unless uncapped. Still seems like it would be rather awkward considering how bullet jump functions now and how far tailwind leads. Even being cancelable I think that would be a lot to manage around. I'm trying to imagine myself using a system like that in my current play. I meant if Divebomb was combined when using aimglide and then using tailwind. There are a lot of times I want to get through a small area like a door with tailwind, and aimgliding just before using tailwind makes it a lot easier to aim. There are a lot of small areas in the game that you can get stuck on if you aim incorrectly so holding aimglide while using tailwind makes it a lot more manageable. Once you are used to it, it is possible to do a void exterminate without even touching the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcceptYourDeath Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 On 20.2.2017 at 9:12 PM, Thaylien said: Make Zephyr’s Bullet Jump go as far and as fast as a Tailwind, lol what? So my only way of movement is walking or crashing into walls? How would that work? That sounds like playing Jenga with boxing gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RenovaKunumaru Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Zephyr-Prime said: I meant if Divebomb was combined when using aimglide and then using tailwind. There are a lot of times I want to get through a small area like a door with tailwind, and aimgliding just before using tailwind makes it a lot easier to aim. There are a lot of small areas in the game that you can get stuck on if you aim incorrectly so holding aimglide while using tailwind makes it a lot more manageable. Once you are used to it, it is possible to do a void exterminate without even touching the ground. I respect it. I too use tailwind in that regard however, I was willing to adjust for the sake of this combination. Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I think Zephyr needs skill changes at all. My only concern is whether DE will feel the same when they play her. That's why I keep trying to think of ideas that keep her skills while compromising with community expectations of a rework. Without touching the ground is quite the exaggeration though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, AcceptYourDeath said: lol what? So my only way of movement is walking or crashing into walls? How would that work? That sounds like playing Jenga with boxing gloves. EXACTLY!!! Read the other comments, my friend, this entire thing is set up to show how 'give Zephyr the Limbo treatment' wouldn't work. We had the Toolkit thing from Ivara pop up as suggestions for every other frame (actually happened for Vauban, though... not a good trend) and then I saw at least three cases of the Nidus Treatment for Zephyr alone, and even more for the other caster frames... It was crazy. So I wanted to get a full-concepted, possibly working Rework thread going that could be a false trail for all those people, and so that we could disprove them. It wouldn't really work, it would be silly, but everyone that approves of the idea will come here and not bother making more threads of their own. Stop by my other thread for a real rework idea, the 'Zephyr Should Be Good' one, you may like that more ^^ Edited February 23, 2017 by Thaylien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzaruth Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 17 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: I respect it. I too use tailwind in that regard however, I was willing to adjust for the sake of this combination. Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I think Zephyr needs skill changes at all. My only concern is whether DE will feel the same when they play her. That's why I keep trying to think of ideas that keep her skills while compromising with community expectations of a rework. Without touching the ground is quite the exaggeration though. I just don't feel it would work well, also divebomb is pretty situational as that recovery time is painful. It's more of a CC ability than a mobility power, it can be used to hard stop, but in most cases, it is more efficient to tailwind down. And honestly, I don't want Zephyr to be reworked, maybe a few touches and a bit of updating, but nothing too big. Like a ground version of divebomb, energy efficiency for chaining Tailwind, more reliable tornado, ect. And it is possible, I have done it. I tried doing it for that challenge posted a while ago, but my video capture kept killing my frames to death. But I felt terrible for not being able to do it, so I continued and changed my build over and over and tried constantly to do it. I think it took about 73 attempts or so, but I did manage to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)GR13V4NC3 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) With all the flying that seems to be added into the game, I think it'd be cool to update (add to the overall current passive) zephy's passive to something like... Birds of a Feather With Zephyr equipped, herself and all flight frames [Chroma, Titania, etc] in squad will gain some sort of % increase to something. Edited February 24, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkenai7 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said: With Zephyr equipped, herself and all flight frames [Chroma, Titania, etc] in squad will gain some sort of % increase to something. Chroma...? Also, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)GR13V4NC3 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Just now, Arkenai7 said: Chroma...? Also, why? Mainly, cause he's a dragon with wings and his ultimate flies and I created an augment to his 4th that made him fly (sort of). Other than that, just as a bonus to Zephs cause she's the queen of the flight frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RenovaKunumaru Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The Zephyr Rework the masses want Passive: Zephyr is no longer lightweight and falls just like every other frame. 1. Flight Zephyr flies into the air, an exact copy of titania except she can use all of her weapons 2. Turbulence remains the same except now it costs less energy 3. Wind. Zephyr throws wind. Gust, spears, shuriken, feathers. Enemies take slash procs and get indefinitely knocked down. 4. Trap: Zephyr summons tornadoes that hold enemies for the duration of the skill and all damage feed into the tornadoes is accumulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 14 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: The Zephyr Rework the masses want Yeah well... the masses can jump off a bridge if they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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