Improving the Relic System

[drakegt]

I made this post in another that got lost in a sea of disagreement, so I thought I'd make its own thread for discussion.

I think the new relic system is a great improvement on the old system. However, there are still people upset that it really isn't any less grindy than before. While I can agree with that to an extent, the grinding it frontloaded on relics rather than the actual mission.

I propose a few modifications to the system to improve the grind and maybe even create more options for players to spend their resources. 

1. Increase void trace drop based on relic level. This is to increase the reward for higher level missions. Axi relics take a lot of effort to get, and often they don't end up getting the player anything they need because of how the RNG works. Increasing the void trace drops on higher level missions reward the player just for going out of their way to do the mission, and now when they get another axi relic they can make it radiant to improve their chances. As for drop rates, I propose:
   • Lith: 6-30
   • Meso: 12-36
   • Neo: 18-42
   • Axi: 24-48
2. Let relics be decomposed into void traces. A lot of times I end up running missions just for void traces. This honestly seems like a waste of time to me and I end up with a lot of backlogged relics that I couldn't do in a year. Then other relics give me more relics, so the cycle snowballs. Decomposing relics would not give maximum void trace, in fact it would give the opposite. Decomposing a Lith will net 6 traces, a Meso will net 12, etc. This rewards players for actually playing the mission, but for someone with a backlog, like me, can still benefit. 
3. Make Relics have to be hunted. Part of the initial flavor of the relics was they were something to be hunted and sought after. Right now, however, they are just another resource to be farmed, hardly the sought after prize DE was hoping for. I have a few ideas on how to do this, but none of them are super fleshed out. The end goal would be for the amount of time farming a specific relic would be cut down, although there might be overhead in just finding the relic you are looking for initially. 
4. Let Players pay for more rewards on missions. At the end of the mission, players can spend 100/200/300 void traces to take an additional reward. This rewards players for playing a lot of fissure missions and lowers the time it will take someone to just ducut farm. To clarify, my proposal its 100 traces for a second reward, 200 for a third, and 300 for a fourth, totalling at 600 void traces to get all of the rewards. This means that a player will have to be at least rank 10 to take advantage of the system entirely.
5. Make the void great again. Add void traces to void containers as a drop, or add a new enemy to the void that drops traces (like an oxium osprey). This encourages players to farm the void again since their resources are lackluster. Plus this makes sense. 

Thoughts? How would you improve the current system?

[lukinu_u]

1) Yes, it's normal to have better reward on harder missions.

2) No because people will prefer to decompose instead playing the relics where they already have all prime part and it will be more difficult for new players to have their first primes.

3) I dont really understand, can you explain ?

4) This is an amazing idea. Maybe ajust the price depending on the rarity of the additional reward :
-100 per additional common reward.
-200  per additional uncommon reward.
-300 per additional rare reward.

5) Not sure if it's a good idea because the relic system were introduced to incite players to stop playing only on the void.

[drakegt]

24 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

2) No because people will prefer to decompose instead playing the relics where they already have all prime part and it will be more difficult for new players to have their first primes.

That's why it gives the minimum, to encourage players to play those missions for the chance at more traces. I really just want something to do with my 50+ Lith relics that I can't do anything with. Alternatively, a combining system could be interesting (combine 4 Lith to get a Meso), but this will have the same impact. 

From a different perspective, does a rank 5 really want to run a mission with a rank 18 who kills everything before they get a chance? Either of these systems will naturally have higher ranked players playing with other higher ranked players, and I don't really see a problem with that since its totally dynamic and fluid. 

31 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

3) I dont really understand, can you explain ?

Certainly. I was thinking something like the acolyte system where players server wide hide to find out information about the location of a relic. Once that relic was found, it would create an alert for that specific relic, and that was the reward for the alert. The alert would not go away so player's could farm it for a while (12 hours?). Maybe there'd even be a mini-boss to fight. Once the relic alert expired, it would have to be found again. The point would be to allow players farm a specific relic to take away from that part of grinding. 

That system is obviously flawed and I don't expect it to be implemented. But I would like it if DE delivered a little bit better on the idea of hunting the relic like they advertised. 

35 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

4) This is an amazing idea. Maybe ajust the price depending on the rarity of the additional reward :
-100 per additional common reward.
-200  per additional uncommon reward.
-300 per additional rare reward.

Yeah, that's a good idea, but then the order of choosing relics could get complicated. *shrug*

36 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

5) Not sure if it's a good idea because the relic system were introduced to incite players to stop playing only on the void.

You're probably right, but I wish there was more reason to go there other than argon crystals.It feels like it should be end game but its just...game...

[Loswaith]

I have been considering a similar post.  Lets face it whether the relic system is better or worse than the void style is irrelevant now, The relic and fissure system is here to stay, so I'm all for making it be obviously better than the previous one.

The OPs ideas are good too I'm all for points 1 and 3, 2 and 4 not as much though happy to give players options, 5 is also good but would need to be reasonable that just running a fissure isn't just better (like for the alerts).

Relic Acquisition:

Spoiler

Alerts:
Alerts showing up with specific relics, like we used to get for void keys.  Could even be a rare chance for alerts to give vaulted relics, like the Treasury Ship alerts we used to get
 - Benefit: Occasional guaranteed relic types and a chance for newer players to get vaulted relics.

 

Missions:
This is the big part, as it stands in most cases all relics for a certain tier can be rewarded, this just makes the grind worse for no real gain and also is counter to getting players out of playing on just one tile-set (the biggest reason for the change from void to the relic/fissure system).  Especially with the trend of shrinking active (relics currently able to be farmed) Lith (5) relics and the increasing Axi (10) relic pools, while Meso (7) and Neo (6) haven't changed much yet.

Individual relics are harder to farm than they really need to be.  As it is relics have huge amounts of places that you can get most of the relics from.  What would be great is that fewer relics per location (or loot rotation) need to be the norm.  Typically some 2-3 relics per location (or loot rotation) is all that any one node (or loot rotation) should really have, without reducing the overall current chance to get any relic.

So for example currently Hieracon (Pluto) and Berehynia (Sedna) have just about all the Axi and Neo relics available, this change would mean that Hieracon would have only 2-3 Specific Axi relics (eg. A1, B1), and 2-3 specific Neo relics (eg V3, N5) that could be looted from there, while Bereheynia would have 2-3 completely different Axi relics (eg. C1, E2) and Neo relics (eg. T1, N4) to Hieracon.  While a third location like Despina (Neptune) would have different Axi relics (eg N2, V5) and Neo Relics (eg. B1, V2) to either Hieracon or Bereheynia.

 - Benefits: This means players need to play a variety of missions to get the relics they want (big point of the Void change), while actually having better chances to get a specific relic they are after much more likely.

 

Relic Packs:
This applies to both Syndicate packs and Platinum packs.  Given now relics are technically all equal now and we use much more of them than keys these packs would be better suited if they gave a single random relic of each tier.  Thus each pack gives one random Axi, Neo, Meso and Lith relic.
Currently the packs give one random Neo or Axi Relic and two random Lith and Meso relics (It says just random but I've never gotten anything other than the tier 1 and 2 relics/keys in the hundreds of packs I've gotten from syndicates).  For keys this worked out fine as keys could always be of use for the latest prime parts and the keys had an inherent rarity.  Now that the relics are essentially equal (despite the tendency to have more Axi and fewer Lith relics), thus this limitation isn't needed, the relics themselves implicitly take care of the rarity.

A bonus to this could be that about 5% of the time you get a random Vaulted relic of that tier (each tier rolled separately) from these packs (a critical loot roll if you will).

- Benefit: Makes the packs more desirable buy with plat and reputation and more fair for all players, while giving a chance for newer players a small chance to actually get vaulted relics out side of trading.

 

 

Trace Acquisition:

 

Alerts:
As it stands alerts are just not really worth the time of just running a fissure mission without a relic (or even with one). As they can reward up to 30 traces rather than just the 10 the mission gives.
Have these alerts not only reward some traces, but have reactants that drop off enemies (or add a bunch of eximus that drop traces) that will give bonus traces (even if capped to 25-30 per mission unboosted).

Fissures:
Currently reactants really have little impact on the mission itself other than punishing those players that simply didn't get enough reactants spawning (or came in very late to a mission, which likely shouldn't happen anyway).  It doesn't really offer anything to the mission itself nor impact the time you can complete missions.  IE The missions would play much the same without them.

Reactants however could remain collectible, even after a player gains the 10 required to open a relic, each additional reactant collected giving one additional trace until you hit a cap of 25 to 30 (50 to 60 if boosted).  
As it stands now players can already get 30 traces randomly for a mission (more if boosted), and gaining additional traces (via reactants) helps not only keep players longer in the mission (giving others time to catch up if they arrive late to the mission) but would help alleviate the very low trace gains through some additional effort.

While traces were meant to be a "bonus" they have essentially become a standard to get close to the old void chances.  25-30 each mission gives the players the choice of making every relic exceptional, or saving traces for those radiant runs.

- Benefit: Reactants have more impact on the fissure missions (an actual purpose to them), while giving players ways to mitigate constant bad luck (getting low traces) by putting in more effort.  While helping newer players (that wont have as easy access to radiant groups) to actually have more reasonable chances to get older prime parts.

 

Endless Fissures:
Endless fissures currently don't reset reactant gains each round unless you use a relic.  This basically makes the fissure missions less desirable to just play, rather than only for unlocking the relic (which is typically faster in other missions).  While the booster is a nice incentive its not really worth the many relics needed to get there.
Each rotation could reset the reactants, this would then mean players would not only be able to farm traces better but could also make the fissures useful for farming up the relics themselves (something that would make the missions more intuitive).

 - Benefit: Gives more of a purpose to endless fissures (making them actually useful for farming traces and relics, or just to play), while having them seem more intuitive, thus part of the setting.

 

Relic Use:

Spoiler

 

Multiple Relics:
Essentially this would be letting an individual player(s) spend more relics per mission to cover for fewer players in the squad.
So a solo player for example could use 4 relics for a mission, but like normal would only get to chose one reward.  A Duo team would each use one and either of the players could add more relics to make up all 4 relic slots. For three players any one of them could put up a second relic to make up the 4, but each would still need to use one relic to get the option.

If a player doesn't use a relic, thus not getting a choice, then the group could only have fewer relics as well. (though this need not be a limitation, as it could be used to help newer players, clan-mates, or friends that play less frequently).

 - Benefit: Squads of fewer than 4 players get similar chances as full squads but at higher cost to those individuals.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Loswaith

[peterc3]

Would this not allow you to burn all of your unimportant relics for traces to then go to specific places for the newly released relics for the new primes and guarantee you get whatever new prime within mere hours of it releasing?

[drakegt]

31 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Would this not allow you to burn all of your unimportant relics for traces to then go to specific places for the newly released relics for the new primes and guarantee you get whatever new prime within mere hours of it releasing?

So ideally, no. 

It would let you burn relics if that's what you wanted to do, but they would give you minimal traces so that's not as optimal. It would take 20 Lith relics to make one radiant with my proposed system. 

Also, the relics would not be immediately available. I think they would be a system similar to how acolytes work. Players have to find the location, they appear for a limited time, then they go away again and have to be found again. The idea is that acquisition time is increased, but the grind is reduced.

For instance, lets say that it take 20 minutes to get any Axi relic. There are eight relics, so to get the one you want given equal odds would take 20 * 8 minutes or 2 hours 40 minutes. To get the same time restriction, the relic could be on 3 hour alert rotation (down for 3 hours, up for 1, down for 3, etc). Any system that implemented that kind of time gap would limit how fast someone can get the prime. The trade-off is that players don't have to grind the same mission and be at the mercy of RNG. 

I don't want really want people to be able to acquire things any faster. 

[Loswaith]

On 3/3/2017 at 7:00 AM, peterc3 said:

.. guarantee you get whatever new prime within mere hours of it releasing?

This is essentially what syndicate reputation and their emblems already allow players to do.  Which is sadly by far the best ways to actually get your prime parts.  As the longer you leave it the fewer players that will be using those relics, makeing much harder to find organised groups for those relics.

A lot of these suggestions will help those players that do take their time and get stuff later, more so than helping those that rush them as soon as they are released.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Loswaith

[LTDaWolf]

personally I think they should make traces harder to get and reflect that on using them so that when you do get them and use them you get something worth while 

Reason because at the moment it seems a waste of time to farm for hours to build up your traces to make a relic radiant just to get a common reward.

Example I spent a day farming traces  900 to be exact   used them  to make 9 relics radiant in the hope of a rare drop for parts I wanted  just to do 9 runs and get 9 common rewards annoyingly common rewards that I would have got if I just used intact relics (so what was the point of making them radiant to start with?.

Make the traces harder to get  so when you do use them you get a reward  from the uncommon or rare section  either that or  make rewards reflect tenno level.

Its almost as bad as doing  all 3 sorties to get a lens I dont even need or my 19th anasa

[drakegt]

1 hour ago, LTDaWolf said:

personally I think they should make traces harder to get and reflect that on using them so that when you do get them and use them you get something worth while 

Reason because at the moment it seems a waste of time to farm for hours to build up your traces to make a relic radiant just to get a common reward.

Example I spent a day farming traces  900 to be exact   used them  to make 9 relics radiant in the hope of a rare drop for parts I wanted  just to do 9 runs and get 9 common rewards annoyingly common rewards that I would have got if I just used intact relics (so what was the point of making them radiant to start with?.

Make the traces harder to get  so when you do use them you get a reward  from the uncommon or rare section  either that or  make rewards reflect tenno level.

Its almost as bad as doing  all 3 sorties to get a lens I dont even need or my 19th anasa

You're totally right. That would be another valid fix to the system!