Survivability

[ChurroBatman]

well, im sure at least SOMEONE has mentioned this before, but i personally think that there needs to be a better way of recovering HP in a game. In the higher leveled missions when the Grineer enter their 20's and up, if you take a hit, its pretty hard to get that HP back, especially since HP orbs, are slighty rare drops as they can only be found in containers, and only recover a measly 25 health. in earlier levels when your frame's maximum capacity for health is between 90-150, thats completely fine, but in later levels its too little to really make much of a difference. i think that the amount of health recovered from said orbs should be set to a percentage as opposed to a certain amount, even going as far as making the percentage affect the team heals, or large heals. its annoying to always need the white mage that is trinity casting blessing to recover enough hp for players so they dont die by walking into a toxic cloud for a split second

 

EDIT: after more thought and consideration, the overall difficulty of maintaining health is usually why you rarely see warframe players even bothering to utilize the Steel Fiber, or Vitality mods. relying on that stat to be good enough to really help you is just so outclassed by simply throwing on a Redirection mod. you hardly ever even NEED to use fast deflection in order to stay alive better than you can hope to with the combined efforts of vitality and steel fiber

Edited July 11, 2013 by ChurroBatman

[thecolin-]

Kinda feels like a misleading title but I'm with you on this

[Oizen]

I've never seen my HP get touched in Grineer missions....

 

Only time it ever drops is due to Ancient Disruptors.

 

Sheild becomes really OP if you upgrade it. (Or just use Shade)

[ChurroBatman]

I've never seen my HP get touched in Grineer missions....

 

Only time it ever drops is due to Ancient Disruptors.

 

Sheild becomes really OP if you upgrade it. (Or just use Shade)

and there lies the problem, with the shields being a more reliable source for well, any kind of fighting, it kind of removes the entire point of having HP, and Armor rating mods, health is so much more of a hassle to maintain and keep up than shields that it completely defeats the purpose of having an armor rating even

[CapricaSix]

I've always hated being dependant on drops for recovering life, energy, mana, or anything else in any games out there. It's a very archaic system and those games are in short supply these days. I think everything should regenerate, only much much slower than how shields regenerate {especially with shield recharge mod}. Certain artifacts already helping with the regeneration could still be useful as they'll be making that process faster.

 

Only thing we get from drops should be limited to materials, blueprints and ammo. otherwise it feels too "arcade" drinking a magical X item and healing up. Tenno are infected with technocyte virus, that could give them certain regenerative attributes perhaps, why not?

Edited July 11, 2013 by CapricaSix

[Tempera]

well, im sure at least SOMEONE has mentioned this before, but i personally think that there needs to be a better way of recovering HP in a game.

Oh! I have an idea!

 

The devs should add in a small pool of regenerating health, providing players with a small buffer against damage, affording players the chance to make some mistakes, and preventing players from turtling around game levels attempting to avoid taking any damage.

 

We can then keep the rest of the health pool as static, punishing players if they screw up too badly and take enough damage to overcome their pool of regenerating health.

 

Of course, this could quickly become frustrating, particularly if there are enemies that can bypass this regenerating health pool and attack the player's static health pool directly. So it would probably be a good idea for the devs to allow players to heal their static pool. But to prevent the static health pool from becoming utterly meaningless, the options to replenish said static health pool should probably be spaced apart so that the player cannot fully regenerate their static health between large engagements.

 

... Bleh, "static health" and "regenerating health" sounds a bit silly. I propose giving them names that fit with Warframe's aesthetics better.

 

How does "health" and "shields" sound?

 

Edit: The point of this post is to point out how silly this concept is.

 

Healing large amounts of health is not a very good idea. At low levels, it's easy-ish to regenerate health because those are the level devs expect new players to play at; it provides new players with a buffer to develop their skills at, before they become skilled enough to be able to challenge the game without that buffer.

 

We already have a regenerating health system in our shields. If you're taking static health damage, then you've screwed up. The devs shouldn't make it easy to recover from this damage.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Tempera

[_Rue_]

Red orbs from lockers. Blue from containers... blue and red i think.

[Oizen]

and there lies the problem, with the shields being a more reliable source for well, any kind of fighting, it kind of removes the entire point of having HP, and Armor rating mods, health is so much more of a hassle to maintain and keep up than shields that it completely defeats the purpose of having an armor rating even

And the best part of shield boosts + shade.

 

If you get knocked down, Shade will cloak you and the enemies will just stop attacking. You can Literally stand there until your Sheilds are back at 100%.

 

Use your Super move, kill everything around you and go on with the mission. I feel like the HP pool is too low, and the Sheild Pool is too high.

 

Kinda why I like Frost though, Tanky frames are fun

Edited July 11, 2013 by Oizen

[CapricaSix]

Oh! I have an idea!

 

The devs should add in a small pool of regenerating health, providing players with a small buffer against damage, affording players the chance to make some mistakes, and preventing players from turtling around game levels attempting to avoid taking any damage.

That sounds like how Resident Evil 6 did it. You basically get 4-5 bars of health, when you get hit you only lose a small portion of a single bar and not all of it. if you don't get hit any more and rest a bit, that "damaged health bar" starts to regenerate, but it doesn't heal up further once the bar is full, so if you lose a health bar completely you will have to use a healing item to fill them up again.

[Tempera]

That sounds like how Resident Evil 6 did it. You basically get 4-5 bars of health, when you get hit you only lose a small portion of a single bar and not all of it. if you don't get hit any more and rest a bit, that "damaged health bar" starts to regenerate, but it doesn't heal up further once the bar is full, so if you lose a health bar completely you will have to use a healing item to fill them up again.

That was, that was, uh, sarcasm. It's the system Warframe already has in place- shields are your regenerating health pool,  and health is your static health pool.

[Oizen]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Rejuvenation

 

 

Didn't one of the Livestreams say they were going to make Artifacts upgradable in 9? Just equip this and upgrade it then.

[CapricaSix]

That was, that was, uh, sarcasm. It's the system Warframe already has in place- shields are your regenerating health pool,  and health is your static health pool.

Either way it's a good suggestion :P whether you meant for it or not. for the health regeneration that is, not shields. Giving it a different name doesn't make it any better, shields regenerate, health only keeps going down as you get hit or poisoned. I believe the whole idea is supposed to be not being dependant on drops or Trinity's mercy/ability to use her skills.

[Tempera]

Either way it's a good suggestion :P whether you meant for it or not. for the health regeneration that is, not shields. Giving it a different name doesn't make it any better, shields regenerate, health only keeps going down as you get hit or poisoned. I believe the whole idea is supposed to be not being dependant on drops or Trinity's mercy/ability to use her skills.

My point is that it's pointless, though. It makes shields meaningless; they're already there to provide you with a source of health you can use to "regenerate". Allowing you to regenerate health to a significant degree renders shields pointless.

[ChurroBatman]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Rejuvenation

 

 

Didn't one of the Livestreams say they were going to make Artifacts upgradable in 9? Just equip this and upgrade it then.

seems legit

[ChurroBatman]

My point is that it's pointless, though. It makes shields meaningless; they're already there to provide you with a source of health you can use to "regenerate". Allowing you to regenerate health to a significant degree renders shields pointless.

ah, but the fact that shields are so much more dependable than health is what renders the whole use of an armor rating system useless. you can't point out one being entirely useless without making the other seem useless. the entire point of what im saying is that shields shouldnt be the only logical thing to buff out in order to tank well

[CapricaSix]

My point is that it's pointless, though. It makes shields meaningless; they're already there to provide you with a source of health you can use to "regenerate". Allowing you to regenerate health to a significant degree renders shields pointless.

How is it meaningless, it depletes faster as it recharges faster than anything else {except stamina}, just make the health regenerate really really slow when you're not in battle, would that really be so bad? As far as I can tell, the only thing it makes meaningless is the silly health ball drops.

[jibbahjabbah]

I like the system the way it is. There's got to be some danger in the game. Slowly watching that HP bar go lower and lower each time you get too cocky is  pretty good reminder that you aren't invincible and need to use at least some finesse.

 

Also you can buy health packs (be a bro and get them team health packs) and take them with you just incase. Between that and the health orbs that aren't nearly as rare as you make them out to be it's pretty hard to have your health drop to zero. 

 

If you find yourself dying all the time it's because your getting ahead of yourself in terms of level difficultly. You gotta crawl before you walk.

[Renkai141]

I'll stick and lean back onto the side that agrees.

It just makes too much sense to disagree with.

Missions should support level-wise.

Such as bigger health drops ranging from 25~50(level 15?) and such&such. Maybe just dropping multiple of them.

Specially in Voids(T3's).

As for this, this also raises a big issue with items. Nobody uses those as highly, because 100 hp might seem much on early levels but not as much late levels- almost making it completely and utterly useless.

[Renkai141]

How is it meaningless, it depletes faster as it recharges faster than anything else {except stamina}, just make the health regenerate really really slow when you're not in battle, would that really be so bad? As far as I can tell, the only thing it makes meaningless is the silly health ball drops.

If it restored automatically, it was something that the Devs definetly did not plan and I believe it should highly be avoided. Not, only because the game is too mercyfull- but it would just deplete the difficutly for the whole game and again as I mentioned, make items as almost and completely useless.

[ChurroBatman]

How is it meaningless, it depletes faster as it recharges faster than anything else {except stamina}, just make the health regenerate really really slow when you're not in battle, would that really be so bad? As far as I can tell, the only thing it makes meaningless is the silly health ball drops.

yeah, i dont think flat out regeneration outside of using rejuvenation is too much of a good idea, because that would make the game too easy. i'd stick to the percentage increase from balls and items as opposed to flat out restoration 

[CapricaSix]

If it restored automatically, it was something that the Devs definetly did not plan and I believe it should highly be avoided. Not, only because the game is too mercyfull- but it would just deplete the difficutly for the whole game and again as I mentioned, make items as almost and completely useless.

Know what else the devs didn't plan? A card system that replaced the dodgy old skill tree. Nothing is set in stone and anything can be changed for the better, it's best not to assume the worst before even trying it.

 

Nobody here is suggesting that health should regenerate exactly like the shields. You might even have a harder time this way since you won't be getting any random health drops, you'll have to rest a bit or be more careful instead of desperately searching around for loot.

 

 

yeah, i dont think flat out regeneration outside of using rejuvenation is too much of a good idea, because that would make the game too easy. i'd stick to the percentage increase from balls and items as opposed to flat out restoration 

Sorry for the bad phrasing, I was referring to the shields that depletes really fast and recharges really fast, wasn't implying that health regeneration should be just like it.

Edited July 11, 2013 by CapricaSix

[jibbahjabbah]

If it restored automatically, it was something that the Devs definetly did not plan and I believe it should highly be avoided. Not, only because the game is too mercyfull- but it would just deplete the difficutly for the whole game and again as I mentioned, make items as almost and completely useless.

 

Unless on defense I usually carry four team health packs. 400 hp is about enough to refill the health of just about any lvl 30 warframe. Certainly enough to keep you in the game. You're not suppose to rely on your hp to keep you in the fight so if you're doing it right you really shouldn't need more than that - and really you shouldn't even need that.

Edited July 11, 2013 by jibbahjabbah

[Tempera]

How is it meaningless, it depletes faster as it recharges faster than anything else {except stamina}, just make the health regenerate really really slow when you're not in battle, would that really be so bad? As far as I can tell, the only thing it makes meaningless is the silly health ball drops.

Hm. Perhaps the devs could give players the chance to nab an artifact that does exactly that!

 

ah, but the fact that shields are so much more dependable than health is what renders the whole use of an armor rating system useless. you can't point out one being entirely useless without making the other seem useless. the entire point of what im saying is that shields shouldnt be the only logical thing to buff out in order to tank well

Shields provide all players with a small "buffer" that allows them to screw up to a certain extent without being immediately punished for it. This gives the devs wriggle room; they can afford to allow players to, say, take a certain amount of damage while firing at enemies, without then having lessened resources to take on further content.

 

The tanking system, as it stands currently, is kind of worthless; I'll agree with that. That doesn't make the static/regenerative health pools worthless, however; they are two separate systems with two separate intentions behind them.

[CapricaSix]

The thing is, this could be tweaked and balanced so easily. Such as the delay before your shields start to regenerate, the rate it regenerates, how much it actually adds to your health, it can be made as difficult as the devs want it to be. It doesn't necessarily mean that health/energy regeneration would make the game incredibly easy, if it's done right.

 

@Tempera: Nobody uses any other artifacts because of these trivial useless regeneration artifacts, it's not a solution, it's a half arsed "patch" for a bad design. Just my opinion though.

Edited July 11, 2013 by CapricaSix

[Tempera]

@Tempera: Nobody uses any other artifacts because of these trivial useless regeneration artifacts, it's not a solution, it's a half arsed "patch" for a bad design. Just my opinion though.

Hey, that's not true.

 

... People use Enemy Radar, too.

 

Although my point was still that health regeneration is pointless when you already have a regenerating health pool. The health orbs are the closest you'll get to a regenerating static health pool because the entire point of the static health pool is that it only goes down if you're @(*()$ up- and the devs don't particularly want to make it easy to recover from your F***-ups, as that makes challenge essentially worthless.