Puncture and Punchthrough ~interesting mechanic-

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

well a few days/week ago? i had asked some questions on this , lead me to have some discord help further  testing this

from what weve been able to discern of this trait is that punchthrough in fact acts as a base damage buff to puncture based weapons and doenst negate armor which i thought was how it worked.

now if your unfamiliar with puncture weapons mechanics, they are effective against armor not shields 

when you apply weaken [happens often] its stacks multiplicative a 30% debuff of the targets damage output 

so ive always enjoyed it as a damage type because grineer are my main foe 

backstory : 

Spoiler

when i was messing with my telos boltor [because i love tinkering with mods/weapons] and did a mod swap to punchthrough on a 130 heavy gunner took less then half my magazine..without 3+ magazines ... so i was like ..wth ....

now using it on supra and others and the effect does amplify the damage also, much faster , plus bypasses objects now so using with mirage is in some ways worse then a simulor .... 

further research on this, is it is a very useful combo on some but not for all, weapons with some puncture dont get much benefit, the weapons with puncture only or large puncture seem to be the only that benefit 

so far someone in discord stated they believed mogamu did a video on this very mechanic, but i havent had luck on this 

further feedback or input is appreciated 

[Levenna]

punch through is totally unrelated to puncture damage, punch through determines if the shot will pass through an enemy or not and head to the ground behind the enemy or in many cases the next enemy. Puncture is an actual IPS damage type, and excels against armour as you said.

Someone please correct me if i'm totally wrong here, but thats how i think it works

Edited March 7, 2017 by Wolfsfang202

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, Wolfsfang202 said:

punch through is totally unrelated to puncture damage, punch through determines if the shot will pass through an enemy or not and head to the ground behind the enemy or in many cases the next enemy. Puncture is an actual IPS damage type, and excels against armour as you said.

Someone please correct me if i'm totally wrong here, but thats how i think it works

thats what i thought , i only found this out accidentally, but on testing it does buff it , im still looking for a reference video on it, but you can try it yourself , works in and out of simulacron 

[Levenna]

Just now, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

thats what i thought , i only found this out accidentally, but on testing it does buff it , im still looking for a reference video on it, but you can try it yourself , works in and out of simulacron 

hmm i'll go play around with it on my Latron P in a bit

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, Wolfsfang202 said:

hmm i'll go play around with it on my Latron P in a bit

 honestly i find it more useful on full auto weapons with this synergy/trick? 

but just aim center mass and do a comparison of the health bar drop rate   

[NinjaZeku]

Just checking, did you do those tests on enemies impaled on Nezha's Divine Spears by any chance?

Because I remember that having funky interactions with Punch Through,
letting you hit the same enemy multiple times with a single projectile.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, NinjaZeku said:

Just checking, did you do those tests on enemies impaled on Nezha's Divine Spears by any chance?

Because I remember that having funky interactions with Punch Through,
letting you hit the same enemy multiple times with a single projectile.

nope ive tried it on a variety of frames same effect seem to happen, i was originally using nidus when i found it though 

[Levenna]

hmm after testing with quite a number of weapons, i havn't noticed any change other than the usual minor difference with crit n things

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, Wolfsfang202 said:

hmm after testing with quite a number of weapons, i havn't noticed any change other than the usual minor difference with crit n things

which ones did you use,  my test ones are boltaces and supra  as those seemed to benift from this 

when i tried latron P i didnt notice much , maybe a slight variance in hp loss ? 

 

[Levenna]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

which ones did you use,  my test ones are boltaces and supra  as those seemed to benift from this 

when i tried latron P i didnt notice much , maybe a slight variance in hp loss ? 

 

latron p, vectis p, tiberon, paris p and i got a friend of mine to test out a boltor prime

 

oh and a mag with a gas lanka because i was bored and its funny, if entirely unrelated

Edited March 7, 2017 by Wolfsfang202

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, Wolfsfang202 said:

latron p, vectis p, tiberon, paris p and i got a friend of mine to test out a boltor prime

which punchthrough mod was used? 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

6 minutes ago, Wolfsfang202 said:

latron p, vectis p, tiberon, paris p and i got a friend of mine to test out a boltor prime

at 3 min in i started talking on this 

Spoiler

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/126344551

 

[Lluid]

As others, I expect it to be unrelated to puncture damage. Couldn't it be related to "touching the enemy twice" like when you shoot an arm and then the bullet leaves the arm and reaches the body of the same enemy ? Does it count as 2 hits ?

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

2 minutes ago, Lluid said:

As others, I expect it to be unrelated to puncture damage. Couldn't it be related to "touching the enemy twice" like when you shoot an arm and then the bullet leaves the arm and reaches the body of the same enemy ? Does it count as 2 hits ?

 thats a possibility, my builds using with the punchthrough with corrosive , base damage and status , and a large ammo reserve and multishot 

what i thought was that they were ignoring armor and dealing direct hp damage, but when i tried testing a shattering impact combo with this in conjunction on a melee it went through faster

so it could be counting a hit with punchthrough as a multiple hits which could account for the faster rate of hp loss 

# ill try to do a twitch stream of tests and showing whats going on , so far i just touched base a bit on my banshee stream  

Edited March 7, 2017 by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

[Levenna]

35 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

which punchthrough mod was used? 

both metal auger and shred or a combination thereof

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 hour ago, Wolfsfang202 said:

both metal auger and shred or a combination thereof

i tried metal and it seemed to do about the same, normally im using shred as fire rate helps on the full auto weapons for dps 

pretty much things like supra , telos boltor were what were having the best results 

ill do a twitch stream on tonight and post the link

ill go through tests with or without the mod, and on different weapons 

i did have a brief showing of it in the link @ 3min in  https://www.twitch.tv/videos/126344551

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

 did some rough testing so here a break down of this weird mechanic, didnt get to stream sadly  

 this synergy isnt ground breaking , more or less just helped conserve ammo , and helped speed up my of killing enemies 130 but there seems to be a limited pool that this benefits and how it does oddly 

- range /velocity and fire rate seem to be a factor with this:  factor range at being close to 1-5 ish meters away is were it seems to show prominently 

- status conditions like viral help, corrosive seemed best to helps this, if using raw puncture + punchtrhough its not noticeable 

 

[Levenna]

47 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

 did some rough testing so here a break down of this weird mechanic, didnt get to stream sadly  

 this synergy isnt ground breaking , more or less just helped conserve ammo , and helped speed up my of killing enemies 130 but there seems to be a limited pool that this benefits and how it does oddly 

- range /velocity and fire rate seem to be a factor with this:  factor range at being close to 1-5 ish meters away is were it seems to show prominently 

- status conditions like viral help, corrosive seemed best to helps this, if using raw puncture + punchtrhough its not noticeable 

 

well corrosive would help since, well, it strips armour.. and its against armoured enemies.. XD

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 hour ago, Wolfsfang202 said:

well corrosive would help since, well, it strips armour.. and its against armoured enemies.. XD

lol yep ,the latron and even vectis P didnt seem to do much better in performance  when it tried it out 

shotguns didnt seem to benefit , bows didnt have any benefit , secondaries still need to test 

so far what does seem to benefit is high fire rate weapons that i can tell 

[Tyrian3k]

Honestly, I doubt that it is related to puncture damage, but to weapons firing projectiles with travel time.

Hitscan weapons are likely programmed to not be able to hit one enemy multiple times because all hits would be generated in the same moment, but a projectile with travel time could circumvent that and cause multiple hits.

Best test for this would be to shoot an enemy through both legs with a weapon without multishot and see if you sometimes see multiple damage numbers pop up.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Tyrian3k

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

30 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

Honestly, I doubt that it is related to puncture damage, but to weapons firing projectiles with travel time.

Hitscan weapons are likely programmed to not be able to hit one enemy multiple times because all hits would be generated in the same moment, but a projectile with travel time could circumvent that and cause multiple hits.

Best test for this would be to shoot an enemy through both legs with a weapon without multishot and see if you sometimes see multiple damage numbers pop up.

that seems logical