BiG CLANS HAVE NO FUTURE

[Justice_Ember]

11 hours ago, ---RV---Maniac said:

-snip-

At this point you are just screaming back and not even using original arguments at that, instead of projecting try actual conversation next time. Since you are done I'll leave this here, no point in beaten a man who beats himself up.

[Atriek]

Dropping my two cents, which some others have touched on:

I think the resource scaling is fine, in order to let people play with the group they like. What clans really need is better management tools, so that leeches can be found and kicked. Also a good idea would be self-regulation, where instead of the research being so costly, make copying the BP cost some of the research resources (instead of just 15k credits). Another option would be having access to research be dependent on rank, so you could have initiates that can't steal your research until they prove they're active, etc. 

[Mousarchy]

i love how you complain about big clans having no future and then follow it up to basically give small clans no future. if all research cost the same on everytier. then DE would have to raise the cost to be mroe fitting for these 1k man clans. this will jsut end up screwing up the small personal clans of friends and pals and force everyone to all be in one massive clan because it will make small clans a night mare.
hell I actually removed and REDUCED my clan size because of hema because its not worth the effort to carry a 100 man clan if they arnt active.  so. while i can understand your plieght. i differ in the fact I did something about my inactivity issue.

[Mousarchy]

On 4/11/2017 at 8:56 AM, Atriek said:

Dropping my two cents, which some others have touched on:

I think the resource scaling is fine, in order to let people play with the group they like. What clans really need is better management tools, so that leeches can be found and kicked. Also a good idea would be self-regulation, where instead of the research being so costly, make copying the BP cost some of the research resources (instead of just 15k credits). Another option would be having access to research be dependent on rank, so you could have initiates that can't steal your research until they prove they're active, etc. 

I would LOVE to see a "so&so donated to here" would be awsome for those times someone manages to snipe my research. makes me feel nice to see people helping.

[DTMob]

The problem doesn't radiates in research cost as you all have said. 

 

YesYes I said it. 

 

i believe this can be easily fixed by changing the  BP cost to resources instead of an absurd low credit price. 

 

If The Research cost is 12k oxium the cost for the BP should be a percentage of it, or better yet a fair amount according to the player's MR. 

 

CLANNIES'  MANAGEMENT 

It has to be changed to BP available depending to  clan hierarchy, hierarchies would be upgraded automatically depending on the player contribution to clan (as a matter of quest imposed by warlord). 

Rewards Set by warlord With a more well thought clan inventory.

And also the upcoming clan missions. That will leave a portion of a new currency to clan's inventory to buy clan upgrades as passive skills and for the player a BP of the Labs only unlocked by clan missions. 

They can make a huge use of clan missions and dojo. 

[SolarDwagon]

Or, research scaling is fine as it is and you should stop trying to run a moon clan that isn't actually a moon clan.

[(PSN)Magpie_42]

I must say up front that: I agree with the title of this thread, absolutely!

Managing a big clan is a job and a (meta) game in itself and it doesn't leave you much time to play the actual game.

The scaling of the resources needed for research is fair, the lack of records of who is contributing what is not. Warlords should have that info available to properly manage the clan.

The few real benefits of a large clan to new players evaporate as soon as they reach mid ranks.

The low active ratio is less of a problem in small clans and it negates the need to constantly kick and recruit.

But, being a warlord of a huge clan has its prestige!

So, big clan warlords, instead of complaining about resource scaling, leeches, inactivity, etc. try to figure out why you wanted a big clan in the first place. If prestige and bragging rights were the major factors, then you got to put up with all these "inconveniences" (with little in return). If you enjoy the "managing" meta game then it's worth the trouble.

It all comes down to how you want to play the game...

[-SMG-Demiroach]

I think the solution is simple, that you get clan contribution points instead of just using credits. You use the clan contribution points to buy the weapons in the dojo research

[Tyr01]

The amounts are actually balanced. 10 people is 1x cost so in a moon clan it is the size of 100 ghost clans so 100x the amount. The problem is finding 100 people willing to contribute the ghost clan's amount when no one seemingly wants to contribute and there is no way to verify if they did. Even in my ghost clan it's hard to figure out who besides myself contributed as there isn't a log, treasury or system to provide select access (believe me I am pleasantly surprised if there is a donation).

My thoughts on the matter is for clan's they took all the ideas we had and made them into relay's. Who knows, they may take that one step further and make clans your own personal space instead of for community research and have a node open on a relay where they force each individual to contribute so there are no more leeches.

[GOLANX]

maybe part of the problem is the dark sectors. i wasnt here for those days but it seemed to me that the bigger clans would have more advantage in the dark sectors, as more active participants would be there to help defend the rail. smaller clans could band together into loose alliances to get their own dark sectors and hold them. without the dark sector system, the incentive for larger clans isn't there. 

better clan management tools isn't just something big clans need, honestly if you have a 1k member clan id be suprised if you remembered half of the people in the clan.I run a shadow clan and cant tell who donated to what project. i just have to take their word for it. clan management tools are just QoL and will not fix the systemic issues with bigger clans.

there needs to be something in the game regardless of scaling that benefits a clan for having more active members, this should come along with QoL management tools to so that warlords of larger clans can see who is participating and who isn't  furthermore there should be non-combat oriented quest that Warlords can set up that can automatically promote players, while Potentially being able to set simple quests that can demote players (down to untouchable rank) and a Warlord could purge such members periodically. 

we should also think about having open recruitment policies, allowing new players to join clans whose slogan they like as "trial" members, after completing quests for the warlord they can be promoted to new member or soldier status that is less probationary.

[-VV-ODiN]

 

Back to origin, I can see many of us will agree with me: the research cost must be charge to each clan member.

The system should be inverted: to get BP into dojo lab DE could add special type of mission cap-scan new weapons, in order to get BP into dojo lab, then clan would research it using credits, only. 

When research is done - ready to copy, every clan member would have to pay with "X" resources, the same cost for everyone.

DE will bypass all unfair clan tiers rates in this way.  For Hema BP every1 (current members/future recruits)  would pay 500 mut.mass alone.

 

Also there will not be so many free give aways, because this extra copy BP cost. Talking about Supra vandal

 

[KIREEK]

1 - you advance to a higher tier clan if you can, you don't decide from the start that you want that specific tier, you placed the transportation ahead of the horses.

2 - research effort remains the same, but again you made the mistake of having an unprepared clan, with fewer recruiters, no recruit filters and no effort regarding adjustments, like a tier downgrade, kicking or telling your recruiters to do what is asked from them

3 - higher tier clans usually accept everything and the kitchen sink, When my ghost clan recruits, we often end up rejecting on average 15 players before we give an opportunity to a certain player, from the ones that enter, it is often for them to eventually leave or be kicked due to the very low effort, in fact, asside from me only 2 players have managed to enter the acceptable level, they aren't hardcore or anything and my clan is actually very relaxed, but i see the struggle to find atleast 2 players that can do something on the long term.

We get things done, but that's because i'm a hawk and in top of the issues. Why? because it's my responsibility.

if you do not manage the clan frequently and if you simply accept players because they said the IGN, you are going to get below average players and will likely receive players that don't care about the clan you have.

Here's a free filter tip for you, a high MR player aks ingame for you to link the clan. While this may be something we both might do, asking for a link is an automatic disqualification to enter my clan, why? that you need to understand what most players seek in a clan (hint, it's not your clan objectives, rules, dojo or size)

4 - The game in this case rewards for clan management effort, making things easy to you means 2 things:

• someone will have an even worse manageement and will demand it to be even easier, reaching a bortherline situation where the clan is given a reward for laziness
• those who did more effort see no reason to do said effort because someone lazier got the same content

 

Big clans have future, they start as a ghost, once you have enough recruiters then you advance tier, you fill the clan, kick the inactives, demand results from the active recruiters and players, you do events, you kick half the clan, you recruit new members, you make activities to check activity (you can use logins, a cheap way that has no results if you still hang to that mechanism), you gather more recruiters, you advandce tier and then maybe in 1 year or more you might reach the moon clan tier.

If you have inactives, kick them from the clan and downgrade the clan size, that easy.

Edited May 24, 2017 by KIREEK

[SolarDwagon]

35 minutes ago, -VV-ODiN said:

 

Back to origin, I can see many of us will agree with me: the research cost must be charge to each clan member.

The system should be inverted: to get BP into dojo lab DE could add special type of mission cap-scan new weapons, in order to get BP into dojo lab, then clan would research it using credits, only. 

When research is done - ready to copy, every clan member would have to pay with "X" resources, the same cost for everyone.

DE will bypass all unfair clan tiers rates in this way.  For Hema BP every1 (current members/future recruits)  would pay 500 mut.mass alone.

 

Also there will not be so many free give aways, because this extra copy BP cost. Talking about Supra vandal

 

I have seen very few people agree with you.

[-VV-ODiN]

@KIREEK

If you dont see advantage of self regulation system, then there is not point to carry on with conversation...

I repeat just only for you:

We know perfectly how keep clan alive: kick long AFKs and recruit new members... you dont need high school managment education for it

We help, carry or taxi active clanmates to alerts, missions, farm, xp farm, sortie, LoRs... but we simply cannt farm missing quotas

there is no tool how to monitore contributions, so what you propose 24h guards by lab? to keep track who and how much gave...

 

@SolarDwagon 

I won´t judge your reason to be/run Ghost clan... 

But If you think resource multiplication - according to clan tier -  for research cost is OK, then you will agree to do similar scale in research time: 1 day for STORM = 10days for GHOST, right?

 

Warframe ninjas free to play,

is more then that, it became to be huge game, with a lot of: - options, - styles how to finish missions, - setups, - cosmetics...

Any clan can be super active, super organize top event killer or just super chillout, you are free to play in your way.

Stop give free tips or any jugments how other should / run their clans ...

 

 THE CLAN MANAGMET  IS NOT  PROBLEM of HEMA´S  RESEARCH TIME. THE PROBLEM IS THE SYSTEM FAILURE

simply read what ---RV---Maniac wrote, processes it and hopely you will understand why

 

I personally dont care to have HEMA at first moment to came out or 1month later, but I will not shut up when I clearly see the reason of this mess

[KIREEK]

That i agree, a resource count to see who is giving and who isn't.

[SolarDwagon]

1 hour ago, -VV-ODiN said:

@KIREEK

If you dont see advantage of self regulation system, then there is not point to carry on with conversation...

I repeat just only for you:

We know perfectly how keep clan alive: kick long AFKs and recruit new members... you dont need high school managment education for it

We help, carry or taxi active clanmates to alerts, missions, farm, xp farm, sortie, LoRs... but we simply cannt farm missing quotas

there is no tool how to monitore contributions, so what you propose 24h guards by lab? to keep track who and how much gave...

 

@SolarDwagon 

I won´t judge your reason to be/run Ghost clan... 

But If you think resource multiplication - according to clan tier -  for research cost is OK, then you will agree to do similar scale in research time: 1 day for STORM = 10days for GHOST, right?

 

Warframe ninjas free to play,

is more then that, it became to be huge game, with a lot of: - options, - styles how to finish missions, - setups, - cosmetics...

Any clan can be super active, super organize top event killer or just super chillout, you are free to play in your way.

Stop give free tips or any jugments how other should / run their clans ...

 

 THE CLAN MANAGMET  IS NOT  PROBLEM of HEMA´S  RESEARCH TIME. THE PROBLEM IS THE SYSTEM FAILURE

simply read what ---RV---Maniac wrote, processes it and hopely you will understand why

 

I personally dont care to have HEMA at first moment to came out or 1month later, but I will not shut up when I clearly see the reason of this mess

Correction, you won't shut up despite people repeatedly pointing out the flaws of your ideas.
The one idea that has significant support is being able to see who contributed what, which has been supported by people in almost every tier.
The rest of your ideas are terrible for reasons that have been discussed over and over.

[-VV-ODiN]

@SolarDwagon

The only terrible idea here is - if you think you are The only one who is right.

There are diferente points of view, I respect yours. You should do the same for me. 

To be honest I begin to be tired of the same people who are interested only in "pointing out the flaws to ideas".

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by -VV-ODiN

[Stoner]

I wish DE gave us more control in clans not just kick, recruit and promote/demote players. I REALLY hope clans are at DE's top list, it's been overlooked for too long.