Oberon Rework ideas and discussion

[KrypTic.]

*Note*
With my previous forum messages being constantly deleted for no reason, this will be 5th time I am writing this post.. apologies if it is a little messy.

Considering Oberon Prime will soon be on the way (70 ish days), I am finally after many months of putting this off, written all the changes I believe Oberon should receive to fill the roll he's intended for. 



Link to my full suggested changes are here in a presentation format: 
(will attempt to re-write them here for ease of access later..)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qgwlqlm8orqbvic/Oberon_Rework.pdf?dl=0

Basic summary for all those who don't wish to download the pdf file:
(Though I would strongly advise to)


Oberon Rework:
Passive: 1.
Oberon and his allies deal bonus damage to irradiated targets. [50%]
2. Oberon’s Second passive a multithread passive that is activated by renewal. If oberon is to be downed or killed near or next to an ally while renewal is active, oberon will transfer life energy to heal the downed ally into a fighting state with 50% HP. - Range 15m

1: Smite
Oberon’s first ability will remain mostly the same except for one attribute, the damage that the ability deals is 10% of the targets total EHP. (effective heal points) (Scales like energy vampire) *note* only deals 10% total ehp to the innate target, none of the addition projectiles that are created will deal the scalable dmg.

2: Renewal
Oberon’s second ability hollow ground will be completely replaced by his existing third ability ‘Renewal’. Renewal 2.0 will now have a 50% faster cast time of the original to avoid overly annoying situations, in addition the cast travel time will now be reduced to 1 second, regardless of range (scales with range) Whether the target is 20m or away or 50m away, it will only take 1 second to reach their destination.
Big change: Renewal is now a channelling ability:
- As soon as the heal is received by allies energy per second will be consumed.
- Energy will be consumed for every ally that is being healed, 4x max.
- Energy is only consumed when allies or oberon himself are regenerating health, not every second that the ability is active.
- Base energy consumption 5.

Stats:
Innate heal is now 100 - 25/50/75/100
Heal per second 5/10/15/20
Base energy 5 per second
Range 50m base

3: Reckoning
Reckoning just as renewal will be moved down his ability listings as its not strong of an ability to be a consideration for his 4th without drastically changing the ability. Changes: - Ability will now only consume 75 energy, from 100. - Base Damage will now be 800, from 1250 (64% of it’s original base damage, compensation for the ability moving down a slot, in addition to the other changes that will be labelled) - Reckoning’s blind range is now 50% of the total range of the ability, scales with range. (the old and current range of reckoning is 15m, the blind will be total distance of 7.5m base, was 4m) - Blind duration has been increased to 5 seconds. (was 4m) - Ability now deals 50% bonus damage to irradiated targets. (This ability will stack with his passive for a total of 100% bonus damage, making reckoning deal a total of 1600 base damage)

4: Hollowed guardian Oberon's new ability will be that of a true paladin. Oberon will summon a sword and shield to help him in combat. The main goal of the new exalted weapon isn't to deal damage as much as it is to negate it and build team buffs. Hollowed guardian will have a unique combo stacking system in addition to its own uniques stance. (uses movement as the base to the stance)

Hollowed armour:
when using hollowed guardian Oberon will have the ability to block 35/45/55/65% of incoming damage while right clicking, (effected by power strength, capped at 90%) as he blocks incoming damage he will be building what is know as a hollowed armour stack, these armour stacks are an increase % of the amount of damage that you've blocked to be transferred into bonus armour for your allies and yourself in a AOE (armour will be capped at 300)

Hollowed regeneration:
Hollowed regeneration will work in correspondence with hollowed armour. As Oberon builds a unique combo multiplier he will be able to temporarily boost the effectiveness of his renewal ability. (Builds combo only from the stances shield bashes, not from sword strikes. One hit = 1.5x, Three hits = 2x, Five hits = 3x, resulting in a dramatic increase in heals, 100 innate to 300 and 20 regeneration to 60)

Hollowed combination:
The stance that will be unique to Oberon's Hollowed guardian ability. Building Hollowed combo will function similarly to Rhino charge/Landslide with a longer duration. - Slide attacks are slower (by 20%) but have a 100% to knock down enemies and open enemies up to ground finishers. - Bullet jumps will create a long distance shield charge. - Holding the melee button will charge Oberon for a lethal hit (lethal hit grants 3x dmg multiplier - 2 second charge time) - Standard stacks will be performed by the short sword Oberon wields in his right hand. (Takes the base damage of your currently equipped melee and can not be increased in strength) After four melee attacks Oberon will perform a small lunge forward. e.g 'E, E, E, E' Stats:

- Hollowed guardian deals 350 base damage while his shield will take melee mods to add bonus attributes, his sword will not:
- IPS will be: 75% Impact, 25% puncture, 0 Slash.
- Critical chance: 20%
- Critical damage: 3.5x
- Status chance: 15%
- Channeling damage: 1.5x
- Attack speed: 0.85
- Range: 5m
 - Hollowed Guardians attributes:
- Hollowed armour stacks will transfer 0/15/20/25% of incoming damage into armour. (affected by power strength) - Hollowed armour's stack amount cap is 300 base. (affected by power strength)
- Hollowed regeneration 15/25/35/50% added regeneration. (affected by power strength)

OVERVIEW
Overall i believe that the addition of these changes will create the intended playstyle that Oberon needs in order to become the team based support damage dealer that was initially intended for him.

All work is produced by: Alias Saska’ (aka KrypTic. for Warframe alias purposes.)
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/LegionofTalon/

Thank you for reading, if you feel as if anything that was noted should be changed or altered please leave a comment down in the description, every piece of feedback would be greatly appreciated. :D 

*Also excuse any heated arguments in the comments below*

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by KrypTic.
fixed typos/banter

[Air-mage]

new 4 doesn't suits him (neither does too much the current one, but at least its fun)

[X7SageNinjaQ]

 

On 3/28/2017 at 4:31 PM, KrypTic. said:

*Note*
With my previous forum messages being constantly deleted for no reason, this will be 5th time I am writing this post.. apologies if it is a little messy.

Considering Oberon Prime will soon be on the way (70 ish days), I am finally after many months of putting this off, written all the changes I believe Oberon should receive to fill the roll he's intended for. 



Link to my full suggested changes are here in a presentation format: 
(will attempt to re-write them here for ease of access later..)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qgwlqlm8orqbvic/Oberon_Rework.pdf?dl=0

Basic summary for all those who don't wish to download the pdf file:
(Though I would strongly advise to)


Oberon Rework:
Passive: 1.
Oberon and his allies deal bonus damage to irradiated targets. [50%]
2. Oberon’s Second passive a multithread passive that is activated by renewal. If oberon is to be downed or killed near or next to an ally while renewal is active, oberon will transfer life energy to heal the downed ally into a fighting state with 50% HP. - Range 15m

1: Smite
Oberon’s first ability will remain mostly the same except for one attribute, the damage that the ability deals is 15% of the targets total EHP. (effective heal points) (Scales like energy vampire)

2: Renewal
Oberon’s second ability hollow ground will be completely replaced by his existing third ability ‘Renewal’. Renewal 2.0 will now have a 50% faster cast time of the original to avoid overly annoying situations, in addition the cast travel time will now be reduced to 1 second, regardless of range (scales with range) Whether the target is 20m or away or 50m away, it will only take 1 second to reach their destination.
Big change: Renewal is now a channelling ability:
- As soon as the heal is received by allies energy per second will be consumed.
- Energy will be consumed for every ally that is being healed, 4x max.
- Energy is only consumed when allies or oberon himself are regenerating health, not every second that the ability is active.
- Base energy consumption 5.

Stats:
Innate heal is now 100 - 25/50/75/100
Heal per second 5/10/15/20
Base energy 5 per second
Range 50m base

3: Reckoning
Reckoning just as renewal will be moved down his ability listings as its not strong of an ability to be a consideration for his 4th without drastically changing the ability. Changes: - Ability will now only consume 75 energy, from 100. - Base Damage will now be 800, from 1250 (64% of it’s original base damage, compensation for the ability moving down a slot, in addition to the other changes that will be labelled) - Reckoning’s blind range is now 50% of the total range of the ability, scales with range. (the old and current range of reckoning is 15m, the blind will be total distance of 7.5m base, was 4m) - Blind duration has been increased to 5 seconds. (was 4m) - Ability now deals 50% bonus damage to irradiated targets. (This ability will stack with his passive for a total of 100% bonus damage, making reckoning deal a total of 1600 base damage)

4: Hollowed guardian Oberon's new ability will be that of a true paladin. Oberon will summon a sword and shield to help him in combat. The main goal of the new exalted weapon isn't to deal damage as much as it is to negate it and build team buffs. Hollowed guardian will have a unique combo stacking system in addition to its own uniques stance. (uses movement as the base to the stance)

Hollowed armour:
when using hollowed guardian Oberon will have the ability to block 35/45/55/65% of incoming damage while right clicking, (effected by power strength, capped at 90%) as he blocks incoming damage he will be building what is know as a hollowed armour stack, these armour stacks are an increase % of the amount of damage that you've blocked to be transferred into bonus armour for your allies and yourself in a AOE (armour will be capped at 300)

Hollowed regeneration:
Hollowed regeneration will work in correspondence with hollowed armour. As Oberon builds a unique combo multiplier he will be able to temporarily boost the effectiveness of his renewal ability. (Builds combo only from the stances shield bashes, not from sword strikes. One hit = 1.5x, Three hits = 2x, Five hits = 3x, resulting in a dramatic increase in heals, 100 innate to 300 and 20 regeneration to 60)

Hollowed combination:
The stance that will be unique to Oberon's Hollowed guardian ability. Building Hollowed combo will function similarly to Rhino charge/Landslide with a longer duration. - Slide attacks are slower (by 20%) but have a 100% to knock down enemies and open enemies up to ground finishers. - Bullet jumps will create a long distance shield charge. - Holding the melee button will charge Oberon for a lethal hit (lethal hit grants 3x dmg multiplier - 2 second charge time) - Standard stacks will be performed by the short sword Oberon wields in his right hand. (Takes the base damage of your currently equipped melee and can not be increased in strength) After four melee attacks Oberon will perform a small lunge forward. e.g 'E, E, E, E' Stats:

- Hollowed guardian deals 350 base damage while his shield will take melee mods to add bonus attributes, his sword will not:
- IPS will be: 75% Impact, 25% puncture, 0 Slash.
- Critical chance: 20%
- Critical damage: 3.5x
- Status chance: 15%
- Channelling damage: 1.5x
- Attack speed: 0.85
- Range: 5m
 - Hollowed Guardians attributes:
- Hollowed armour stacks will transfer 0/15/20/25% of incoming damage into armour. (affected by power strength) - Hollowed armour's stack amount cap is 300 base. (affected by power strength)
- Hollowed regeneration 15/25/35/50% added regeneration. (affected by power strength)

OVERVIEW
Overall i believe that the addition of these changes will create the intended playstyle that Oberon needs in order to become the team based support damage dealer that was initially intended for him.

All work is produced by: Alias Saska’ (aka KrypTic. for Warframe alias purposes.)
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/LegionofTalon/

Thank you for reading, if you feel as if anything that was noted should be changed or altered please leave a comment down in the description, every piece of feedback would be greatly appreciated. :D 

 

what do u think about my changes but it mostly for damage and support

 

passive : holy power every time oberon kills enemy with his exalted weapon he purify him and store his energy as holy power which use to enchant his ability also oberon increase damage of companions kubrows and kavat only

First ability  Smite: release a frontal wave  that deal heavy damage  enchanted with holy power : it will deal heavier damage and apply radiation status

second ability  divine shield : create ashield around him that absord damage and make him immune to status effects same like nezha enchanted with holy power: shield will be more stronger and when depleted it will deal damage and knock down enemy

third ability   holy aura : for a certain duration  create  aura  that will enchant all auras equiped by oberon or allies  enchanted with holy power aura will also heal allies 

fourth ability   paladin wrath : oberon release his divine weapons a shield and a sword  and concecration ground around oberon in a circle shape that will move with him dealing aoe damage every time he deal damage with his weapons any enemy kill with paladin wrath willl be purified and create holy power he can have up to 3 holy power that can be consumed by his abilites

[Buddhakingpen]

Kinda burnt out on everyone wanting an exalted form on every frame

Oberon is fine, just a few tweaks and he can scale as well as anyone else. Put your first passive on his hallowed ground, but also add "defense against irradiated targets" boom. He'll have radiation, puncture, knockdown, heals, a damage buff and damage mitigation.  He doesnt need all these changes people keep suggesting. 

and 15% hp damage on his 1 is WAAAAAAY too much. You know how abusable that would be? Esp since targets are either knocked down or staggered, or attacking each other when they're hit by it? You could mod for straight efficiency, cast speed and do nothing but spam 1 and you could scale infinitely with just that move. 

Oberon can already beat up low-mid level enemies easily with just his damage, and his cc is still useful in high level missions. What you're suggesting would break him. And i say this as primarily a Mot endurance player. 

[KrypTic.]

On 4/3/2017 at 5:05 AM, Buddhakingpen said:

Kinda burnt out on everyone wanting an exalted form on every frame

Oberon is fine, just a few tweaks and he can scale as well as anyone else. Put your first passive on his hallowed ground, but also add "defense against irradiated targets" boom. He'll have radiation, puncture, knockdown, heals, a damage buff and damage mitigation.  He doesnt need all these changes people keep suggesting. 

and 15% hp damage on his 1 is WAAAAAAY too much. You know how abusable that would be? Esp since targets are either knocked down or staggered, or attacking each other when they're hit by it? You could mod for straight efficiency, cast speed and do nothing but spam 1 and you could scale infinitely with just that move. 

Oberon can already beat up low-mid level enemies easily with just his damage, and his cc is still useful in high level missions. What you're suggesting would break him. And i say this as primarily a Mot endurance player. 

4

Apologies 15% is a typo. also the actual 10% ehp only directs itself against the innate target, not the additional projectiles.
(if the PDF version was viewed this mistake could have been avoided)

1. Burnt of on criticisms sounds... oddly.. lacking and unuseful.
Considering I really don't want an exalted weapon on every frame this is a stereotypical response. But in terms of what D.E set them selfs up for in creating a Paladin/Druid, i think it would be a catastrophic misinterpretation not to give him an exalted shield of sorts.

2. Trinity is currently '6.25% of its remaining health as Finishing damage.' She is a support frame and she's still able to deal insane amounts of dmg. Oberons changes are to make him relevant, not OP.
*side note*
Finisher ability exists in most frames, yet no one utilises them and they'll essentially kill most things in one hit all the way to lvl 300.
*Side side note*
With the changes I've suggested, he's still be shunned compared to Mesa, Excal, Equinox, Banshee, Nova and many others. because he's not a direct dps.
*side side side note*
congratulation you can build for efficiency and spam to your heart's content, but you're not scaling infinitely... it's 10% (15%) so what you're meant to say is that it can scale the '%' of the targets EHP, infinitely is a mathematical implausibility in the game..  if we had infinite scaling. well, armor wouldn't be as much of an issue.

3. "Oberon can already beat up low-mid level enemies easily with just his damage, and his cc is still useful in high-level missions. What you're suggesting would break him. And i say this as primarily a Mot endurance player."


Take the current situation with Limbo, for ages people wanted a re-work, something to give Limbo a shift into the meta and outside it too. Now we have exactly that and people are asking for nerfs because he's "too good". Similar thing happened to Nidus, the perfectly balanced frame came out, people called the OP OP button on him, not even understanding the frame, The reason he appeared so strong is because we have so many weak frames..

In addition, i am also an endless runner, sticking around to when enemies are not so pleasant to be around, so simply stating that because you do "higher-end content" isn't really as much of an innate piece of backing as one might think.

A frame shouldn't just be okay, every frame should be fantastic. however, due to people's perception of OP, the game will never have its perfect state.
These changes will not 'break' Oberon, they'll make him relevant and useful. but maybe that's not what people want in this game. :/

[KrypTic.]

On 4/2/2017 at 8:32 AM, XinNinjaQ said:

 

what do u think about my changes but it mostly for damage and support

 

passive : holy power every time oberon kills enemy with his exalted weapon he purify him and store his energy as holy power which use to enchant his ability also oberon increase damage of companions kubrows and kavat only

First ability  Smite: release a frontal wave  that deal heavy damage  enchanted with holy power : it will deal heavier damage and apply radiation status

second ability  divine shield : create ashield around him that absord damage and make him immune to status effects same like nezha enchanted with holy power: shield will be more stronger and when depleted it will deal damage and knock down enemy

third ability   holy aura : for a certain duration  create  aura  that will enchant all auras equiped by oberon or allies  enchanted with holy power aura will also heal allies 

fourth ability   paladin wrath : oberon release his divine weapons a shield and a sword  and concecration ground around oberon in a circle shape that will move with him dealing aoe damage every time he deal damage with his weapons any enemy kill with paladin wrath willl be purified and create holy power he can have up to 3 holy power that can be consumed by his abilites

 

I don't actually mind some of the ideas within the changes purely because they're either original or work with his role.

1. from what it sounds like, would basically be ice-wave except a hollowed wave.
2. Unfortunate too much alike of other warframe abilites, and I dislike overlap and overall think it's bad the more frame which has it.
3. this idea is quite intriguing, my only concern is that 1/2 the ability is effectively going off other people, not your own decision, don't get me wrong, in a well-structured environment this could wield quite effective, however, because warframe as much of a team game that it's meant to be, simply falls short. resulting in the heal being the only consistently useful thing. nice idea though. 
4. I'm not actually too sure on what you mean. maybe clarify a bit more, look into other warframe abilities and base some stats off that. :)

My biggest suggestion is to investigate what makes a warframe good, why it's good and how's it's relevant and useful.
After doing so look into previous re-works and see what changes made an average frame into a brilliant frame! (excal re-work back in update 15/16 i think is a good place to start.)
 

[KrypTic.]

On 4/2/2017 at 2:27 AM, Air-mage said:

new 4 doesn't suits him (neither does too much the current one, but at least its fun)

Does one not know what a paladin/Druid is? o_O
If I'm not mistaken they're famous for carrying either a shield with either a hammer/sword/tome. (large book)
 

[Evanescent]

Except for the ultimate concept I like what you have going on here. I do want to see more 'nature' themes put in though. Don't forget the druid mixed in with his paladin.

[KrypTic.]

3 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

Except for the ultimate concept I like what you have going on here. I do want to see more 'nature' themes put in though. Don't forget the druid mixed in with his paladin.

 

 

dw, we can just keep his old passive. ;)



I will look into his 'druid' traits further, as i too, believe it's an undersold point of who he is as a warframe. :D

Edited April 6, 2017 by KrypTic.
6 year old grammar

[Evanescent]

1 minute ago, KrypTic. said:

dw, we can just keep his old passive. ;)



I will look further into his 'druid' traits further, as i too, believe it's an undersold point of who he is as a warframe. :D

His old passive is crap. Where is he from, a circus?

 

[KrypTic.]

Just now, Evanescent said:

His old passive is crap. Where is he from, a circus?

 

 

Essentially haha!.. unfortunately, we have no lions to tame in warframe... shame..
His current passive atm is complete grabage, I concur. 

[X7SageNinjaQ]

9 hours ago, KrypTic. said:

I don't actually mind some of the ideas within the changes purely because they're either original or work with his role.

1. from what it sounds like, would basically be ice-wave except a hollowed wave.
2. Unfortunate too much alike of other warframe abilites, and I dislike overlap and overall think it's bad the more frame which has it.
3. this idea is quite intriguing, my only concern is that 1/2 the ability is effectively going off other people, not your own decision, don't get me wrong, in a well-structured environment this could wield quite effective, however, because warframe as much of a team game that it's meant to be, simply falls short. resulting in the heal being the only consistently useful thing. nice idea though. 
4. I'm not actually too sure on what you mean. maybe clarify a bit more, look into other warframe abilities and base some stats off that. :)

My biggest suggestion is to investigate what makes a warframe good, why it's good and how's it's relevant and useful.
After doing so look into previous re-works and see what changes made an average frame into a brilliant frame! (excal re-work back in update 15/16 i think is a good place to start.)
 

his fourthability is exalted sword and shield like yours but has this paladin consecration which is ability taken from world of warcraft paladin if u play it before and enemy dies from his fourth we be purified and collect 3 stacks of holy powers which will enchant his other ability

his three will also enchant his aura too 

 

[Evanescent]

To elaborate on why I think his suggested 4 doesn't work, it's forced. I don't think he would do well with, or needs an exalted weapon ultimate. I once had a suggestion that went something like this:

His ultimate acts like a channeled ability, When he gets kills when it is active, the bodies burst into bloom with flowers that heal and buff ally damage in an area around them. The thing is, a set number of flowers can bloom on a single body, but beside your energy there is no limit to how many bodies you can make them bloom on. So if you're good at killing you'll be able to set up zones where you get dense healing and damage buffs.

Additionally, in their AoE, abilities become more effective. They take less energy and function more strongly.

This will let you synergise nicely with his other abilities.

[KrypTic.]

4 minutes ago, XinNinjaQ said:

his fourthability is exalted sword and shield like yours but has this paladin consecration which is ability taken from world of warcraft paladin if u play it before and enemy dies from his fourth we be purified and collect 3 stacks of holy powers which will enchant his other ability

his three will also enchant his aura too 

 

 

ahh okay, not a WOW player so this was a little misleading. thanks for clarifying! :)

[KrypTic.]

4 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

To elaborate on why I think his suggested 4 doesn't work, it's forced. I don't think he would do well with, or needs an exalted weapon ultimate. I once had a suggestion that went something like this:

His ultimate acts like a channeled ability, When he gets kills when it is active, the bodies burst into bloom with flowers that heal and buff ally damage in an area around them. The thing is, a set number of flowers can bloom on a single body, but beside your energy there is no limit to how many bodies you can make them bloom on. So if you're good at killing you'll be able to set up zones where you get dense healing and damage buffs.

Additionally, in their AoE, abilities become more effective. They take less energy and function more strongly.

This will let you synergise nicely with his other abilities.

 

I really like the sounds of this!!!

Another user just suggested casting tree's to the area, think i may use these ideas to make an alternative 4th ability for people against an 'exalted weapon fix'

Rough ideas:
- channeling ability 
- Creates an AoE area around Oberon to which when enemies are killed within it, their corpses will decay and begin to grow roots out of them.
- roots will slowly latch onto other passing enemies (much like Inaros 4th) expanding outwards as time progresses (capped range/duration)
  (root ends turns into blossoming flowers when the range has been fully met by each affected enemy.)
- roots will grant dmg resistance to nearby allies
- roots will also provide and an additional boost in regenerative healing when affected by 'Renewal'
- dmg buff may also prove interesting!

S#&$... this ability is basically Inaros's 4th.. :| also said roots a lot..... like wayyy to much.. T-T

[Buddhakingpen]

15 hours ago, KrypTic. said:

Apologies 15% is a typo. also the actual 10% ehp only directs itself against the innate target, not the additional projectiles.
(if the PDF version was viewed this mistake could have been avoided)

1. Burnt of on criticisms sounds... oddly.. lacking and unuseful.
Considering I really don't want an exalted weapon on every frame this is a stereotypical response. But in terms of what D.E set them selfs up for in creating a Paladin/Druid, i think it would be a catastrophic misinterpretation not to give him an exalted shield of sorts.

2. Trinity is currently '6.25% of its remaining health as Finishing damage.' She is a support frame and she's still able to deal insane amounts of dmg. Oberons changes are to make him relevant, not OP.
*side note*
Finisher ability exists in most frames, yet no one utilises them and they'll essentially kill most things in one hit all the way to lvl 300.
*Side side note*
With the changes I've suggested, he's still be shunned compared to Mesa, Excal, Equinox, Banshee, Nova and many others. because he's not a direct dps.
*side side side note*
congratulation you can build for efficiency and spam to your heart's content, but you're not scaling infinitely... it's 10% (15%) so what you're meant to say is that it can scale the '%' of the targets EHP, infinitely is a mathematical implausibility in the game..  if we had infinite scaling. well, armor wouldn't be as much of an issue.

3. "Oberon can already beat up low-mid level enemies easily with just his damage, and his cc is still useful in high-level missions. What you're suggesting would break him. And i say this as primarily a Mot endurance player."


Take the current situation with Limbo, for ages people wanted a re-work, something to give Limbo a shift into the meta and outside it too. Now we have exactly that and people are asking for nerfs because he's "too good". Similar thing happened to Nidus, the perfectly balanced frame came out, people called the OP OP button on him, not even understanding the frame, The reason he appeared so strong is because we have so many weak frames..

In addition, i am also an endless runner, sticking around to when enemies are not so pleasant to be around, so simply stating that because you do "higher-end content" isn't really as much of an innate piece of backing as one might think.

A frame shouldn't just be okay, every frame should be fantastic. however, due to people's perception of OP, the game will never have its perfect state.
These changes will not 'break' Oberon, they'll make him relevant and useful. but maybe that's not what people want in this game. :/

You're logic is very nimbly leaping between my personal opinions, your own personal opinions, and general consensus.  That some fantastic mental gymnastics right there. 

First point, Never said i'm burnt out on criticism... wut?  Since when does "exalted weapons on every frame" ="criticism"? ...making a statement doesnt have to be "useful" just re read what you yourself said. You've made plenty of off the cuff statements in your response that could have been nixed. Its ok to have an opinion. I understand you probably felt attacked in my wording, so ad hominem retorts probably felt natural, but as someone positioning themselves as an intellectual, its self defeating.  Just ignore the statements you feel serve no purpose, because doing the same thing in your own response makes you look like a hypocrite thats reaching for a comeback, while actively attacking himself. And DE never said anything about him being a paladin. Before they first released him he was codenamed "paladinframe" because he was the first frame to have both team heals and damage powers. Everything after that is just community head-cannon. Oberons doesnt really have a theme, and thats ok. 

Second point, EV costs twice as much as smite, is a single target stun that cant be recast until its duration is over, if modded for, kills the rest of her kit outside of burst heals, provides no other cc, isnt one handed and cant be cast in the air, and you're talking about them as if they could be comparable skills. Add the fact ev is CURRENT hp, whereas you're talking about TOTAL hp. Thats a very large difference.  Smite is already one of the best first skills in the game, you're talking about giving is endlessly scaling damage on top of it. And the last part about you reaching to find the rhetorical difference between infinite scaling and "scaling for as long as you play" ... yeah no comment. I'm sure you're aware of how dumb that looked when you typed it and just didnt feel like deleting it.  

And what do you mean most frames have finisher ability? The ability to do finishers and finisher damage actually do have tangible differences outside of verbiage. And most frames do NOT have finisher damage. And only 11 can open up enemies to finishers with powers. Thats not most. Some king of unnecessary technicalities you turned out to be. 

Third point-  I honestly dont see what the communities perception of limbo has to do with anything here, but i'll address it anyway. He IS op. That much is known. In what game is it normal to be invincible, have full room clear, and the cc to make sure it happens? And if you defend that, at what point is something NOT balanced? I mean, with that logic, you should literally make every frame untouchable and able to kill every fodder enemy in one hit. Its fine if you like him, but dont confuse enjoying something with it being balanced, or the rest of the game being underpowered. In literally no other game could you achieve what he does without cheat codes. And until this rework, you couldnt do it in this game either. Hell, even with wukong, he doesnt get cc, and has to actively hit each individual enemy, which balances out his invincibility a bit more. 

I guess I am in the camp that every frame should be "just ok" and not fantastic, because its a team game. If you have every frame running around, completely impervious to damage, able to kill every enemy with the press of one button... what would be the point of playing the game? And how could you build attractive content around that? Frames need more weaknesses than the single frame it would take to dash back into god mode. 

[KrypTic.]

29 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

You're logic is very nimbly leaping between my personal opinions, your own personal opinions, and general consensus.  That some fantastic mental gymnastics right there. 

First point, Never said i'm burnt out on criticism... wut?  Since when does "exalted weapons on every frame" ="criticism"? ...making a statement doesnt have to be "useful" just re read what you yourself said. You've made plenty of off the cuff statements in your response that could have been nixed. Its ok to have an opinion. I understand you probably felt attacked in my wording, so ad hominem retorts probably felt natural, but as someone positioning themselves as an intellectual, its self defeating.  Just ignore the statements you feel serve no purpose, because doing the same thing in your own response makes you look like a hypocrite thats reaching for a comeback, while actively attacking himself. And DE never said anything about him being a paladin. Before they first released him he was codenamed "paladinframe" because he was the first frame to have both team heals and damage powers. Everything after that is just community head-cannon. Oberons doesnt really have a theme, and thats ok. 

Second point, EV costs twice as much as smite, is a single target stun that cant be recast until its duration is over, if modded for, kills the rest of her kit outside of burst heals, provides no other cc, isnt one handed and cant be cast in the air, and you're talking about them as if they could be comparable skills. Add the fact ev is CURRENT hp, whereas you're talking about TOTAL hp. Thats a very large difference.  Smite is already one of the best first skills in the game, you're talking about giving is endlessly scaling damage on top of it. And the last part about you reaching to find the rhetorical difference between infinite scaling and "scaling for as long as you play" ... yeah no comment. I'm sure you're aware of how dumb that looked when you typed it and just didnt feel like deleting it.  

And what do you mean most frames have finisher ability? The ability to do finishers and finisher damage actually do have tangible differences outside of verbiage. And most frames do NOT have finisher damage. And only 11 can open up enemies to finishers with powers. Thats not most. Some king of unnecessary technicalities you turned out to be. 

Third point-  I honestly dont see what the communities perception of limbo has to do with anything here, but I'll address it anyway. He IS op. That much is known. In what game is it normal to be invincible, have full room clear, and the cc to make sure it happens? And if you defend that, at what point is something NOT balanced? I mean, with that logic, you should literally make every frame untouchable and able to kill every fodder enemy in one hit. Its fine if you like him, but dont confuse enjoying something with it being balanced, or the rest of the game being underpowered. In literally no other game could you achieve what he does without cheat codes. And until this rework, you couldnt do it in this game either. Hell, even with wukong, he doesnt get cc, and has to actively hit each individual enemy, which balances out his invincibility a bit more. 

I guess I am in the camp that every frame should be "just ok" and not fantastic, because its a team game. If you have every frame running around, completely impervious to damage, able to kill every enemy with the press of one button... what would be the point of playing the game? And how could you build attractive content around that? Frames need more weaknesses than the single frame it would take to dash back into god mode. 

37

- Generally confused whether this is meant to add to the discussion or attack me, either way, i was responding to your initial statement. 
So.... iIl presume that was taken the wrong way..

- "And only 11 can open up enemies to finishers with powers. That's not most. Some king of unnecessary technicalities you turned out to be. "
Sincere apologies that I incorrectly labeled the amount. despite this, responding in the fashion that you did is unnecessary for something that's not about you or I. This Forum is for discussing Suggestions for a Warframes re-work, not cutting each other's throats...

- Yes, Smite is a good ability, and yes making it total hp would be overkill I agree on that. (overlooking on my part) If you have a clear cut suggestion just calmly give one. :)

- Addressing Limbos current state is a tricky one, though I also agree he's very very strong right now. I merely stated the perpetual flow of what Warframe changes are like these days and how silly it all really is. (Asks for change, suggested changes are labeled and received well, receives change, angry player base, nerf. The issue is both within the community and DE.) 

- The changes to Oberon won't make him impervious to damage.. not sure if that was just in reference to previously discussing Limbo? The changes I've suggested are primarily aimed to give his kit cohesion. If alterations to the damage need to take place, state it. (As you have already done..)
Making a frame fantastic doesn't have to mean that they can take complete control of the battle field, I guess that phrasing is just open to interpretation. Never the less, making a frame fantastic in my vision to make them fun to play, have their own unique part and role within the game, in addition towards offering something else that nothing else does. I do not wish any frame to be impervious to damage. I want to make that very clear.

 

[Buddhakingpen]

1 hour ago, KrypTic. said:

- Generally confused whether this is meant to add to the discussion or attack me, either way, i was responding to your initial statement. 
So.... iIl presume that was taken the wrong way..

- "And only 11 can open up enemies to finishers with powers. That's not most. Some king of unnecessary technicalities you turned out to be. "
Sincere apologies that I incorrectly labeled the amount. despite this, responding in the fashion that you did is unnecessary for something that's not about you or I. This Forum is for discussing Suggestions for a Warframes re-work, not cutting each other's throats...

- Yes, Smite is a good ability, and yes making it total hp would be overkill I agree on that. (overlooking on my part) If you have a clear cut suggestion just calmly give one. :)

- Addressing Limbos current state is a tricky one, though I also agree he's very very strong right now. I merely stated the perpetual flow of what Warframe changes are like these days and how silly it all really is. (Asks for change, suggested changes are labeled and received well, receives change, angry player base, nerf. The issue is both within the community and DE.) 

- The changes to Oberon won't make him impervious to damage.. not sure if that was just in reference to previously discussing Limbo? The changes I've suggested are primarily aimed to give his kit cohesion. If alterations to the damage need to take place, state it. (As you have already done..)
Making a frame fantastic doesn't have to mean that they can take complete control of the battle field, I guess that phrasing is just open to interpretation. Never the less, making a frame fantastic in my vision to make them fun to play, have their own unique part and role within the game, in addition towards offering something else that nothing else does. I do not wish any frame to be impervious to damage. I want to make that very clear.

 

 

This is all i could think of when i read this. 

 

I put my suggestion for oberon in the same post you initially came at.  You just seemed to ignore that part for some reason and only addressed the criticism. Change nothing except turning hallowed grounds armor buff into a percentage damage increase to, and damage reduction from irradiated enemies. That would tie his kit together, give him scaling that a whole team could appreciate and play around, and be less work on the devs instead of a new kit with new animations. 

[KrypTic.]

It's called mutual respect and resolution of conflict. Considering how you generally respond to people on all socials, I'd advise improving upon set social interactions.

Despite my initial comment which was more out of anger towards the communities lack in perception and generalisation in subject manner, the criticism was aimed at fixing my own mistakes and clarifying on them... not insulting you.

Cheer up man, stop taking everything as a personal attack and focus on the real goal of making the game great. :)
 

[Buddhakingpen]

13 minutes ago, KrypTic. said:

It's called mutual respect and resolution of conflict. Considering how you generally respond to people on all socials, I'd advise improving upon set social interactions.

Despite my initial comment which was more out of anger towards the communities lack in perception and generalisation in subject manner, the criticism was aimed at fixing my own mistakes and clarifying on them... not insulting you.

Cheer up man, stop taking everything as a personal attack and focus on the real goal of making the game great. :)
 

Lol i saw you viewed my history. And i only get into people that cant take being disagreed with. And lo and behold, the moment i disagreed with you, you got snarky instantly.  If you really looked through my old comments, you'll see that if someone brings valid points, or just states that they dont agree with me, i'm chill, its a regular conversation.  Its when you blatantly attack that you get the essays. 

Best way to avoid conflict is to not start one in the first place. All i said was that i didnt like your rework, and that i see everyone suggesting every frame get an exalted form, and find it boring. If you didnt like what i said, being the peaceful man you are, not responding was entirely an option for you. 

[KrypTic.]

25 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

Lol i saw you viewed my history. And i only get into people that cant take being disagreed with. And lo and behold, the moment i disagreed with you, you got snarky instantly.  If you really looked through my old comments, you'll see that if someone brings valid points, or just states that they dont agree with me, i'm chill, its a regular conversation.  Its when you blatantly attack that you get the essays. 

Best way to avoid conflict is to not start one in the first place. All i said was that i didnt like your rework, and that i see everyone suggesting every frame get an exalted form, and find it boring. If you didnt like what i said, being the peaceful man you are, not responding was entirely an option for you. 

 

 

The reason I looked through your Warframe profile was to look at your view points on Hydroid conversations.. and I mostly agree with them, but I guess I'll just get the tainted response anyway.. :/
 

Edited April 7, 2017 by KrypTic.
Because i'm an idiot. :)

[Buddhakingpen]

3 minutes ago, KrypTic. said:

The reason I looked through your Warframe profile was to look at your view points on Hydroid conversations.. and I mostly agree with them, but I guess I'll just get the tainted response anyway.. :/
 

see? the last sentence was ENTIRELY unnecessary. And if i jumped down our throat for it you'd say i was the one at fault lol. You push buttons, and then play the victim. Thats a legit skill though, not even being sarcastic, you'll go far in life doing that. I've seen it.