Can we please do something about enemy CC?

[Naftal]

All enemy CC is fully avoidable/blockable through gameplay. Mods help but you don't need them if you know what you're doing.

On top of that we have much more OP CC ourselves. Enemies won't do anything to you, including their CC, when you can disable them much easier and indefinitely if needed.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

1 hour ago, --Q--Voltage said:

nullifier, bombard rocket, knockdown spam.

really diverse

Also: slow tether, flash bang (which depends on if you look at it or not, cause if yes : white screen for you, if not then a mild white overlay)

Edited April 6, 2017 by (PS4)watt4hem
Welp, just those 2. I did say kinda :b

[LycanPT]

4 minutes ago, ComCray said:

Sarcasm aside, this is what I meant exactly. Because what you describe only happens when you let them swarm you. And that, my friend, is all on you. I could list reasons why how and where this happens as much as I can list ways to avoid it. But that is all besides the point.

Yeah... not all of us use aoe weapons as simulors, ignis, etc..., some of us even use snipers, and I use the momevement a lot, but did you knew that there are weapons that actually require you to stand on the ground aiming for 0.5 sec? that's when you get knocked down and pulled and all that amazing stuff.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Several frames have counters to enemy CC, plus we have sancti magistar passive. 

[LycanPT]

4 minutes ago, Naftal said:

All enemy CC is fully avoidable/blockable through gameplay. Mods help but you don't need them if you know what you're doing.

On top of that we have much more OP CC ourselves. Enemies won't do anything to you, including their CC, when you can disable them much easier and indefinitely if needed.

yes because comparing our cc as a players to a NPC unit cc is really the point here, I bet ballistas rage quit when they get frozzen or knocked, this is about gaming experience, we could need more diversity in enemy CC that have different kinds of smart and reasonable counterplay that doesn't involve you pretending the door is lava the whole 1h of survival

Edited April 6, 2017 by LycanPT

[Naftal]

Just now, LycanPT said:

yes because comparing our cc as a players to a NPC unit cc is really the point here, I bet ballistas rage quit when they get frozzen or knocked, this is about gaming experience, we could need more diversity in enemy CC that have different kinds of smart and reasonable counterplay that doesn't involve you pretending the door is flava the whole 1h of survival

Blocking, rolling, ability casting animation locks, a lot of melee attacks (for example spin on all melees) give you immunity. Is that not reasonable?

This is not counting all the abilities that either disable enemies or give you CC immunity themselves.

Just because some players get frustrated about a game, doesn't mean the mechanic is bad. Some people can't play super mario because they can't jump over a pit and rage quit. Doesn't mean they should put bridges over the pits.

[LycanPT]

Just now, Naftal said:

Blocking, rolling, ability casting animation locks, a lot of melee attacks (for example spin on all melees) give you immunity. Is that not reasonable?

This is not counting all the abilities that either disable enemies or give you CC immunity themselves.

Just because some players get frustrated about a game, doesn't mean the mechanic is bad. Some people can't play super mario because they can't jump over a pit and rage quit. Doesn't mean they should put bridges over the pits.

blocking requires you to go melee only, rolling works and I use it, but then again horde game, you can only see as much as your screen lets you, melee attacks with momentum... sigh back to requiring melee and performing a combo that has it. abilities, yeah again forced to use another specific set up... and yet you say the mechanic isn't bad, go figure that out

[Naftal]

1 minute ago, LycanPT said:

blocking requires you to go melee only, rolling works and I use it, but then again horde game, you can only see as much as your screen lets you, melee attacks with momentum... sigh back to requiring melee and performing a combo that has it. abilities, yeah again forced to use another specific set up... and yet you say the mechanic isn't bad, go figure that out

As I said, spin attack works on all melees and you can do it with quick melee.

You are not forced to use a specific setup. You can use any frame and any melee and be able to avoid all CC.

[LycanPT]

2 minutes ago, Naftal said:

As I said, spin attack works on all melees and you can do it with quick melee.

You are not forced to use a specific setup. You can use any frame and any melee and be able to avoid all CC.

sorry to break if for you but not all melee's have momentum

[Naftal]

Just now, LycanPT said:

sorry to break if for you but not all melee's have momentum

Spin attacks do. Meaning slide attacks if it wasn't obvious.

[LycanPT]

4 minutes ago, Naftal said:

Spin attacks do. Meaning slide attacks if it wasn't obvious.

it is depending on the weapon like I said, there are weapons that don't ahve that option

Edited April 6, 2017 by LycanPT

[Naftal]

1 minute ago, LycanPT said:

it is depending on the weapon like I said

What weapons don't have any CC immunity frames during their spin attack?

[LycanPT]

1 minute ago, Naftal said:

What weapons don't have any CC immunity frames during their spin attack?

most of them, you should actually test it yourself, the way it works for avoiding some cc is the fact you get out of the area of knock down more often than blocking the knockdown, easier way to test this is you slide attack into a moa's knockdown area and you'll see what I'm talking about

Edited April 6, 2017 by LycanPT

[Naftal]

Just now, LycanPT said:

most of them, you should actually test it yourself, the way it works for avoiding some cc is the fact you get out of the area of knock down more often than blocking the knockdown

All of them do as far as I know. That's why I'm asking what doesn't. Since you're claiming that most don't then you must be able to name a few melee classes that don't.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Naftal

[LycanPT]

Just now, Naftal said:

All of them do as far as I know. That's why I'm asking what doesn't. Since you're claiming that most don't then you must be able to name a few melee classes that don't.

it is not depending on the class, it is on the weapon itself or combo's I am not actually sure but I think it is the combo

[Naftal]

1 minute ago, LycanPT said:

it is not depending on the class, it is on the weapon itself or combo's I am not actually sure but I think it is the combo

I'm not talking about combos, I'm talking about slide attacks.

Can you name a few weapons themselves then?

[LycanPT]

Just now, Naftal said:

I'm not talking about combos, I'm talking about slide attacks.

Can you name a few weapons themselves then?

pretty sure most whips, and slide attacks vary depending on the stance of the weapon and it is actually one of the "combo" when you press to check the melee combo's

[Naftal]

2 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

pretty sure most whips, and slide attacks vary depending on the stance of the weapon and it is actually one of the "combo" when you press to check the melee combo's

While stances may change the slide attack name, afaik they're still all the same within the same class. At least I don't know any that would change the animation.

I'm pretty sure whips have some animation locked frames in slide attacks.

[ComCray]

28 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

also do you even remember the old movement? Stop saying nonsense and think before you type something,

That little badge on my profile pic sez "yes", so right back at you with the nonsense..

24 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

 some of us even use snipers, [...] there are weapons that actually require you to stand on the ground aiming for 0.5 sec? that's when you get knocked down and pulled and all that amazing stuff.

Oh really? And you're using the sniper where enemies can get at you? Again: then it is your own fault. Snipers are ranged weapons, if you're using them as assault rifles, because your ego told you you could, then it is YOUR problem when you get CCd across the map. Whether or not  we have maps that support sniper game-play is irrelevant at this point. YOU chose the weapon, YOU get to work with it.

"Yes I can see the game being designed for super fast fluid movement with all the map clutter..."

What you see as clutter, I tent to as see extra challenge - again to stop my chain of execution. Learning the tile-sets and how stuff interacts with my frame is part of the game experience. You know where they don't have any of that? Counter Strike. Their maps are SO bland you can see a bullet coming for you two days before it's shot. 

I have to break it to you at this point: I rarely get ccd across the map. When it does happen I saw it coming and have to laugh at my own hubris for thinking I'd get away with [insert silly action here]. And I'm not even the top player in my clan. You should see our clan leader zipping about the level with a mere bow, humilliating the rest of us with his insane killscore. 

And now to turn the table on you a bit: apparently you've been here ever since the introduction of the new movement system and still the infested use you as a beach ball? What have you been doing all this time? Spend all your time on Akkad or something? Now I understand why I find some of these infested laughing their pants off before I obliterate them... Git Gud Bro*!! You're making the rest of us look bad!!!!

 

 

*) and yes, this means you need to zip around the map like a musqito on coke. Want to snipe? Bring a frame that can or GTFO of the swarm.

[ComCray]

But let's try and save this thread and come up with new and interesting enemy CC.. What would you suggest?

How about when you shoot a nullies backpack this releases a massive electric AOE, stunlocking friend AND foe in a 6m radius? Though this has the added bonus of trolling potential for smart snipers and kills stealth it would be an interesting addition IMHO.

Same with shooting those flying grineer's jump-jet. The fuel could explode covering everyone too close in a fire proc.. Omg.. The panic this will cause among the enemy AI.. It will be So Much Fun!!!

[PrVonTuckIII]

4 hours ago, Lancars said:

No matter how fast you move there are times where you get harpooned and dragged. Then you get bumped around a few times by shockwaves only to get harpooned again. You can't keep your guard up and kill things at the same time. The harpoons can home in on you. When i fight infested i already have to move around all the time cause of the chargers melee attack being devastating and the ranged ground attacks the MOA"s can spit on the ground that can chew through you. "Keep moving" isn't a valid argument since you'll be hit anyway by this stuff. Getting road hauled and batted around isn't fun no matter how much you try to avoid it.

And what's the problem? If there was no threat, if we never got CCed, then what's the fun? You can easily avoid all the CC in the game with nothing more than a simple roll. If you were spending less time spamming your 4 button, and more time dodging, perhaps CC would be less of a problem.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

7 hours ago, LycanPT said:

Can we please have more diversity in CC other than being knocked each 10 secs, chain pulled or pulled into knock down? The sad thing about this is that there are so many units with CC and with the same CC that you spend a great majority of the mission not playing at all.

So my suggestion is remove the amount of units with these kind of cc's and add other types of cc like blinding, slowing (just movement), disarming, slow energy drain (and not BS proximity like energy leech eximus, something like an arc of lightning that you can see and shoot back), etc...

I mean so much interesting and better ideas other than just watching you being knocked or dragged in the floor with inaction every 10 seconds. And what is up with the pulls? are they laser guided?

Now many of you just say keep moving, yeah but sometimes I also like to play on the ground and have a more realistic and controlled moved instead of bullet jumping all the time. As for now when I seek that kind of gameplay I have to play with rhino's iron skin or atlas

i heard atlas resist knockdown.when.on ground.

[Volinus7]

@Naftal Stahp!!! I almost ran out of upvotes!!!

 

7 hours ago, LycanPT said:

yes because comparing our cc as a players to a NPC unit cc is really the point here, I bet ballistas rage quit when they get frozzen or knocked, this is about gaming experience, we could need more diversity in enemy CC that have different kinds of smart and reasonable counterplay that doesn't involve you pretending the door is lava the whole 1h of survival

Meh...Everything is lava, Warframe is always a game like that. Anything touches you[at high enough lvl] boom! dead... You touch enemies boom! forever CCed... CL? boom!! OHKO...

Combat timeframe is something that DE never consider, hence there's no "fair" CC.

 

My advice: Prepare for unlimited sh!tstorm and flame war that will pour on your head when you try to ask for something "fair" in this forum. There're loooots of players that are extremely conservative and don't want any changes. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Volinus7

[(PSN)MastrCruu]

Just give us the following... 

MR 30

All Primed frames, maxed

All Primed weapons, maxed

All Primed mods, maxed

Full immunity to all CC effects

 

I'm so tired of people calling for the Nerf-bat. It's OP, now it's UP, NOW IT'S OP AGAIN. F***. . . Just learn to play. It's not hard, know your limits.

[LycanPT]

4 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

And what's the problem? If there was no threat, if we never got CCed, then what's the fun? You can easily avoid all the CC in the game with nothing more than a simple roll. If you were spending less time spamming your 4 button, and more time dodging, perhaps CC would be less of a problem.

funny because when I am spamming 4 most enemies don't even come into 20m range, it is actually when I don't try a cheese strat that I actually understand why those strats are used all the time to go through content... you may prefer to have mouse seizures and bullet jump all the time, thing is you already do all that mindlessly because you don't even need to think to go through content with the bullet jumping+jump+roll+slide all the times, spamming those is being as skilled as pressing 4. You guys almost make this game seem like it requires skill whatsoever and blame on the meta cheesing while you also use other cheesing strats, no go get a bow or a sniper or something that actually requires you to aim, single target, no spray, etc so you get swarmed and you will see, it is funny to have all these possibilities yet everyone gets on the same strats and loadouts everytime they face something a bit harder