Remove Materials/credits From The Platinum Shop.

[Nod_Off]

I'm sorry but someone has to say it.

 

I find it disgusting to pay to not play the game.

I'm disgusted this concept even exists.

I'm disgusted that this concept is being accepted.

 

This is insane. People. Think about it.

 

You expend real life resources to not achieve something. Its like...arkham asylum levels of insane.

 

Ok first thing is first. For some of us, what we do in a video game does not count as any sort of worthwhile achievment. I do not care if I have the best of the best. In real life it means nothing. So if I want to take money I work for in the real world, that takes up my time, then spend it to speed up the process of my fun and enjoyment, why do you care?

 

 

If I have more fun being able to run things with different weapons I do not have the personal time to invest in farming for, why does it matter to you. 

 

If I am only able to play the game 3 hours a week, I am going to spend money to not have to spend those 3 precious hours farming for weeks for a single weapon.

 

 

Some of us have jobs/kids/real life responsibilities that are more important. And if we can speed up the farming process to enjoy other facets of the game, while supporting dev, what does that matter to you? 

 

This is not a PVP game. If my buying something in game somehow affects your enjoyment, get over yourself. It is PVE, meaning you can not buy it and it will never affect your experience. 

[Nod_Off]

Technically you can buy mastery.  Buy a frame for platinum and buy an experience booster.  If you are wearing 3 weapons that are not level 30 your Rank gains at incredible speed.  So yea, you can buy mastery rank.

 

 

Nope. Unless you can outright buy it then you can not buy mastery. You must put in the time to level the frames/weapons, even if you have a booster. This is just becoming a straw man arguement so that some people can say; "ooooo I worked for it, why do you have it!"

 

Guess what, I worked harder for the money I spent on it. 

[DefconOrange]

Ok first thing is first. For some of us, what we do in a video game does not count as any sort of worthwhile achievment. I do not care if I have the best of the best. In real life it means nothing. So if I want to take money I work for in the real world, that takes up my time, then spend it to speed up the process of my fun and enjoyment, why do you care?

If I have more fun being able to run things with different weapons I do not have the personal time to invest in farming for, why does it matter to you.

So why would you care to buy those things?

If for "some of you" these things are not a worthwhile achievement, why do you still want them?

Why can't you be OK with not having those things? After all, they are worth nothing to you.

Your argument is now at the point of "I want it because I deserve it".

Or, far more likely, these things have value to you and you find them desirable.

If you find them desirable, play the game, earn them, like you earn your IRL money (which is a virtual collectively agreed system of exchangerates propped up by debt without inherrent value).

Some of us have jobs/kids/real life responsibilities that are more important.

I have all of those, if this collides with my hobbies (multiple) then thats tough luck. Maybe I don't get to play in that local soccer match or I don't get to farm my Vauban. Sucks.

The priority is set by the individual, Warframe or going to the park and having a picknick, you decide.

Since you set your priority to job/kids/real life responsibilities, deal with it.

What you want is to have the cake and eat it too.

This isn't about if I am bothered by you using your RM purchased Vauban, I'm absolutely fine with you playing your RM Vauban.

This is in no way about me, its about you and your perception of values, and it makes no sense.

Like I mentioned earlier, you are paying for a non-achievement, thats even more crazy.

You actively spend resources that you consider to be "more important" (since you don't play the game, but instead do your job) for something that you insists has less/no value.

The amount of dissonance is stupifying.

Edited July 13, 2013 by DefconOrange

[Nod_Off]

Wow, you have a chip on your shoulder about this dont you. 

 

Here you go:

 

I never said anything about deserving it. You need to educate yourself on a straw man argument.  

 

I merely stated that this in no way, shape, or form affects your gameplay. So why are you bawling your eyes out about this? 

 

This is all about you and your odd need to feel like your video game time is somehow an achievement. 

 

 

If I bust my butt at my job and have disposable income to blow on what ever I want, who the heck are you to chastise me for spending it on a game so that I can enjoy my time in it how I want to?

 

You are so appalled by the fact that people are allowed to buy in game resources.... How about you make enough money to do it yourself, or be gone. You are crying over one of the silliest things I have ever seen, someone else's time and resource management. 

 

 

You are a very self entitled person, to tell me that if I have the resources to spend, but not the time to invest, then I should be sh!t out of luck because it does not meld with your little bubble of video game reality. 

Edited July 14, 2013 by Zackai

[Dasmir]

You dont like it ? dont use it...

[JawnHenry]

I welcome the chance to buy materials. In my case, I have the money but not the time.  It should stay as is.

Edited July 14, 2013 by JawnHenry

[WARGAMES]

ryald I think it's fine for those that don't have the time due to school and work. just for the matter of "is it worth spending? without buying the item you want out-right? I looked at it too and was like: oh god DE wants our money. but as expensive as they are in the market it outa be fine.  if anything they need to fix some resource drop rates again(42 morphics when I had 8 pre-U9, guess what happened)

[stacey69]

First off, I enjoy playing Warframe very much. I think it's an amazing work of art.

I also understand that those talented individuals working on Warframe need to be paid.

 

That said... I don't believe selling every single facet of the game for platinum is a good idea.

There is almost nothing you can't just buy with money now and it makes playing seem trivial.

Sure you might get a few people to buy the materials, but I think people are going to put less and less worth to actually playing the game, and we're going to get bored.

I don't think it's too late, you can still remove all the materials and credits from the platinum market and change the direction of the game away from swan diving off that pay-to-win cliff.

This is purely my opinion (obviously) and there is a chance I am the only one that feels this way.

If anyone else feels the same way or has any input, please speak up.

 

------------

Edit: I may be overreacting to the addition of materials/credits to the platinum market.

My mastery is at 8 right now and I have nearly every weapon in the game other than 2 remaining dojo weapons.

I work from home so I end up with some more free time than the average user and I farmed for every material, that was the hardest part. Seeing everything I just spend days on end working for get tossed up there all at once for plat was shocking to me, that's all.

I was tired and needed sleep so bought 300 plastids to set my mutagen mass off in the foundry. I vote it stays.

[Tejan]

You are a very self entitled person, to tell me that if I have the resources to spend, but not the time to invest, then I should be sh!t out of luck because it does not meld with your little bubble of video game reality. 

Here's the thing, in all games there's always something to set apart those that are good from those that aren't, or in the case of MMO's those that won't dedicate time to the game. In fighting games you have skill, pure and simple, you cannot buy this. In games like WoW you have the insane looking and extremely high stated items, those you cannot buy (though that might have changed and there was always illegal 3rd party vendors). In a game like Warframe where there is no established "high grade" item, aside from the prime items, there is little to show that you are better at the game than others. While this might sound like a superiority complex, cause it kinda is, you need to realize that no matter what happens a person will be upset if something like this happens.

Also, this also paints a slightly negative light on the game because it is making the game into a game that is simply pay to win. Games which do this are usually blasted quite hard by reviewers, look at Marvel Heroes.

 

As a sidenote: I need to ask, why do you play the game? Don't get me wrong I don't mean this as an insult, I'm honestly wondering what the factor that draws you to the game is. For me, and most people that agree with the sentiment of not allowing pay to win, the feeling of grinding out for items is just adds to the excitement of getting new items. Sure we're hyped to get new items, but having to work for the things and then getting them is just a good feeling (For this explained better than I ever could here's a video:

)

 

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention that while this is helping pay the dev's this promotes bad business practices. What if enough people decide to keep paying for resources and then they decide you can only get certain resources through using plat? This will screw over a lot of players.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Tejan

[Ironsides]

This game has gone to S#&$............hmm what to play next...but wait first i need to uninstall this money grabbing crap from my yes MY computer!

[Slayblaze]

...

 

Some of us have jobs/kids/real life responsibilities that are more important. And if we can speed up the farming process to enjoy other facets of the game, while supporting dev, what does that matter to you? 

...

 

You're right it doesn't matter to anyone (not even to you from the sounds of it).

 

His question was valid though - and it's rhetorical ie you don't need to answer - just think about it to yourself:

 

Why are you paying for stuff in a game you don't have time to play?

[The-Ex-Wife]

I find it not so much a bad idea. Just drastically under scaled for say the platinum to credits. Who the hell is dumb enough to pay 90 platinum for 30000 credits??!?!?!? One t3 void run can get like 70000 credits, Like I would think to make it separate and be say 1000 credits per platinum so you can actually enter the amount you want to spend and be more precise, cause then spending 90 platinum you are gettting 90000 credits but I still find that drastically under scaled. In all fairness with how easy it is to get credits 1 platinum for 10000 credits would be the only time I see it being fair. Cause apart from that just take 10 minutes to farm for a void key and run it cause you will get close to the 90 platinum worth.

[Nod_Off]

You're right it doesn't matter to anyone (not even to you from the sounds of it).

 

His question was valid though - and it's rhetorical ie you don't need to answer - just think about it to yourself:

 

Why are you paying for stuff in a game you don't have time to play?

Oh I do have time. I have actually, not even purchased any resources. But for someone to sit there and shame on me for paying for convenience is stupid. The next time someone pays for fast food, pays for a movie rental, or pays someone else to do anything for them they should could do themselves, remember that you are paying for convenience.

I purchased my Founders pack for the sole reason of supporting the Devs during closed beta. But, if I so choose to spend money on resources, ill be darned if I let some online punk tell me I am wrong for allocating my resources and time wisely. 

 

If I only had an hour to play a day, or even a week, but a game developer gave me the tools to enjoy the game how I want to... I am going to take advantage of that.

 

I actually invest a ton of time in this game. Having had one of the largest clans pre open beta, hosting giveaways, raffles, maintaining a website for my clan, etc. But i also make a decent amount of money and can spend that how I please.  

 

Just because someone does not play the game to fit his ridiculous preconceived notion of how games should be played, and or things achieved inside of games, does not make it ok for him to chastise people for it. 

 

Here's the thing, in all games there's always something to set apart those that are good from those that aren't, or in the case of MMO's those that won't dedicate time to the game. In fighting games you have skill, pure and simple, you cannot buy this. In games like WoW you have the insane looking and extremely high stated items, those you cannot buy (though that might have changed and there was always illegal 3rd party vendors). In a game like Warframe where there is no established "high grade" item, aside from the prime items, there is little to show that you are better at the game than others. While this might sound like a superiority complex, cause it kinda is, you need to realize that no matter what happens a person will be upset if something like this happens.

Also, this also paints a slightly negative light on the game because it is making the game into a game that is simply pay to win. Games which do this are usually blasted quite hard by reviewers, look at Marvel Heroes.

 

As a sidenote: I need to ask, why do you play the game? Don't get me wrong I don't mean this as an insult, I'm honestly wondering what the factor that draws you to the game is. For me, and most people that agree with the sentiment of not allowing pay to win, the feeling of grinding out for items is just adds to the excitement of getting new items. Sure we're hyped to get new items, but having to work for the things and then getting them is just a good feeling (For this explained better than I ever could here's a video:

)

 

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention that while this is helping pay the dev's this promotes bad business practices. What if enough people decide to keep paying for resources and then they decide you can only get certain resources through using plat? This will screw over a lot of players.

 

Let me clear something up very simply. 

 

lets go over a list of terms it appears are being explicitly or implicitly misunderstood.

 

Pay to Win

Free to Play

Random Number Generator

Grind

Product value

 

Now we can address those all in a simple explanation.

 

A free to Play game is a game that allows you it's core game play free of charge, these games do have to monetize to support themselves.  Often this takes the shape of two things: 1. cosmetic items, skins, "exclusives" that don't imbalance game play and 2. shortcut the process of earning in game items through play (called grinding), in short time or money.  A free to play game does have to be careful of the concept of pay to win wherein Items that can imbalance game play are available exclusively to paying customers, the threshold is a little looser on a PVE game than PVP because the enemies are not other people and it is simply a question of difficulty and not fairness.  

 

Now an element is not Pay to win if it can reasonably be gained through "grind", which brings us to the random number generator or "RNG"  this can make things seem unreasonably hard to get due to the nature of randomness.  contrary to popular belief streaks are a hallmark of randomness in fact the gamblers fallacy or an assumption of perfect distribution is deeply delusional when conceptualizing an RNG.  Functionally you need a sample size commensurate to the number of possible out comes and the set rates of drops to determine if the rng is actually functional, in a free to p[lay game your personal experience is unlikely to be anything near a significant data set.  You may just be (un)lucky but that doesn't mean a feature is pay to win or unreasonable to attain, that is the nature of the grind.  Again time for money.

 

Most free to play games use an in-game "real money" currency. now the amount of it and what you get for it are set generally by what the market will bear.  This is perceived product value, an individuals personal opinions bear very little on this but a groups does.  As a rule this is the primary monetization of a F2P game and so if it isn't selling well the prices will change.  If you are complaining about it and the prices are not changing odds are you are in the minority, as a rule businesses want to make money and thy will adjust if they are not, if your perceived value of the in game currency is less than the community at larges you should not expect it to change.

[Gripheon]

I dont care, i know i earned what i've done so far in Warfame with all of the effort i put in.

 

if you wanna waste your money you could be buying food with on a game where you could collect the items in question without having to pay a cent, whatever.

 

Avoid the effort as much as you like, ill enjoy this game the way i play. (not short-cutting resources) :)

[Nod_Off]

I dont care, i know i earned what i've done so far in Warfame with all of the effort i put in.

 

if you wanna waste your money you could be buying food with on a game where you could collect the items in question without having to pay a cent, whatever.

 

Avoid the effort as much as you like, ill enjoy this game the way i play. (not short-cutting resources) :)

 

Different play styles. Some people have more money than they need that they then allocate to entertainment. 

But guess what. If guy x has been playing since before this update... He has farmed resources in some form or fashion. 

 

Also, terms like this are stupid: "RM Vauban" 

It is a Vauban, if you want to differentiate because of your ego fine, but it looks bad. 

[-Kittens-]

I'm sorry but someone has to say it.

 

I find it disgusting to pay to not play the game.

I'm disgusted this concept even exists.

I'm disgusted that this concept is being accepted.

 

This is insane. People. Think about it.

 

You expend real life resources to not achieve something. Its like...arkham asylum levels of insane.

 

 

No, it's not.

 

All your point actually is "you should play the game THIS way"

 

How about you don't tell me how to play, and you don't tell me what or if to spend money on.

[Nod_Off]

No, it's not.

 

All your point actually is "you should play the game THIS way"

 

How about you don't tell me how to play, and you don't tell me what or if to spend money on.

I love sensible, intelligent people. =) 

[Vercinaigh]

Agree'd with OP, we did not need the pay for resources/credits, they are not particularly hard to get anyways.

[VoidWraith]

yeah.... those endless hours of just farming..... while yes, you cant technically buy mastery levels, you can cheat it with affinity boosters.... as the op said.... this is kinda slowly heading towards pay-to-win.... its a steep slope.... id rather you pay in credits like.... half a mil for some mats if youre talking about spending it into dojo building....

 

EDIT: for the affinity booster part... i know some of you might misinterpret what im saying so ill correct myself... you can have affinity boosters to quickly level up your gears and then gain points for your mastery level.... and since the affinity boosters are pretty effective.... if you just spend plats to get mats, and insta build stuff.... you have new weapons... and inv space.... and yeah.... basically.... plats for your nearly instant/quick mastery gains.....

Edited July 14, 2013 by VoidWraith

[liavalenth]

...this is kinda slowly heading towards pay-to-win...

No, no it is not. It is, however, heading towards 'pay to compete against people with more free time'. This is actually fairly simple logic;

If you can obtain the same things through play or money, then it is not pay to win.

If you cannot obtain things that are better through paying than you can through play, then it is not pay to win.

The only way this game could be considered pay to win is due to weapon/warframe slots, because those are the only (non-cosmetic) things in the game you must get through money.

Edited July 14, 2013 by liavalenth

[Casardis]

No, no it is not. It is, however, heading towards 'pay to compete against people with more free time'. This is actually fairly simple logic;

If you can obtain the same things through play or money, then it is not pay to win.

If you cannot obtain things that are better through paying than you can through play, then it is not pay to win.

The only way this game could be considered pay to win is due to weapon/warframe slots, because those are the only (non-cosmetic) things in the game you must get through money.

 

Except that it isn't that much about "competing" and more like "standing your ground next to them" since this is a PvE COOP game, not a PvP, as stated a few times.

 

To quote another post here, this feels and sounds "yuck." However, I don't think I'll mind too much in the end, and I'll certainly not let this affect my whole judgment towards DE and their work. In short, I don't care too much.

[Ced23Ric]

So, on one hand, DE massively ramps up the drop rates of key components, on the other, puts materials in the market for prices way above board, on the other hand, this game is turning P2W? Can't. It just got easier for free players to acquire those rare components. The shop is just an alternative - P4C - pay for convenience. The common materials are actually quite expensive - 30 Plat for 300 Plastids, anyone?

 

As for the credits: 90 Plat buys 30,000 Credits. Better buy a Void Key pack for 75 Plat, which will have at least 1 Tier III key. That pack alone is at least 100,000 Credits +mods, +xp, +prime parts. ;)

 

The entire shop model is "work in progress". DE will have to tweak these prices, and currently, the playerbase can form that process by voting with their Platinum. Every unit sold gives the prices credibility, every click not done takes it away. Such systems run for a while, metrics are collected, and then they are reworked.

 

Hang tight, Tenno.

[DefconOrange]

All your point actually is "you should play the game THIS way"

 

Yes, because you either play the game or you don't.

 

"THIS way" actually just means "play" instead of "pay not to play".

 

Now you are trying to tell me that im "restricting" you because I want you to play the game instead of paying for the ability not to play?

 

??? - mind blown

[DefconOrange]

Different play styles. Some people have more money than they need that they then allocate to entertainment. 

 

So not playing is a "playstyle"?

 

hahahaha

[RealityMachina]

Now you are trying to tell me that im "restricting" you because I want you to play the game instead of paying for the ability not to play?

 

Yes, because him paying doesn't affect you in anyway.