The actual definition of "scaling"

[JadeFromWarframe]

Hi, I'm a dirty noob who only installed, what, Sunday night? Anyway, in reference to Warframe abilities, I keep hearing people refer whether or not they "scale" well. For example, when people say Oberon sucks, one of the things pointed out is that he doesn't scale well (unless I'm remembering this wrong). But what does that mean? Like, every level you are on your warframe, you gain more or less damage/CC/whatever, or does this refer to how mods affect abilities? Asking for a friend.

[rapt0rman]

A weapon or ability that scales will continue to be effective relative to the enemy's level increasing.

Say you have two abilities, one dealing 100 damage, and one dealing damage equal to 10% of an enemy's health, and you have an enemy with 1000 health at level "X". Both abilities will deal 100 damage to that enemy. But against a level "X2" enemy with 2000 health, the first ability will still deal 100 damage while the second deals 200, and the damage for that second ability will continue to stay proportional, no matter how much an enemy's level increases.

there are multiple different methods that can be used to make sure stuff stays relevant at higher levels (my example is kinda the most straight forward for the purposes of explaining it, but it's rarely used in warframe), but problems arise because many enemies also have armor along with health, which scales exponentially with levels, which causes our weapons and abilities to need to work even harder to keep up and... scale the scaling?

[Urlan]

First of all, welcome to Warframe! Warframes have levels that mostly unlock mod points for the adding of additional mods and the possibility of stat growth through this customization. Enemies go up through raw stat increases in their levels which unlike the player can go up depending on the mission level or how long one goes in endless missions (Survival, Defense, Interception, etc). Abilities that give direct damage can only be modded so far even if one removes endurance mods to put on more ability stat increases; so their stats must be pretty excessive to be able to challenge enemies at the point players stop having level potential - if one considers mod points their levels - around 74 or so give or take a Steel Charge. Abilities that scale then are ones that have more growth than possible through warframe mods alone - like exalted abilities taking from weapon mods - or don't care about enemy level as much like Disarm, Energy Vampire, or Molecular Prime for example. Other abilities like pure disables are also good bets but enemies are often given partial or complete resistance to such moves as the game is updated or in tougher modes. Moves that scale are often nerfed eventually outright as they become more popular so its important to keep this in consideration when planning out forma and polarization of warframe mod slots.

Oberon in particular has a flexible move-set which is well suited to early play and handles well up to enemy levels around 40 with minimum mod investments but while the stat values are not the worst in his skills, the moves' various utility elements in exchange for raw power are overshadowed if as an all-rounder, you can barely effect the enemies more than a tickle while his effects like radiation are reduced in higher level content like Trials or against special enemies like the Grustag or other mini-bosses. Oberon's heal or protection moves are also more limited than the pure focused clerical healing of Trinity and while renewal still gives status removal, far distances, and healing overtime unlike Trinity, Blessing is instantaneous and gives damage resistance which is much more powerful than Hallowed Ground giving armor. Now mind, without dedicated mods Oberon is usually going to be more useful out of the box in normal levels but with a well stocked collection of mods, most players would find Oberon's little of everything move-set suffers compared to those with more focused roles.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Urlan

[Xzorn]

As mentioned scaling refers to the level range you're fighting.

There actually aren't many things with true scaling in this game but the term has been used incorrectly to the point of meaning something that scales well. Which is entirely from perspective and will vary heavily on play style. In example some might think something that's viable to lvl 100 scales well. While others might think it doesn't and things which scale to lvl 2,000 are what scale well.

Saryn's Spores come to mind as an ability that truly scales. It will always halve the HP of an enemy regardless of that HP total. CC is also often true scaling. Covert Lethality mod and Equinox's Maim are some others. Majority of damage sources in the game are not technically scaling but they've been given that branding for some reason.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

^ most slash weapons scale well too as the resulting status ignores armor and shields, what's the bigger issue then health is when enemys scale really.

 

[Xzorn]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

^ most slash weapons scale well too as the resulting status ignores armor and shields, what's the bigger issue then health is when enemys scale really.

 

 

Slash status Scales well but it doesn't actually scale since it does not overcome HP gains only Armor gains and is a set value based on the player's damage and not the enemy's stats. The other abilities I mentioned are based on the enemy's stats and although Maim is subject to armor scaling, this can be removed and even so it's still technically scaling with enemy level. If Slash status did 1% of enemy HP every second for 6 seconds then it would truly scale.

I was just trying explain the difference between the actual game term and what this community likes to use it for and that much of the terms use is a matter of perspective.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

Slash status Scales well but it doesn't actually scale since it does not overcome HP gains only Armor gains and is a set value based on the player's damage and not the enemy's stats. The other abilities I mentioned are based on the enemy's stats and although Maim is subject to armor scaling, this can be removed and even so it's still technically scaling with enemy level. If Slash status did 1% of enemy HP every second for 6 seconds then it would truly scale.

I was just trying explain the difference between the actual game term and what this community likes to use it for and that much of the terms use is a matter of perspective.

Ye not much of those in the game tho. There's only a hand full things in the game scaling at all.

Only things taking the enemys level into consideration are Trins EV, Necros shadows, Limbos cata (did it get nerfed yet?), any type of chaos ability that turns enemy damage against themselfes and a few mods from Tela De Thaym (The mods for sobek and Jat kittag in specific that create a aoe based off 60% of the max enemy health after death).

 

But dbuffs, Cc AND means to bypass scaling are indeed commonly refered to as "Scaling well" into the endgame as they make the level more or less irrelevant and stay equally effective.