Making Finishers Less Annoying

[SwankDank25]

How about moving finishers to the action button (X by default) instead of having it as the melee button? This would seriously speed up combat against blinded enemies and make it much more entertaining than what we have now. I'd rather stomp on a pile of ants instead of poking them individually. Excalibur and Inaros only promote the use of giant weapons even more (I'm lookin at you, Atterax). If anything, blinded enemies should promote the use of shorter weapons since they're stunned and getting up close is no longer a threat. I get that opening enemies to finishers makes short range melee weapons, like daggers, stronger in a way, but it's not like whips and polearms aren't able to perform finishers.

And this goes for stealth finishers on non-blinded enemies as well. Ever run up to an enemy trying to get a quick finisher kill only to attack them normally because you weren't close enough for the finisher prompt to appear? It would be really nice to be able to mash a key while running up to an enemy from behind to get a finisher without having to slow down and awkwardly tiptoe behind them, waiting for the prompt.

Thanks!

[Sannidor]

Returning idea, a good one though.

I would assume auto-finishers are DE's concept of "trade-off", but it can be something that was left unpolished and awaits for improvement.

Finishers animations need a serious revision. We barely ever fall out of maps doing them (still happens tho) but camera shift is confusing and pretty awful on visual side.

On a side note - most new players have no clue every frame can open enemies on finishers if their melee attack is blocked while channeling. Personally, I would make this feature skill based, working with right timing. Maybe announced channeling tweaks address this issue?

Edited May 4, 2017 by Sannidor

[LycanPT]

27 minutes ago, SwankDank25 said:

How about moving finishers to the action button (X by default) instead of having it as the melee button? This would seriously speed up combat against blinded enemies and make it much more entertaining than what we have now. I'd rather stomp on a pile of ants instead of poking them individually. Excalibur and Inaros only promote the use of giant weapons even more (I'm lookin at you, Atterax). If anything, blinded enemies should promote the use of shorter weapons since they're stunned and getting up close is no longer a threat. I get that opening enemies to finishers makes short range melee weapons, like daggers, stronger in a way, but it's not like whips and polearms aren't able to perform finishers.

And this goes for stealth finishers on non-blinded enemies as well. Ever run up to an enemy trying to get a quick finisher kill only to attack them normally because you weren't close enough for the finisher prompt to appear? It would be really nice to be able to mash a key while running up to an enemy from behind to get a finisher without having to slow down and awkwardly tiptoe behind them, waiting for the prompt.

Thanks!

I get what you're trying to say, but IMHO you can't bring the argument of slowing down since performing a finisher is putting yourself into an animation that take more time than to swing directly into the enemy

[THeMooN85]

Let me understand it... you want separated button for finishers?

X instead of E (where melee belong)? Wow that would really speed up combat - NOT.

38 minutes ago, SwankDank25 said:

giant weapons even more (I'm lookin at you, Atterax).

Eghm... Zenistar with Dominion skin... just saying.

 

You know what? I have much much more better idea.

What we actually need is to make daggers finishers only weapon like... having hidden dagger (on second melee slot or secondary as a melee instead of pistol ie.), you know what I mean? Daggers in Warframe are F$%^&G useless unless used with their "special mod" which grand lethal kill on finisher. Almost no one use daggers in Warframe... they could be used as that! As the finishers only melees. A hidden short blade, fast and absolutely lethal.

Edited May 4, 2017 by THeMooN85

[SwankDank25]

2 minutes ago, LycanPT said:

I get what you're trying to say, but IMHO you can't bring the argument of slowing down since performing a finisher is putting yourself into an animation that take more time than to swing directly into the enemy

Yeah, the speeding up part really only goes for what I said about blinded enemies since that's honestly all I care about. That 8x dmg really makes finishers obsolete for anything below lvl 100.... which is most of what we fight now.

[SwankDank25]

3 minutes ago, THeMooN85 said:

Lwt me understand it... you want separated button for finishers?

X instead of E (where melee belong)? Wow that would really speed up combat - NOT.

Eghm... Zenistar with Dominion skin... just saying.

 

You know what? I have much much more better idea.

What we actually need is to make daggers finishers only weapon like... having hidden dagger (on second melee slot od secondary as a melee instead of pistol ie.), you know what I mean? Daggers in Warframe are F$%^&G useless unless used with their "special mod" which grand lethal kill on finisher. Almost no one use daggers in Warframe... they could be used as that! As the finishers only melees. A hidden short blade, fast and absolutely lethal.

So you've really never been in a situation where picking off enemies one by one with finishers was slower than hitting them with regular attacks? And I can't tell if you're serious with the Zenistar thing since it's just a skin. Just like how Frost's popsicle sword skin doesn't unify attack range with all swords.

Your dagger suggestion doesn't really fix daggers as a whole. All it's doing is keeping them in their niche position of being strictly one shot weapons that need some ability to open them up, like Ivara's sleep arrow for instance. To start, Covert Lethality's insta-kill finisher property should just be innate on daggers. And to be fair, single daggers aren't complete garbage. Rakta Dark Dagger is alright. Now it's nothing groundbreaking, but it's not trash. DUAL daggers are trash since they can't even benefit from CL, and the stances generally all suck, complemented further by bad average stats.

[SwankDank25]

18 minutes ago, Sannidor said:

Returning idea, a good one though.

I would assume auto-finishers are DE's concept of "trade-off", but it can be something that was left unpolished and awaits for improvement.

Finishers animations need a serious revision. We barely ever fall out of maps doing them (still happens tho) but camera shift is confusing and pretty awful on visual side.

On a side note - most new players have no clue every frame can open enemies on finishers if their melee attack is blocked while channeling. Personally, I would make this feature skill based, working with right timing. Maybe announced channeling tweaks address this issue?

The timing thing would be pretty sweet since hardly any of the game rewards skill. The only problem with it is the fact that all melee units are super weak :p. I get that enemies whack you in the face with their gun if you get too close, but then you have to deal with the inconsistency of their swings since sometimes they just keep shooting you. But having a skill-based reward to melee play is something we definitely need since the melee gameplay we have now is just mashing one button over and over again.

[THeMooN85]

5 minutes ago, SwankDank25 said:

So you've really never been in a situation where picking off enemies one by one with finishers was slower than hitting them with regular attacks?

No... because I never use useless finishers... But I would if my idea would be in game. I don't need them in the way they are now. I kill faster with bare hands.

7 minutes ago, SwankDank25 said:

I can't tell if you're serious with the Zenistar thing since it's just a skin. Just like how Frost's popsicle sword skin doesn't unify attack range with all swords.

You were saying about "giant weapons" not giant range. Yes I know what you meant there but I just had to poke you.

9 minutes ago, SwankDank25 said:

Rakta Dark Dagger is alright

Yes "alright" I know. Same goes to Ash + Sheev... but no one use them! Excluding stealth gameplay or making enemies open for finishers. Alright is not enough.

9 minutes ago, SwankDank25 said:

since the melee gameplay we have now is just mashing one button over and over again.

Tell me... you don't use stances? I mean.. they have COMBINATIONS! And you wanna tell me that you only mashing EEEEEEEEEEEEEE brainless? Just ROLFed.

[Nazrethim]

Or.. Add multi target Finisher attacks.

Think like the Bloody Whisper from Mark of the Ninja

[THeMooN85]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

Or.. Add multi target Finisher attacks.

Think like the Bloody Whisper from Mark of the Ninja

Like Ash Ulti? I thought about that but no... I don't see it here. Ash would need another rework, like totally different ulti.

[Nazrethim]

8 minutes ago, THeMooN85 said:

Like Ash Ulti? I thought about that but no... I don't see it here. Ash would need another rework, like totally different ulti.

Not exactly, have you seen the Bloody Whisper from MotN? It would be a 2-3 target max and only if they are right next to each other, shoulder to shoulder, not a fancy "wipes 10m radius of enemies"

And Ash needs an actual rework, the last he got was a nerfvisit. A stance ultimate is the path of less resistance to fix all his issues.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Nazrethim

[THeMooN85]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

Not exactly, have you seen the Bloody Whisper from MotN? It would be a 2-3 target max.

And Ash needs an actual rework, the last he got was a nerfvisit. A stance ultimate is the path of less resistance to fix all his issues.

I just used youtube to check how Bloody Whisper from Mark of the Ninja looks and ... for me this is similar as Ash's ulti. That could work but need better/faster animation or just simple short animation like heart stab/cut the throat.

We didn't talked here about Ash so lets back to topic. I like him as he is now. No need to touch him. Kids stopped playing him because he stopped being brainless killer (and this is the best part of his rework), he need tactics now, so I like him now.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, THeMooN85 said:

I just used youtube to check how Bloody Whisper from Mark of the Ninja looks and ... for me this is similar as Ash's ulti. That could work but need better/faster animation or just simple short animation like heart stab/cut the throat.

Like the way Loki stabs two dudes in one of the old trailers?

Just now, THeMooN85 said:

We didn't talked here about Ash so lets back to topic. I like him as he is now. No need to touch him. Kids stopped playing him because he stopped being brainless killer (and this is the best part of his rework), he need tactics now, so I like him now.

He needs to change. His ult is just a flashier version of Fatal Teleport with inflated cost, a stance ultimate properly done (unlike exalted spam) could be very tactical while being exremely powerful and not allow the player to turn his/her brain off. Many don't understand the posibilities of a stance ultimate because, shockingly, most players know jacksquat about game development. But let's not go there, it's a silly place.

[THeMooN85]

4 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Like the way Loki stabs two dudes in one of the old trailers?

Oh "that"... yeah, this could work. Yet again we need specific circumstances to do that (invisibility thing, blind enemies, make them open for finishers).  

[Nazrethim]

Just now, THeMooN85 said:

Oh "that"... yeah, this could work. Yet again we need specific circumstances to do that (invisibility thing, blind enemies, make them open for finishers).  

Nah, that invi is for show off, also that Loki had negative duration for lasting that litte.

Just two enemies open for Finishers, or two unalerted enemies, in both cases next to each other.