Why There Will be No Veterans In a Year Time (read orig. post)

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

9 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I'd say we're stuck in lvl 10-15 random missions for hours and hours, and hours for the sake of another weapon that will just oneshot everything you usually meet in the game - same as the previous one. I never said old void was "good". It was still better than what we have now, but the main issue I have with current fissures is that they don't require any effort. It's just a waste of time for the sake of wasting time that doesn't encourage you to explore any game's mechanics except picking up lemons.

It's a horde shooter, not dark souls. Old void was awful, because cheese. And fissures require you to be interactive. Events, DC events, Sorties can be challenging..You honestly just sound burned out. You should take a break. All video games are generally a waste of time. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Darkvramp]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

It's a horde shooter, not dark souls. Old void was awful, because cheese. And fissures require you to be interactive. Events, DC events, Sorties can be challenging..You honestly just sound burned out. You should take a break. All video games are generally a waste of time. 

If games are such a waste of time then why are they so successful and making so much money for people? If you think they are a waste of time why are you posting on a forum about it, in fact why do you play the game at all?

Edited June 2, 2017 by Darkvramp

[AperoBeltaTwo]

16 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Or maybe this game is causal to some and we like to play it casual. 

Couldn't it be casual to some and not casual to others? It was that way before. You were never forced to stay for 40-60-80 waves in defence or for hours in survivals. One key - one full rotation and you're out. Yet, people who wanted to stay longer and enjoyed playing the game longer were encouraged to do so with that little extra bit of reward for their effort. But now you guys have your casual gameplay, but we don't have our extended gameplay with that extra bit for effort. Pretty much all my friends left the game. I have a list of like 60+ people usually offline whenever I log in. Some of them being offline for months and months. 

I'm not here to argue about tastes, guys. But it's a game and it's meant to be played continuously. And there are very simple basic game design tricks that allow the game to feel rewarding for more diverse tastes. But after void 2.0 diversity is gone. Diversity is gone. And if you can't find a way to entertain yourself in Warframe, at least not for me, the game isn't build to entertain you. "The game is what you make of it" - argument that's being thrown around in these kind of threads a lot is just an excuse for poor game design.

Ask yourself one more question guys, Would you want a 24\7 available, challenging continuous gameplay mode with rewards that are deeply rooted into the game's trade system and are universally acknowledged by all players? 

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

7 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

If games are such a waste of time then why are they so successful and making so much money for people? If you think they are a waste of time why are you posting on a forum about it, in fact why do you play game at all?

DE is successful because they are good at creating a game, Not because DE is good at playing it. Do you know what a business model is?

Because I like wasting my time playing a game, because I like this game. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[AperoBeltaTwo]

11 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

It's a horde shooter

A game is as good as Devs make it. Current void system btw doesn't require you to shoot anything. If one person in the whole team is killing enemies, the rest 3 could just follow him and pick up lemons. And still get the same reward as him. 

13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

And fissures require you to be interactive.

Picking up lemons just because vacuum doesn't work on them. You're joking, right?

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Sorties can be challenging..

15 minutes of gameplay once every 24 hours. 15. minutes. of. gameplay. Sometimes even less than that.

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

You honestly just sound burned out. You should take a break. All video games are generally a waste of time. 

Please, spare me this. I heard it a hundred times over. I'm on the forums taking a break. Cause I can't stand the game anymore. But I would still love to do the old t4 survival for ducats if I ever had a chance - I wouldn't feel like I'm wasting my time at least. Honestly, if DE ever bring Kuva to Kuva fortress (duh) missions (especially survival), i'll just be doing those. It would still be only one tileset, but at least something. My personal problem with current warframe is that it just took the one thing I enjoyed in it.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

11 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Couldn't it be casual to some and not casual to others? It was that way before. You were never forced to stay for 40-60-80 waves in defence or for hours in survivals. One key - one full rotation and you're out. Yet, people who wanted to stay longer and enjoyed playing the game longer were encouraged to do so with that little extra bit of reward for their effort.

We still have that, with fissures. In defense and survival for every 5 min/waves you get credit, resource, affinity boosts. And you can stay as long as u want. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

16 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Ask yourself one more question guys, Would you want a 24\7 available, challenging continuous gameplay mode with rewards that are deeply rooted into the game's trade system and are universally acknowledged by all players? 

Edited 15 minutes ago by AperoBeltaTwo

You have to be able to define what that is, and how we get there?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

DE is successful because they are good at creating a game, Not because DE is good at playing it. Do you know what a business model is?

Because I like wasting my time playing a game, because I like this game. 

I think you guys have a bit of a miscommunication there.

Anyway, talking about game design. Do you really think it is ok for game devs to not play their own game? Can you imagine a chef who never tasted his own cooking? But I had another thread for that topic. Search up "What are you a minmaxer" thread if you care. It's closed tho.
 

[DarcnyssWolfe]

I started playing this shortly after it went open beta. Loved the game, have spent more money on it than I'd like to admit, but in the last 2-3year's it's lost Alot of its... I don't know, fun? It's gone from actually being an engaging challenging and overall pleasant game to a genocidal rush fest with no real goals nor difficulty. I hate to admit but the majority of my in-game time is from my first years playing, now, most days I only login in for the sake of logging in (well played DE). I'll likely continue logging in until I hit some cap or something, but I hope DE can finally get #%$& together and give us a real goal/endgame to work for. This game is awesome but it's begun to feel more like a weekly rush job to get something out with a few long term things being worked out to flesh out lore. I want to enjoy this game once more rather than feel like its all just one big pointless grind against rng for nothing.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

11 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I think you guys have a bit of a miscommunication there.

Anyway, talking about game design. Do you really think it is ok for game devs to not play their own game? Can you imagine a chef who never tasted his own cooking? But I had another thread for that topic. Search up "What are you a minmaxer" thread if you care. It's closed tho.
 

Rebecca is a MR 23, and I can't speak for the other Devs. But I know the majority do play or are playing. I've been playing 4 years and only have 1600 hours and am an MR16. I have every arcane set, every frame and 90% of the weapons(in foundry). What would you consider enough playtime to understand this game and the mechanics of it?

Edited June 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[KorbanGado]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Guys in the comments, if this post doesn't get deleted instantly, if you wanna tell me how much you enjoy Warframe after playing for 3000 hours, first ask the questions below:
- Do you play alone or with a bunch of friends distracting you all the time?
- Do you play in random que?
- Do you often pay to skip the game? - (I understand that Prime access is Warframe's bread and butter, but it is what it is - you pay to skip the farm. Same goes for Day1 packs.)
- Do you really honestly think that Warframe's gameplay stands on its own?
- Would you want a 24\7 available, challenging continuous gameplay mode with rewards that are deeply rooted into the game's trade system and are universally acknowledged by all players? 

• Sometimes with friends, sometimes solo, sometimes with a PUG. Any game that allows playing with friends is usually better when doing so.
• Sometimes I do. Other times I don't feel like infringing on particular playstyles when I know I can do it solo. Yet other times I just have hit my social max and don't want to deal with people.
• I pay to support the game I enjoy playing. If I didn't like the game (as it seems you've worded it), then I wouldn't be playing the game let alone paying for it.
• Yes, it does. It scratches a very specific itch, I admit, but the main reason I originally started playing is for a PC equivalent to Mass Effect 3's Multiplayer mode. In the long run, this had more content and more options over just horde mode - all without forcing me to play against other players. I enjoy that high-speed Dynasty Warriors style heroic feel from playing low level missions. Every now and then I feel like more of a challenge and tackle something I can't personally solo with friends. Every now and then I go in to a survival and just see how long a build I've hobbled together will last.
• I don't really get what you mean here. Like, a gameplay mode that just never ends? A story mode with multiple steps like some sort of episode of the week? I can't really answer it because I don't understand it, but I guess I can look at the second part - rewards are nice, but I'd rather have more story to flesh out the world, and the only reason I care about trade is because everyone has a breaking point when it comes to RNG - I remember the first time I rage quit this game after using 20 something highest tier survival keys back in the day, going after something only available in the C rotation (and thus staying till 40 minutes each time), only for the final reward on the final key to give me a credit cache. That was rough.

 

Yes, the game will still have veterans left. Yes, the game will keep putting out content. No, not every player requires a carrot on a stick, a super hard game mode, a thrilling story,a certain mechanic, or whatever version of endgame you have in your mind (which mind you is frequently different based on who claims "endgame" as their banner). You might not be, I might not be, and someone else might not be, but that's fine. The game is free to play, and that works exceptionally well when it comes to players who've gotten burnt out then taking an extended break, only to pick up the game months or even years later and finding all sorts of new content to tackle - and the game is by far at it's probably most enjoyable when your just playing it to have fun, not farming out relics or prime gear for that one item that you have left to tackle. Granted, I haven't hit over 3000 hours yet, I'm apparently only sitting at a measly 2,000, but I feel at this point that's long enough to give me some say in the matter in my situation.

And as with anyone on the forums, I speak to my knowledge only for myself - as you only speak for yourself. It's inevitable that both will find others who agree with them. There are very devoted people in this community - I've seen and heard some of the stuff they do, and I doubt many of them would desert the game forever because they grew tired of the game - ran out of time because life has a way of eating up all your free time, sure. That's just the natural order of things for most of us. Of course, you could also go real gradious and say that one day the universe will have itself a little heat-death and the game will cease existing along with any veterans - but you've stated a years time. The game has existed for longer than that already, to claim that ALL veterans will be gone by next year when the game has done an impressive job of growing in those years of existence is just over-dramatic. I mean, heck, I'll be around, so that already invalidates that grandiose statement already. That's my two cents.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

We still have that, with fissures. In defense and survival for every 5 min/waves you get credit, resource, affinity boosts. And you can stay as long as u want. 

There are better ways to farm credits. There are better ways to farm resources, There are better ways to farm affinity - and this last one means that you have to take an unmaxed something into the fissure mission which already limits the max time you could stay in the mission even if your team mates don't leave after 2 rotations of your relics. And the random nature of fissures doesn't allow you to pick whatever type of mission you feel like playing right now. Basically turning all fissure missions into parcour sim with lemons that you gotta stop parcouring to pick up.

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

You have to be able to define what that is, and how we get there?

Ducats are currently the only universally acknowledged currency apart from plat that has a price tag on it - that's the kind of a reward I'm talking about.
- How do we get there?
For starters, change fissure rotation mechanic. There gotta be a fissure for every mission type in every relic tier 24\7 available. Endless fissures should support continuous rotation of the same relic, but with a different mechanic - not every 5 waves\minutes but maybe every 10-15 waves\minutes. That way you would still have your scenery change and short missions, and I would get my endless missions on various maps with ducats as a reward for my effort. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

13 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

I started playing this shortly after it went open beta. Loved the game, have spent more money on it than I'd like to admit, but in the last 2-3year's it's lost Alot of its... I don't know, fun? It's gone from actually being an engaging challenging and overall pleasant game to a genocidal rush fest with no real goals nor difficulty. I hate to admit but the majority of my in-game time is from my first years playing, now, most days I only login in for the sake of logging in (well played DE). I'll likely continue logging in until I hit some cap or something, but I hope DE can finally get #%$& together and give us a real goal/endgame to work for. This game is awesome but it's begun to feel more like a weekly rush job to get something out with a few long term things being worked out to flesh out lore. I want to enjoy this game once more rather than feel like its all just one big pointless grind against rng for nothing.

THIS

[AperoBeltaTwo]

19 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Rebecca is a MR 23

I've been playing 4 years and only have 1600 hours

Rebecca is not a dev. Have you ever seen Steve play Warframe? It's like he sees the game for the first time.

I did 1600 hours in a little bit over a year.
Enough playtime? For a game developer in a game such as Warframe? Well, having an account such as yours without cheats should be pretty much mandatory. Maybe not "all arcanes" cause a lot of arcanes are sh*t, you question why they are in the game in the first place. But yeah, a decent raid-sortie capable account with a hefty amount of stuff minmaxed and continuously used is a must have. Playing the game is a job requirement for any game developer. Especially the ones who decide how the game in question is gonna be played. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

30 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Rebecca is not a dev. Have you ever seen Steve play Warframe? It's like he sees the game for the first time.

I did 1600 hours in a little bit over a year.
Enough playtime? For a game developer in a game such as Warframe? Well, having an account such as yours without cheats should be pretty much mandatory. Maybe not "all arcanes" cause a lot of arcanes are sh*t, you question why they are in the game in the first place. But yeah, a decent raid-sortie capable account with a hefty amount of stuff minmaxed and continuously used is a must have. Playing the game is a job requirement for any game developer. Especially the ones who decide how the game in question is gonna be played. 

K,

Rebecca is a dev. 

Steve plays from a different pov than u and I. 

How do you know the majority of the devs haven't met those requirements? Do you know how many devs work on WF or play WF? U do know every one has a boss that tells them what todo right? Things you want take time. Game development takes time. So leave your feedback, play the game because u like it or don't play and enjoy doing something else. That's it

Edited June 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[AperoBeltaTwo]

20 minutes ago, KorbanGado said:

I don't really get what you mean here. Like, a gameplay mode that just never ends? A story mode with multiple steps like some sort of episode of the week?

No. I mean something you could jump in anytime you log into the game and just play your brains out as long as you like, while geting a universally valuable compesation for your time.

22 minutes ago, KorbanGado said:

rewards are nice, but I'd rather have more story to flesh out the world

 The problem with that is that quests require too much work. Quests are an incredibly inefficient time investment in terms of gameplay hours. War Within took a whole year to make - while the quest itself only took an hour tops to complete (and it pretty much didn't use any gameplay mechanics already established in the game prior), Quests simply don't work for grindy games. They are good to have but should never be the primary focus of development.

27 minutes ago, KorbanGado said:

not every player requires a carrot on a stick

 People need carrots. You don't notice them, when they are there, but you'll immedeately notice when they are gone. Think for a moment, if there is something apart from habit that motivates you to log into the game again and again - if it's your ingame friends, that would mean that the gameplay itself doesn't do it for you. Same with the "new shiny weapon, skin, etc" - it's still a carrot on a stick. New content is a carrot on a stick. New quest is a carrot on a stick. You wouldn't play this game without a carrot. I'm just personally fed up with those fake carrots and I want a reason to play the actual game for a change.

34 minutes ago, KorbanGado said:

fun

- Is an unquantifiable subjective term. The thing is, you'll still get fun with the carrot. You'll still have fun with endless game modes. But people like me, we need a reason to play Warframe - otherwise we don't play it. We need an incentive, a reward, a little thing to not feel as if our time is wasted for nothing. Because we like being efficient, we like being challenged, we like discovering maximum potential of ingame mechanics - this is how we get our fun. The problem is, without the carrot - a real carrot that is deeply rooted into the game's value system (like ducats), we feel like we waste our time. Especially there are easier and more efficient ways to get the same rewards. I know how to put it: if you guys challenge yourself to enjoy the game, people like me love to challenge the game to find out everything about it. One way isn't better than the other, but our way of getting fun was taken away from us,

43 minutes ago, KorbanGado said:

And as with anyone on the forums, I speak to my knowledge only for myself - as you only speak for yourself. It's inevitable that both will find others who agree with them. There are very devoted people in this community - I've seen and heard some of the stuff they do, and I doubt many of them would desert the game forever because they grew tired of the game - ran out of time because life has a way of eating up all your free time, sure. That's just the natural order of things for most of us. Of course, you could also go real gradious and say that one day the universe will have itself a little heat-death and the game will cease existing along with any veterans - but you've stated a years time. The game has existed for longer than that already, to claim that ALL veterans will be gone by next year when the game has done an impressive job of growing in those years of existence is just over-dramatic. I mean, heck, I'll be around, so that already invalidates that grandiose statement already. That's my two cents.

I only speak for myself and the people who happen to agree with me. Today is July 2, 2017. Let's see if you'll still be playing this game a year from now. Let's see if Warframe is gonna last another year the way it is now. I still hope endless missions come back before that tho.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

6 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

still hope endless missions come back before that tho.

We do, endless fissure survivals and defense that give boosts to resources, affinity and credits even void traces to unlock prime parts to either use or sell for in game currency to buy cosmetics. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Rebecca is a dev. 

Community manager. She's not a dev.

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Steve plays from a different pov than u and I. 

Which is a fancy way of saying, he doesn't play the game he's in charge of.

11 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

How do you know the majority of the devs haven't met those requirements? Do you know how many devs work on WF or play WF? U do know every one has a boss that tells them what todo right? Things you want take time. Game development takes time. So leave your feedback, play the game because u like it or don't play and enjoy doing something else. That's it

Which is a fancy way of saying "the sky is blue and you know not of the future".
 I don't want to do "something else". I want to play Warframe. And I would have enjoyed it if not for Void 2.0. And maybe even some of my friends would still have stuff to do in the game. You know, people aren't idiots. People ain't gonna play a game that doesn't offer any reward for the effort and time put into it. It's just how life works.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

People ain't gonna play a game that doesn't offer any reward for the effort and time put into it. It's just how life works.

And we have Events, Sorties, Raids. All yield rewards for effort.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

We do, endless fissure survivals and defense that give boosts to resources, affinity and credits even void traces to unlock prime parts to either use or sell for in game currency to buy cosmetics. 

I already answered that. 

52 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

There are better ways to farm credits. There are better ways to farm resources, There are better ways to farm affinity - and this last one means that you have to take an unmaxed something into the fissure mission which already limits the max time you could stay in the mission even if your team mates don't leave after 2 rotations of your relics. And the random nature of fissures doesn't allow you to pick whatever type of mission you feel like playing right now. Basically turning all fissure missions into parcour sim with lemons that you gotta stop parcouring to pick up.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Community manager. She's not a dev.

Still a dev. Guess who did captura and coop simulacrum amongst other things. Yes she is a dev. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Just now, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

And we have Events, Sorties, Raids. All yield rewards for effort.

all locked behind a timer.
Answered that as well. We're going in circles now

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Still a dev. Guess who did captura and coop simulacrum amongst other things. Yes she is a dev. 

So holes in simulacrum floor are Rebecca's work? Good to know.

I'm out for today. I'm tired. I'll come back tomorrow if this thread is still alive (which I doubt).

Edited June 2, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

all locked behind a timer.
Answered that as well. We're going in circles now

 

You just don't like the answers, is why we are goin in circles. 

[Darkvramp]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Which is a fancy way of saying "the sky is blue and you know not of the future".

 I don't want to do "something else". I want to play Warframe. And I would have enjoyed it if not for Void 2.0. And maybe even some of my friends would still have stuff to do in the game. You know, people aren't idiots. People ain't gonna play a game that doesn't offer any reward for the effort and time put into it. It's just how life works.

ok i dont want void 1.0 to come back, it lead to my first break, in which i have take 4. I wish that the fissure missions were more challenging, and had more variety, like adding to the corrupted enemy roster, or making like a random occurrence of a corrupted supersquad/boss. just something. void 1.0 was flawed, it kept you doing the same content over and over again in a single tileset. at least now we have a differing tileset use. we are still doing the same content, but that is warframe for you. War frame needs to take a few chapters from left 4 dead and the killing floor, with the end of the rotation bosses or something. Also they need to make the random bosses more controllable, not with the stupid expendable gears slot items every 2 weeks.