Mios and Lacera

[(PSN)acesandspades10]

I don't like these weapons in conclave. While I can't complain about the player size during the pause combo( I just shoot or avoid depending on if they are close to me). Large hit boxes always knock me down while bullet jumping directly upwards and I get killed anyway.

But, I feel biased because massive hate for the Tainted Hydra stance so I want to know if this is broken or I'm salty.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)acesandspades10 said:

I don't like these weapons in conclave. While I can't complain about the player size during the pause combo( I just shoot or avoid depending on if they are close to me). Large hit boxes always knock me down while bullet jumping directly upwards and I get killed anyway.

But, I feel biased because massive hate for the Tainted Hydra stance so I want to know if this is broken or I'm salty.

It's an issue true, but just play frost and it will force them to use something that requires effort. 

[(PSN)acesandspades10]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

 

I dont have frost though

[Nazrethim]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)acesandspades10 said:

I don't like these weapons in conclave. While I can't complain about the player size during the pause combo( I just shoot or avoid depending on if they are close to me). Large hit boxes always knock me down while bullet jumping directly upwards and I get killed anyway.

But, I feel biased because massive hate for the Tainted Hydra stance so I want to know if this is broken or I'm salty.

Well, considering is one of the only two weapons (the other being Sword&Shield) capable of hitting jump-spammers (people who just double jump slightly in place and pelt the melee player from above without anything the melee player can do) is a bit fair. Lacera in particular, as it's rather slow. Actually normalizing melee attack speed would solve this.

Sword Whips are fairly balanced really. The pause combo hits high and long, but has almost no radius, meaning sidestepping is usually enough to dodge it. The "long range" knockdown barely deals any damage, it's mostly a set up for the kill. The RMB combo, the one that applies the 'Impair' has next to no range so you don't really have any way to hit the more mobile players. There's also the fact that Swordwhips have the most animation-lock of all melee weapons, making dodging mid combo (something you can do with most other melee) impossible.

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

It's an issue true, but just play frost and it will force them to use something that requires effort. 

And Frost's Passive is actually broken for it's effect, more than Mios or Lacera perceived brokeness would ever be, as it requires zero effort to shutdown a melee player, and you know that "a bit of effort" (if you dont count the skills "Combo Steer" "Landing Prediction" and "Battle Tempo" as effort, otherwise it's actual skill-based playstyle) is very different from "no effort at all".

[(PSN)acesandspades10]

But isn't it slightly strong if it does that? Stun lock and high damage don't seem to be a fair combination.

[Nazrethim]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)acesandspades10 said:

But isn't it slightly strong if it does that? Stun lock and high damage don't seem to be a fair combination.

Not really "Stun lock" thanks to Anticipation. Knockdowns also have the bad habit of pushing the victim out of melee range unless used against a wall or other obstacle (combined with stairs making targets impossible to hit and melee's usual interactions with bad terrain) making melee very reliant on knowing where to fight (or outright scr*wing over melee playstyle in certain maps, like Cephalon Capture Derelict) unlike guns which, sans taking cover or breaking LoS, aren't really affected by terrain at all.

And again, if you are hit by the knockdown on the edges of the attack (Slam Radius for most weapons, or tip of the whip for whips and swordwhips) you take single digit damage.

In order to really kill, a Swordwhip user needs to catch it's prey with the full might of the combo... which is  roughly 50% wider than the frame and 2m upwards and 4m in front of it. And if you get caught with that part of the combo, you are dead or 10 or so hp away from it, at which point literally anything can kill you.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

9 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

And if you get caught with that part of the combo, you are dead or 10 or so hp away from it, at which point literally anything can kill you.

well that is the problem right there. it shouldn't do that amount of damage

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

well that is the problem right there. it shouldn't do that amount of damage

And guns should deplete Glide/Latch 3 times faster when firing and should deal jack damage at pointblank range (Shotguns exempt of course). But you can't have everything.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

2 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

And guns should deplete Glide/Latch 3 times faster when firing and should deal jack damage at pointblank range (Shotguns exempt of course). But you can't have everything.

but why? the only weapon type that should be bad in close combat should be snipers for obvious reasons. slowing down mobility and air combat will ruin conclave if you want to kill a player who is constantly in the air use a gun. its that simple.  

[Nazrethim]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

but why? the only weapon type that should be bad in close combat should be snipers for obvious reasons. slowing down mobility and air combat will ruin conclave if you want to kill a player who is constantly in the air use a gun. its that simple.  

And if you want to avoid being killed by melee stay out of melee range, is that simple.

 

[AlphaPHENIX]

My problem is more with polearms...and don't forget those one-shotting Jat Kittags

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

7 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

And if you want to avoid being killed by melee stay out of melee range, is that simple.

 

nor when the have 1 shot combos that you might as well take you hand off the keyboard. i only know one or two guns like that but i know countless melee weapons like that.

[SevenLetterKWord]

Tainted Hydra's pause combo, Heart of the Naga, has a fairly slow startup; I find it easy to avoid with a backwards bullet jump.
You may have difficulties quickly turning around with a PS4 controller. Try backflipping (ADS + backwards roll) instead.

Heart of the Naga used to be very effective, presumably because the raw power of it was not well telegraphed.
While I don't consider Heart of the Naga to be particularly overpowered, it does appear to outclass Tainted Hydra's RMB combo, Heart of the Imoogi.
I would be supportive of a nerf to Heart of the Naga in exchange for a buff to Heart of the Imoogi.

[(PSN)acesandspades10]

3 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

My problem is more with polearms...and don't forget those one-shotting Jat Kittags

Does the hammer stance slow you down?

[(PSN)acesandspades10]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

And if you want to avoid being killed by melee stay out of melee range, is that simple.

 

The Mios can knock you down in midair and kill you, it's happened plenty of times to me

[Nazrethim]

8 hours ago, (PS4)acesandspades10 said:

The Mios can knock you down in midair and kill you, it's happened plenty of times to me

I know, and I have used that weapon countless times. The only way to get isntagibed by Mios is to eat the full might of the combo, not the edges. Lacera can deal a lot of damage with the edges, but it's way way slower than Mios.

 

11 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

@(PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX @Nazrethim

I know you two looove comparing melee and gunplay to see whose is bigger...
But this is the second thread this week that you two have hijacked to chuck straw men at each other.

Eh, not really for me. I just point out that Melee has a very different skillset that dedicated gunplayers wouldn't understand. Ribbium claims melee has no skill requirment.

11 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Get a room.

On topic:
Tainted Hydra's pause combo, Heart of the Naga, has a fairly slow startup; I find it easy to avoid with a backwards bullet jump.
You may have difficulties quickly turning around with a PS4 controller. Try backflipping (ADS + backwards roll) instead.

You can also dodge sideways and avoid it entirely. Unless the player has mastered the Combo Steer skill.

11 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Heart of the Naga used to be very effective, presumably because the raw power of it was not well telegraphed.
While I don't consider Heart of the Naga to be particularly overpowered, it does appear to outclass Tainted Hydra's RMB combo, Heart of the Imoogi.
I would be supportive of a nerf to Heart of the Naga in exchange for a buff to Heart of the Imoogi.

It does, mostly because Heart of the Imoogi has little range on the attack that delivers the impair, while the wide range whip attack deals negligible damage. Usually the course of action is to use Heart of the Naga to get the knockdown then rush into Heart of the Immogi to finish the job. Or wait for an opening or predict where your mobile target will land and unleash the Heart of the Naga as your opponent lands, delivering the full force of the combo and getting the kill. Again, Combo Steer skill makes a world of difference here.