Dojo Duels are underrated

[Duavey]

1 hour ago, firephoenixearl said:

It's not unmodded dummy, he procced cold, both the weapons and warframes are fully modded.

My bad, only noticed the slash procs.

1 hour ago, firephoenixearl said:

PVE is the builds casuals use, they are the weakest possible builds in duels, but u haven't tested them so ofc u'd talk blindly

According to descriptions I saw he runs Condition Overload melee... like PVE people do.

 

Look, I get you like melee only dojo duels but this is really niche. I personally see no point to dedicating my time to this mode of play. Sorry.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Duavey
stuff

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

3 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

Ou belive me u improve a WHOLE lot more in Melee Duels than in anything else, because it requires stuff pve doesn't like timing, knowing hit boxes, baiting, dodging etc, while all pve needs is press abilities and spam melee with naramon the rest of the game, stuff that just doesn't work in duels.

It's a complete ego stroke... nothing else. I'd rather watch flies f**k.

[Heckzu]

3 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

it requires stuff pve doesn't like timing, knowing hit boxes, baiting, dodging etc,

All I see here is a description of Conclave, not Dojo Dueling.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I love dueling with a passion and it is my favorite part of the game minus record runs. I hold pride in saying that I've only lost one duel in all my years playing warframe. Eventually then, i bested the person that got me by his own admission. It's a great feeling. Problem is now with the whole hosting situation, the way weapons have been getting more and more powerful, and how DE keeps messing up dueling to be more like Conclave, I've been losing my interest in dueling and to me, dueling is dead. Ever since Shadow Debt, the power creep has been too real and us duelers feel it the most out of everyone because even though enemy level keeps rising, we don't. The worst era in dueling was definitely early this year with maiming strike polearms and whips, telos Boltace, and channel spam. I'm glad at least the telos Boltace has been taken off the table.

Edited June 19, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[(PSN)Kardello]

my only issue with dojo dueling is that the dueling arenas are too small. If you could dedicate an entire room, and just place the energy and health spawners as well as the starting points for the duel wherever you wanted, it would make it a lot more interesting. It would encourage you as a dojo architect to make an interesting battlefield, and it would give purpose to the garden rooms.

[firephoenixearl]

4 hours ago, Heckzu said:

All I see here is a description of Conclave, not Dojo Dueling.

Cus u never went to high levels, conclave doesn't require half of the stuff Dojo Dueling does, u can fully trust me on this one.

[firephoenixearl]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I love dueling with a passion and it is my favorite part of the game minus record runs. I hold pride in saying that I've only lost one duel in all my years playing warframe. Eventually then, i bested the person that got me by his own admission. It's a great feeling. Problem is now with the whole hosting situation, the way weapons have been getting more and more powerful, and how DE keeps messing up dueling to be more like Conclave, I've been losing my interest in dueling and to me, dueling is dead. Ever since Shadow Debt, the power creep has been too real and us duelers feel it the most out of everyone because even though enemy level keeps rising, we don't. The worst era in dueling was definitely early this year with maiming strike polearms and whips, telos Boltace, and channel spam. I'm glad at least the telos Boltace has been taken off the table.

Hmm, power creep is just a pve thing, here is a funny story: Machete Wraith has been my main weapon in duels (especialy this past year) and if i were to get a powerful frame and that, i'd have no rivals, why....because pve stats don't apply to dueling. And i don't think DE is trying to make dueling same as conclave, they are trying to make their life easier with certain stuff between those 2, but if u pay attention to some mods that exist....well... they ONLY work in duels. DE just keeps adding more and more mods for dueling , like handspring, pain threshold etc. As for Maiming, Polearms and Whips there is a certain way to get THOSE off the table :). And channel spam, what's wrong with channel? I mean dueling is the only place u can at least use it to make stuff matter why is that bad too, i think it's a pretty nice thing to add.

[firephoenixearl]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Kardello said:

my only issue with dojo dueling is that the dueling arenas are too small. If you could dedicate an entire room, and just place the energy and health spawners as well as the starting points for the duel wherever you wanted, it would make it a lot more interesting. It would encourage you as a dojo architect to make an interesting battlefield, and it would give purpose to the garden rooms.

Ugh...before the new dueling system there was a bug where u could fight outside of the arena, it required 4 people to be there though. I tried that, nothing beats a good ol' dueling ring doe. If there were spawning points, bigger room etc, it would just be conclave, the small room is exactly what makes dueling good, no real place to hide, u HAVE to develop your dodging skills, and also it allows for REAL fast paced fighting. Conclave feels like a small war, dueling feels like a boxing match, which makes it far superior for sparring.

[firephoenixearl]

9 hours ago, Duavey said:

According to descriptions I saw he runs Condition Overload melee... like PVE people do.

Hahaha....there are no exclusive mods to dueling, we use pve mods but dueling BUILDS. Condition Overload is just much better in dueling than in pve, if u still think that is a pve build try taking that build into void survival (mot).

Edited June 19, 2017 by firephoenixearl

[Heckzu]

58 minutes ago, firephoenixearl said:

Cus u never went to high levels, conclave doesn't require half of the stuff Dojo Dueling does, u can fully trust me on this one.

Dojo Dueling is just a race to see who can pull off their gimmick faster and has absolutely no balancing. Why would I trust someone with no credibility?

"Cuz u never went to high levels, Arma doesn't require half of the stuff Call of Duty does, u can fully trust me on this one."

1 hour ago, firephoenixearl said:

And i don't think DE is trying to make dueling same as conclave, they are trying to make their life easier with certain stuff between those 2, but if u pay attention to some mods that exist....well... they ONLY work in duels.

Dojo Duel is literally just a remnant of PvP 1.0 which was removed due to lack of balancing. At this point, it's just too much work to overhaul it to the Conclave system because Conclave mods can only be equipped on Conclave loadouts, which are separate from the PvE loadout you use while in the Orbiter.

[firephoenixearl]

27 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Dojo Dueling is just a race to see who can pull off their gimmick faster and has absolutely no balancing. Why would I trust someone with no credibility?

Not a chance, u'r reminding me of noobshowtek rn, just assumptions, u are just someone who only dueled "once" using a pve build and then went around spreading S#&$ about dueling. Dueling needs more skill than pve and conclave multiplied brah, just cus u don't have it in u due to lack of experience is not the duel's fault.

 

27 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

"Cuz u never went to high levels, Arma doesn't require half of the stuff Call of Duty does, u can fully trust me on this one."

Yes u can trust me, why u may ask, i have spent more time there than u have spent in warframe total, im arguably the most knowledgeable guy in warframe (when it comes to dueling knowledge) and im trying to bring dueling the glory it deserves i don't have a reason to lie nor overestimate, that's why u can trust me, dueling is just good if u get into it.

Edited June 19, 2017 by firephoenixearl

[Kangarad]

sadly these duels are just meh for me. I tried em. and I can savely kill people without trying. hit em with the torid ... wait for the counter to start to count down and watch em die of poison... or charge staticor and go touch em, if they run you still have that massive aoe of death... melee, zenistar maxd range put it down and watch your enemy die, theres nowhere he can hide from it and the base damage+ slash is realy great.

 

there are many weapons that just invalidate dueling like ^that.

if you want to duel go to conclave where pve stats are not taken over and equip the same stuff(beware of certain mods/weapons tho, some do increase the damage to insta kill levels).

 

too bad the dojo duel is noww also no longer spectable due to being a separate instance right?

[firephoenixearl]

8 minutes ago, Kangarad said:

too bad the dojo duel is noww also no longer spectable due to being a separate instance right?

U can invite people to the separate room so it IS spectable.

 

9 minutes ago, Kangarad said:

sadly these duels are just meh for me. I tried em. and I can savely kill people without trying. hit em with the torid ... wait for the counter to start to count down and watch em die of poison... or charge staticor and go touch em, if they run you still have that massive aoe of death... melee, zenistar maxd range put it down and watch your enemy die, theres nowhere he can hide from it and the base damage+ slash is realy great.

 

there are many weapons that just invalidate dueling like ^that.

if you want to duel go to conclave where pve stats are not taken over and equip the same stuff(beware of certain mods/weapons tho, some do increase the damage to insta kill levels).

Duels are pretty balanced too, not to the point of being boring doe, u say zenistar, but maiming atterax can beat it and maiming atterax can be beaten by any melee in the game. But the rules i play with are actualy (Melee Only, No Abilities, No Zenistar, No Whips, No Polearms, there are more banned stuff but these are the mains). So it all comes down to skill and knowledge, try dueling with those rules, or meet me in game i will show u the real dueling there.

[Kangarad]

1 hour ago, firephoenixearl said:

U can invite people to the separate room so it IS spectable.

 

Duels are pretty balanced too, not to the point of being boring doe, u say zenistar, but maiming atterax can beat it and maiming atterax can be beaten by any melee in the game. But the rules i play with are actualy (Melee Only, No Abilities, No Zenistar, No Whips, No Polearms, there are more banned stuff but these are the mains). So it all comes down to skill and knowledge, try dueling with those rules, or meet me in game i will show u the real dueling there.

so your banning more than 70% of the aviable equipment right of the bat, not counting the melee stuff you are also banning. I hope you also banned the redeemer (which is also a  oneshot) and several elemental aoe weapons esp. those with 100% status. which brings you down to less than 10% viable stuff or... like 2 hands full of weapons of which a few are non viable.

I dont see how this makes dojo duels worth my time over straight up conclave. yes Ive been challanged before, and the only time I got beaten was with cheese and there is alot of cheese in the dojo.

[firephoenixearl]

26 minutes ago, Kangarad said:

so your banning more than 70% of the aviable equipment right of the bat, not counting the melee stuff you are also banning. I hope you also banned the redeemer (which is also a  oneshot) and several elemental aoe weapons esp. those with 100% status. which brings you down to less than 10% viable stuff or... like 2 hands full of weapons of which a few are non viable.

I dont see how this makes dojo duels worth my time over straight up conclave. yes Ive been challanged before, and the only time I got beaten was with cheese and there is alot of cheese in the dojo.

Redeemer is pretty fine, and any other melee is, whips and polearms aren't 70% they are barely 5-8%. Let's meet in game i'll prove u that cheese is not the way of dueling, i'll beat ur cheese with my rules if that's what it would take for u to belive that dueling a fair way of sparring where the best shall win.

[Kangarad]

1 minute ago, firephoenixearl said:

Redeemer is pretty fine, and any other melee is, whips and polearms aren't 70% they are barely 5-8%. Let's meet in game i'll prove u that cheese is not the way of dueling, i'll beat ur cheese with my rules if that's what it would take for u to belive that dueling a fair way of sparring where the best shall win.

no, I agree that there are fair ways... theres just so mcuh stuff that is not that the rules set are going to be very restrictive to the playstiles of choice.

I personaly like to snpie things with my lex, but sicne that gun is oneshotting other people in the dojo and a gun I could not even use it against you.

also id include stuff like the ak and brunt in not allowed aswell (due to shenanigans with the conclave stance) as elemental weapons which can set you on fire/poison/stun/stagger/ragdoll or similar on melee aswell as take out those melee weapons which are so weak in the dojo that they cant even kill a person in a minute.
 

Just write out your full list of what to actualy use here and ill go over it and tell you what of it could be cheesed how and why it should not be used :D

 

[firephoenixearl]

4 minutes ago, Kangarad said:

no, I agree that there are fair ways... theres just so mcuh stuff that is not that the rules set are going to be very restrictive to the playstiles of choice.

I personaly like to snpie things with my lex, but sicne that gun is oneshotting other people in the dojo and a gun I could not even use it against you.

also id include stuff like the ak and brunt in not allowed aswell (due to shenanigans with the conclave stance) as elemental weapons which can set you on fire/poison/stun/stagger/ragdoll or similar on melee aswell as take out those melee weapons which are so weak in the dojo that they cant even kill a person in a minute.
 

Just write out your full list of what to actualy use here and ill go over it and tell you what of it could be cheesed how and why it should not be used :D

 

Well A&B is fine with the stance too, if u use the stance ur an ez target, if u don't it's just another melee weapon, pure elemental weapons are = to normal weapons in terms of strength if not weaker in some cases, some stuff in dojo doesn't work as in pve, if u'r on later we can try ur "shenanigans", because everything may sound op in theory or when used against newcomers, u need a challenger to test stuff :) .

[(XBOX)AyersyBears]

Personally duelling is fun for about 5 minutes against friends, then it's boring. I hate PvP in pretty much every game I play (aside from Overwatch), I also hate it in Warframe. I do not need to play a game to prove my skill to anyone, I play to relax and de-stress, as well as for the lore, so PvE is where I will stay.

In terms of Duelling/ Conclave being more 'skillfull' than PvE, that is like saying heart surgery requires more skill than brain surgery. You can't compare skill levels between two different things, that require different techniques and knowledge about different things.

[firephoenixearl]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)AyersyBears said:

In terms of Duelling/ Conclave being more 'skillfull' than PvE, that is like saying heart surgery requires more skill than brain surgery. You can't compare skill levels between two different things, that require different techniques and knowledge about different things.

Hmm in general that is true, in warframe pve is just too easy, so in warframe Dueling DOES require more skill and time to master.

[(XBOX)AyersyBears]

38 minutes ago, firephoenixearl said:

Hmm in general that is true, in warframe pve is just too easy, so in warframe Dueling DOES require more skill and time to master.

Aside from basically ignoring my point, it depends on what you mean.

Doing a level 20 exterminate on Ceres for someone who has played PvE for 2 years IS easy. 

But for someone who has duelled for 2 years, duelling against someone who started a few days ago is also really easy.

Either way, there are varying levels of difficulty, and neither is more 'skillful' than the other, because they are different game-modes that require different ways of thinking, knowledge, equipment, builds etc etc.

In terms of 'mastering' PvE/ duelling, I doubt there is much time difference between becoming 'good' at duelling and becoming 'good' at PvE. But this also depends on your definition of 'good' and 'mastering'.

[firephoenixearl]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)AyersyBears said:

Aside from basically ignoring my point, it depends on what you mean.

Doing a level 20 exterminate on Ceres for someone who has played PvE for 2 years IS easy. 

But for someone who has duelled for 2 years, duelling against someone who started a few days ago is also really easy.

Either way, there are varying levels of difficulty, and neither is more 'skillful' than the other, because they are different game-modes that require different ways of thinking, knowledge, equipment, builds etc etc.

In terms of 'mastering' PvE/ duelling, I doubt there is much time difference between becoming 'good' at duelling and becoming 'good' at PvE. But this also depends on your definition of 'good' and 'mastering'.

Hmm no i mean like pve is mostly more on the equipment, if u have good enough equipment it's not hard to do almost anything pve has to offer. While in duels even if u have good equipment it's not easy to be good with it. Pve is mostly about spam (don't even try to deny that) , spam abilities, spam melee combos etc, while u CAN'T spam combo in duels, u'll just get nailed in seconds cus u'r being an easy target, that's what i mean, and there is a huge time difference between being good at pve and being good at dueling.

[(XBOX)AyersyBears]

Just now, firephoenixearl said:

Hmm no i mean like pve is mostly more on the equipment, if u have good enough equipment it's not hard to do almost anything pve has to offer. While in duels even if u have good equipment it's not easy to be good with it. Pve is mostly about spam (don't even try to deny that) , spam abilities, spam melee combos etc, while u CAN'T spam combo in duels, u'll just get nailed in seconds cus u'r being an easy target, that's what i mean, and there is a huge time difference between being good at pve and being good at dueling.

That is entirely my point. To become 'good' at PvE, you need to think differently and play differently to duelling, hence why you shouldn't compare them in terms of skillfullness. 

The skillfulness of PvE comes mostly from knowledge, knowing what equipment to use, when to use it, how to build it, how to use powers, what they are useful for etc etc. Now you could just copy someone's build from YouTube/ Twitch/ whatever, but just shows that PvE is more popular than duelling. You could if you wanted, make a YouTube duelling series teaching people how to duel, and there might even be one. Doesn't make it require any more skill.

Now there will always be certain pieces of equipment that are easier to use than others, and that will be the same for duelling.

Duelling is more about your reactions and reading your opponent. Doesn't mean it takes MORE skill, it takes a DIFFERENT TYPE of skill. 

Would also like to point out that you don't HAVE to spam anything to be 'good' at PvE, it's just that a lot of people do.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

11 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

Hmm, power creep is just a pve thing, here is a funny story: Machete Wraith has been my main weapon in duels (especialy this past year) and if i were to get a powerful frame and that, i'd have no rivals, why....because pve stats don't apply to dueling. And i don't think DE is trying to make dueling same as conclave, they are trying to make their life easier with certain stuff between those 2, but if u pay attention to some mods that exist....well... they ONLY work in duels. DE just keeps adding more and more mods for dueling , like handspring, pain threshold etc. As for Maiming, Polearms and Whips there is a certain way to get THOSE off the table :). And channel spam, what's wrong with channel? I mean dueling is the only place u can at least use it to make stuff matter why is that bad too, i think it's a pretty nice thing to add.

These mods you speak of are not made FOR dueling. They were made a long time ago, probably before you (and sometimes even I) started playing, back when this game was a casual 3rd person shooter and level 50 was considered hard.  They just work well for dueling now more than pve because average enemy level has past dueling levels. Power creep is extremely real for us duelers because pve stats and mods did apply to us. That's why valkyr, ash, atlas, rhino, and frost dominate the duel field. As for your weapon of choice, it really doesn't matter as much as any melee weapon does enough damage to take down a warframe pretty quick, but ranged weapons dominate the field now. 

Edited June 19, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[firephoenixearl]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

These mods you speak of are not made FOR dueling. They were made a long time ago, probably before you (and sometimes even I) started playing, back when this game was a casual 3rd person shooter and level 50 was considered hard.  They just work well for dueling now more than pve because average enemy level has past dueling levels. Power creep is extremely real for us duelers because pve stats and mods did apply to us. That's why valkyr, ash, atlas, rhino, and frost dominate the duel field. As for your weapon of choice, it really doesn't matter as much as any melee weapon does enough damage to take down a warframe pretty quick, but ranged weapons dominate the field now. 

It's not as much on the weapon as it is on the build, u can try a galatine build if u want but it'd still pale in comparison to the dmg my machete is dealing. Also as for the mods u are partially wrong, i can probs agree on stuff like insulation for example but pain threshold and rapid resilence were released not too long ago, they were released when enemies just didn't care about the buffs those give, so yeah...some stuff just DOES seem to be added for duels, i may be wrong though, im not part of DE, maybe they are just throwing in random mods and they just happen to only work in duels but it's kind of unlikely, because duels have recieved buffs and nerfs lately so it is possible that they look at dueling more than we think.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 minute ago, firephoenixearl said:

It's not as much on the weapon as it is on the build, u can try a galatine build if u want but it'd still pale in comparison to the dmg my machete is dealing. Also as for the mods u are partially wrong, i can probs agree on stuff like insulation for example but pain threshold and rapid resilence were released not too long ago, they were released when enemies just didn't care about the buffs those give, so yeah...some stuff just DOES seem to be added for duels, i may be wrong though, im not part of DE, maybe they are just throwing in random mods and they just happen to only work in duels but it's kind of unlikely, because duels have recieved buffs and nerfs lately so it is possible that they look at dueling more than we think.

Rapid Resilience was released because of a backlash from the community back the the day getting pissed off (go figure) from eximus and grineer status procs and infested love of toxin and magnetic procs. How that transferred to dueling was a side effect, like maiming strike. The adjustments to dueling came after pvp 2.0 was released and DE wanted to make a legitimate pvp aspect to the game. Dueling was basically their experimentation room for this, as stuff like iron skin losing health over time was implemented into dueling before anything else. A while ago, crits were removed shortly for dueling, a feature that was then introduced into conclave and then crits were returned to dueling. Mentioning of this was minimal though as DE really is against a pvp focused game and only wants pvp for the sake of having that aspect. There was a time when dueling use to be a big thing for players, but as we see, DE's focus has and always will be PvE and Conclave. Fyi, a 10m radial slide attack of 2500 toxin damage is pretty nasty compared to anything else most people will be throwing out. Use the Gazal Machete. Its better in literally every way. It even has the knockdown. With Drifting contract and virulent scourge, you will never ever lose, because even if they out damage you and kill you first, your chance of getting a toxin proc are so high that you only need to tag them once or twice that'll kill them too.