Sobek Shotgun 9.1.4 Thread Merger

[LazyKnight]

@ThSeannachaidh So what reload speed would make you happy?

 

Just wondering because I hate the Vulkar just because of reload time alone, I am not being sarcastic.

Edited July 17, 2013 by LazyKnight

[TheSeannachaidh]

@LazyKnight 

As I have said, I was perfectly happy with the Sobek in its pre 9.1.4 state: Fast reload, big mag, but a relatively low damage output. It wasn't a handheld nuke, but it got the job done, and one could stay in range of the drop off during the short reload. If I had to concede some sort of nerf with regards to the reload speed at least make it on par with the other shotguns instead of nerfing it to the longest shotgun reload in the game just for more damage.

If they are going to change it at all, then they should make it unique in its behaviour.. They should not just make it the same as, but slightly higher damage than, something that is already out; just change that already existing thing and give us a new weapon, or leave it as it was because people will complain anyways.

Edited July 17, 2013 by TheSeannachaidh

[Mazimer]

all imma say is

5x the shots of hek to reload 30% longer

 

all imma say is

why the actual frak do you need firerate for shotguns? if its not modded enough to oneshot, you're doing something very very wrong (HEK can oneshot t3 corrupter gunners with a headshot, durr)

 

all imma say is

blaze

 

all imma say is

sobek is now good, solid medium damage cleaning shotgun, while before it was a pellet waster, struggling to efficiently kill anything above level 30

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mazimer

[LazyKnight]

@LazyKnight 

As I have said, I was perfectly happy with the Sobek in its pre 9.1.4 state: Fast reload, big mag, but a relatively low damage output. It wasn't a handheld nuke, but it got the job done, and one could stay in range of the drop off during the short reload. If I had to concede some sort of nerf with regards to the reload speed at least make it on par with the other shotguns instead of nerfing it to the longest shotgun reload in the game just for more damage.

If they are going to change it at all, then they should make it unique in its behaviour.. They should not just make it the same as, but slightly higher damage than, something that is already out; just change that already existing thing and give us a new weapon or leave it as it was because people will complain anyways.

Considering the only use a shotgun has is burst damage and virtual nothing would survive 20 shots or even a room needing that many they could lower the reload time to 3. It wouldn't make the gun any stronger because people would not be using it as a DPS weapon but as a DPS per magazine weapon for burst.

 

HEK still crushes Sobek in per shot damage so they could make it reload faster just for ease of use reasons. It now fills the roll of light shotgun with high ammo count and would be better for maps with many weaker NPC. I am happy it at least has a role now when it was at 40 damage it was MK1-Braton levels.

 

Edit: sorry for typos I need sleep....

Edited July 17, 2013 by LazyKnight

[TheSeannachaidh]

all imma say is

5x the shots of hek to reload 30% longer

 

all imma say is

why the actual frak do you need firerate for shotguns? if its not modded enough to oneshot, you're doing something very very wrong (HEK can oneshot t3 corrupter gunners with a headshot, durr)

 

all imma say is

blaze

 

all imma say is

sobek is now good.

*All that I am going to say* or *All I will say*

Use your language, man; we didn't evolve for several hundred thousand years for you to sound like a twat. Even just use proper contractions! We (i.e. human beings) did already think of and establish a system for doing that, and you are most welcome to discover and use them and look like you aren't a degenerate fool. And what is more, please don't repeatedly and redundantly present the intent for brevity if your true intent is to promote an ongoing list of things; if at all, just say "all that [you] will say is" and keep going until you run out of things to say -- we will get the picture.

[Mazimer]

*All that I am going to say* or *All I will say*

Use your language, man; we didn't evolve for several hundred thousand years for you to sound like a twat. Even just use proper contractions! We (i.e. human beings) did already think of and establish a system for doing that, and you are most welcome to discover and use them and look like you aren't a degenerate fool. And what is more, please don't repeatedly and redundantly present the intent for brevity if your true intent is to promote an ongoing list of things; if at all, just say "all that [you] will say is" and keep going until you run out of things to say -- we will get the picture.

Oxford English Professor at work. Have a cookie OEP. A chillpill perhaps :3. Some warm milk. A cup'o'tea?

 

No, but seriously

 

higher damage per pellet, higher capacity to clear out larger groups, sobek is now the crowd killer, while hek is the heavy units killer (alltho sobek doesnt actually lagg behind that much, higher base dmg per pellet does give it better damage dropoff capabilities)

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mazimer

[taiiat]

higher damage per pellet, higher capacity to clear out larger groups, sobek is now the crowd killer, while hek is the heavy units killer (alltho sobek doesnt actually lagg behind that much, higher base dmg per pellet does give it better damage dropoff capabilities)

my extreme concerns, the enemies Hek kills with one shot, Sobek is going to kill with 2-3, and at more average levels (not lv 100 or anything), it's going to be 2, usually. 

 

sure, i like the super high extra damage, but it feels quite OP. i'm literally doing 1000 AP damage per shot, along with the rest of the base and other elementals. it's sort've like a sniper rifle with some pistols taped on. and when you pull the trigger it fires the rifles, and the pistols. so you have your massive Alpha damage in there, and the little bits of extra stuff. but mostly that absurd Alpha damage. 

 

yes, other shotguns have 150% AP as well, but the lower damage makes for not even close to that 1000 AP damage. 

it feels a bit much. 

[Damagedice]

Dude, the gun holds twenty freaking shots unmodded. The whole purpose of reloading is supposed to be the downtime inbetween. Thats virtually the only drawback of projectile weapons in the first place; how many shots, for how long, how does it reload. Every (gun) in the game has some type of reload. Even if the game is high paced, is it seriously that hard to, after twenty shots that you probably didnt even fire with the button held entirely down, take cover or even run away? Are you a loki soloing t3 void??
In exchange for many shots, over a long duration, and high power, it reloads slow! why is everyone trying to strip this gun of any weaknesses. This buff already took it out of the trash zone, where it would have taken half of your reserve ammo to kill like five dudes.  Now its really good at plucking off many individuals, better than the boar (I think that one did better for panic spamming a heavy gunner or ancient) or the hek (good for pounding those same targets but with controlled headshots).

De is the only company I know that gives this much of a crap to change something based on what people say. Don't overstep it. It went from the gun legitimately being bad to everyone acting like children! Everything has a weakness. Boar is weak, uses ammo fast. Hek is powerful, has few shots. Strun is balanced, this gun reloads slow. Snipetrons are bad at close range, the list goes on.

I swear, if anyone replies to this with simply "But teh reload 2 long" Or "But de made it luk like dubbl brrl," well, there'd go my faith in everyone.

[Mazimer]

my extreme concerns, the enemies Hek kills with one shot, Sobek is going to kill with 2-3, and at more average levels (not lv 100 or anything), it's going to be 2, usually. 

 

sure, i like the super high extra damage, but it feels quite OP. i'm literally doing 1000 AP damage per shot, along with the rest of the base and other elementals. it's sort've like a sniper rifle with some pistols taped on. and when you pull the trigger it fires the rifles, and the pistols. so you have your massive Alpha damage in there, and the little bits of extra stuff. but mostly that absurd Alpha damage. 

 

yes, other shotguns have 150% AP as well, but the lower damage makes for not even close to that 1000 AP damage. 

it feels a bit much. 

lolwut, why use HEK over long range at all

or any shotgun for that matter

 

shotguns are made for one thing:

 

pull the trigger, blow their head off

 

if you're 2,3-shotting mobs with shotguns at medium range, switch to a latron or a gorgon/supra, you'll do better.

 

now before you go all "hurr fragile frame, durr" on me, that's your goddamn problem, get rhino, put rhino skin on him, enjoy shotguns for what they are, nuke launchers without the nasty kickback of suicide by ogris

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mazimer

[taiiat]

lolwut, why use HEK over long range at all

or any shotgun for that matter

if you read my information, which you did not, i'm saying that now Sobek is as effective at long range as a Latron. even more so, maybe. Latron takes 2/3 shots to kill an ancient at long range, right? well Sobek can now do the same thing, at medium/long range. 

 

i said it's OP. not underpowered needing another buff, it's TOO powerful now. i get that it's supposed to be a more accurate mediumish ranged shotgun, but it's ridiculously effective. i have no problem with surviving, but i'm not going to run up to enemies and shoot them at point blank when i'm comparing it's long range effectiveness to other weapons. and Sobek is now effectively a sniper rifle. it's ridiculous. 

if it stays this way, oh well. i can't fix it, only Digital Extremes can. i'll live with it if Sobek is never changed again, but note that Sobek is literally the ONLY shotgun to use now. it's better at everything than all the other shotguns.

 

it outperforms them at all ranges, against all enemies, and in all situations. it doesn't burst as much damage but fires decently fast and for a long time, it doesn't have as much Alpha damage but each pellet hits like an asteroid and it's very accurate and shoots for a long time, it's not as ammo efficient but there's plenty of shotgun ammo anyways, it's reload time is long but when it's shooting 'pop pop pop, watch them drop', it's simply superior. the ONLY disadvantages is ammunition efficiency and reload time. but it makes up for it.

Edited July 17, 2013 by taiiat

[DirkDeadeye]

Dude, the gun holds twenty freaking shots unmodded. The whole purpose of reloading is supposed to be the downtime inbetween. Thats virtually the only drawback of projectile weapons in the first place; how many shots, for how long, how does it reload. Every (gun) in the game has some type of reload. Even if the game is high paced, is it seriously that hard to, after twenty shots that you probably didnt even fire with the button held entirely down, take cover or even run away? Are you a loki soloing t3 void??

In exchange for many shots, over a long duration, and high power, it reloads slow! why is everyone trying to strip this gun of any weaknesses. This buff already took it out of the trash zone, where it would have taken half of your reserve ammo to kill like five dudes.  Now its really good at plucking off many individuals, better than the boar (I think that one did better for panic spamming a heavy gunner or ancient) or the hek (good for pounding those same targets but with controlled headshots).

De is the only company I know that gives this much of a crap to change something based on what people say. Don't overstep it. It went from the gun legitimately being bad to everyone acting like children! Everything has a weakness. Boar is weak, uses ammo fast. Hek is powerful, has few shots. Strun is balanced, this gun reloads slow. Snipetrons are bad at close range, the list goes on.

I swear, if anyone replies to this with simply "But teh reload 2 long" Or "But de made it luk like dubbl brrl," well, there'd go my faith in everyone.

 

I lost you at "Boar is weak" Has double the crit rate, double the rate of fire, still scales better with mods due to having 2 more pellets..regardless of the 24 less damage it does overall.

[RevenantPhoenix]

I liked it better yesterday too. Default reload speed now is really bad for a weapon that- despite its accuracy- is going to be carried into close-quarter-combat.

 

The last thing you want to do when you're surrounded by enemies is spend a gazillion years reloading.

 

Besides, I feel like the speed+accuracy of the weapon is what makes it shine instead of raw damage. 60 damage was perfect. Now it's like it's trying to be like other shotguns and it's not working out very well imo.

Edited July 17, 2013 by SnazzyWolf

[DoMe_22_]

Just stop...

[Boondorl]

I like how apparently the Hek is now the go-to shotgun for comparison. "More powerful than the Hek? Better nerf it!"

 

@(*()$ please. The Boar has a higher DPS than the Hek, should we nerf the Boar now to? Maybe we should make it mastery level 5 and need 20 formas and 30,000 nuerodes and your soul to craft, because hey, Hek is clearly the only shotgun! It MUST be the best! No other options!

 

This gun is trying to be a mixture between a Boar and a Hek. As such, we must compare it to both. The be as effective as the Boar, the Sobek would have to deal 144 damage every shot over 6 pellets. To be as effective as a Hek it would have to do 138-ish damage a shot over 7 pellets. Both the Hek and Boar triumph over both the Sobek's intended purposes: an auto shotgun with single target damage and crowd control. It fires slow enough to the point where it's really not even an automatic shotgun, just a semi auto where you can hold down the trigger. Not to mention the reload nerf destroyed the entire point of this gun that DE had established: to be a spray and pray shotty with a large clip and short reload. Now it's a "choose your shots wisely" type shotgun because of the @(*()$ 4 second reload. I have zero reason to use this gun.

 

Let's face it, this shotgun had S#&$ty idea written all over it. We already have Boar for an auto shotty and Hek for an assault shotgun. Just rework the damn gun and make it a DooM-style double barrel shotgun.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Boondorl

[__Kanade__]

It only makes sense for the Sobek to have the longest reload time because it has the largest clip size of all the shotguns. HEK's clip is too small, Strun is what is it is, and Boar I've never used nor do I care to use. The Sobek is fine as it is, it doesn't need anymore nerfs or buffs. It's at least worth the 5 Neurodes now.

[NalkorRN]

Are you just making things up for attention or what? It still reloads ages faster than every other shotgun in the game. And I have dozens of tactical pump mods, they are uncommon, so "good luck" is laughable.

Dude, the Sobek is the slowest reloading shotgun in the game. The Strun reloads in 3.0 seconds, the Sobek is now 3.5 seconds. That's barely faster than the Gorgon.

[NalkorRN]

It only makes sense for the Sobek to have the longest reload time because it has the largest clip size of all the shotguns. HEK's clip is too small, Strun is what is it is, and Boar I've never used nor do I care to use. The Sobek is fine as it is, it doesn't need anymore nerfs or buffs. It's at least worth the 5 Neurodes now.

Magazine, and technically it depends on how they're loaded. If it's shell-by-sheel, then yeah, but if it's a magazine/drum-fed mechanism, then the amount of shells inside doesn't impact how quickly someone removes the empty drum/magazine and puts a new one on.

Remember folks, a clip is used as part of a magazine, and the magazine is what gets reloaded/replaced!

[__Kanade__]

It's way to small, the picture on the blueprint was misleading as well as the concept art, here I was thinking it was going to have a comparable size to the Snipetron since double barreled shotguns have quite the long barrel. At the very least, make it alittle bit longer than the HEK. 

[EclecticDragon]

Sniptron is way to big. Maybe something like the Hek or the strun but not more then that

[Lady_Khaos]

Maybe not long but it is certainly small. :/

[Damagedice]

I lost you at "Boar is weak" Has double the crit rate, double the rate of fire, still scales better with mods due to having 2 more pellets..regardless of the 24 less damage it does overall.

In the grand scheme of shotguns, its tradeoff is a lower damage per shot. Thats the point i was making

[SoulEchelon]

I shouldin't have to cram a tactical pump into this gun to make it serviceable.

 

Using your way of thinking, no one should have to "cram" Serration in any of their rifles to make it "serviceable". Shouldn't need to "cram" any mods that boost default stats to make them "serviceable" for higher level areas.

 

Sobek needed a damage buff. Everyone except a tiny handful of people agrees with this. But that meant it needed to be rebalanced in some way - thus a slightly longer reload. DPS? who gives a F*** about DPS? You still do high and consistent damage with that 20 ammo per magazine. You act like RELOADING destroys a weapon. Welp, guess Gorgon is a failure of a weapon too, right? Boltor has a relatively long reload unmodded. Guess that weapon sucks too. /sarcasm

Edited July 17, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Baigan]

To shoot a Hek 20 times, you'd need to reload 5 times.

To shoot the Sobek 20 times, you'd need to reload ONCE.

 

I think it's fine, specially if you take into consideration reload mods. AND magazine mods. Can't analyze it in a vacuum.

I'll give ya that tho, reloading after shooting once or twice like I'm used to makes pressing that button feel like a COMMITMENT.

[SoulEchelon]

Dude, the Sobek is the slowest reloading shotgun in the game. The Strun reloads in 3.0 seconds, the Sobek is now 3.5 seconds. That's barely faster than the Gorgon.

 

Strun base clipsize = 6.0

Strun base reload speed = 3.0

 

Sobek base clipsize = 20.0

Sobek base reload speed = 3.5

 

By going clipsize and reload speed alone for DPS....Sobek wins. Of course going on spike damage on a single, normal mob target, Strun wins. But constant sustained fire against stronger mobs/bosses? Sobek. Both shotguns are viable for their certain strengths. But either way, you (and a few others) are sitting here arguing that a .5 reload speed difference makes this shotgun "unusable" when it has over 3 times the clip of the Strun, does about 4/5ths damage per shot of the strun, and has a much, much lower delay between shots.. *rolls eyes*

Edited July 17, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[LazyKnight]

Can people please get the seer so we can have a new topic to talk about? Sobek is useable if DE want to do more its optional. I like the Sobek now and that saying a lot, I haven't bothered with shotguns other than HEK and bronco