Ronyn Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hello. The problem with Sobek can't be solved by simple number switching because it's designed wrong in two ways. 1: Warframe had three shotguns previously, Strun the standard all arounder, Boar the rapid fire auto and Hek the heavy hitter with low ammo. Trying to make the sobek a rapid fire shotgun is redundant...what makes more sense is to come at it from a different way. either A-Burst fire: shoots two shots then cycles. This makes it hit harder than other shotguns but will have a delay between each shot. B-Wide Fire: Shoots in large cone effect then cycles. This makes it good for hitting multiple enemies at close range but will have a delay between each shot. Either way, burst fire or wide fire, it becomes the unique hitter with good ammo but time in between shots. That gives it a more unique niche in the arsenal. 2: The sobek looks like a double barreled shotgun. This aesthetic implies power shots to most people yet you've chosen to go with a weaker per shot mechanic. This is counter intuitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonnan180 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 pretty sure the reload is faster than hek, and it only has 4 shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 pretty sure the reload is faster than hek, and it only has 4 shots HEK has almost 3 times the pellets, does more damage and SCALES much better.. In essence, one shot of the hek is 2-4 of the sobek. And the HEK is around 4s, Sobek is around 6s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 @Drakonnan180I have timed it *multiple* times with a stopwatch.The sobek now takes 4 seconds to reload, hek around 2.5.This is after multiple repeated testing of both weapons WITHOUT tactical pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) People just always need something to complain about don't they Edited July 16, 2013 by TheCuddlyRoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 People just always need something to complain about don't they The game is in beta, and we're in a feedback forum. You're the one complaining about what you perceive as complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Sobek is fine now 100% useable I do not care if it stronger than HEK its lethal now, I can use it if I want too. Burst is the most important thing for shot guns and I can always reload when I am moving. I am happy DE is buffing they could have just ignored this totally and left it at 40 damage. If they change reload later or don't that up to them I am just happy it is getting attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonnan180 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 @Drakonnan180 I have timed it *multiple* times with a stopwatch. The sobek now takes 4 seconds to reload, hek around 2.5. This is after multiple repeated testing of both weapons WITHOUT tactical pump. HEK has almost 3 times the pellets, does more damage and SCALES much better.. In essence, one shot of the hek is 2-4 of the sobek. And the HEK is around 4s, Sobek is around 6s. Seriously? hmmm it feels like to same to me, maybe i just havent used my Hek in awhile. I do realize Hek would do more dmg per shot but sobek with a 20 clip would make up for that i geuss. (maybe not once theyre both fully modded) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeannachaidh Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) People just always need something to complain about don't they I wasn't complaining before now. I was very pleased with the first fix. It wasn't a unique weapon like people would expect and were hoping for from a 4th shotgun being added to the arsenal, but it was functional and didn't leave you having to run away long enough to reload. What is more and to clarify, I am generally very pleased with everything that the developers of this game have done, said that they are doing now, and have told us they are thinking about doing in the more distant future; I would not have purchased Master Founder if I thought the game was a general assortment of S#&$ty choices made by a motley band of nitwits, would I? No, I have one particular qualm with regards to a change to something that I was fond of, and suddenly I am painted some base and foul creature lurking about in the depth of the interwebs in search of an answer to that most socially annoying of questions: "What can I $#*(@ about next?"... Edited July 16, 2013 by TheSeannachaidh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 @Drakonnan180It takes so long to reload the Sobek now that even though they buffed its damager per shot its overal DPS went down.They should have just left it at 2 seconds for a reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondorl Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 6 seconds. Wha....6? Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theammostore Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Why is it so accurate when shotguns have a huge damage falloff..? Ask the HEk that same question Why is it full auto, with a base fire rate that's as slow as the lex? So you can be more ammo effiecient Why is it a double barreled shotgun that fires automatically? Why not? It still has 4 pellets so it will not scale as well as the rest of the shotguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Seriously? hmmm it feels like to same to me, maybe i just havent used my Hek in awhile. I do realize Hek would do more dmg per shot but sobek with a 20 clip would make up for that i geuss. (maybe not once theyre both fully modded) It only needed to have 80 damage to have the same sustained DPS when it reload time was hotfix at 9.3 levels and 100 should make it pretty close even with the longer reload time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Wha....6? Are you serious? I have tested it quite a few times with a stopwatch and its actually 4. That is still longer than any of the other shotguns though. And kills one of the things that made the Sobek good. Edited July 16, 2013 by Tsukinoki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Wha....6? Are you serious? I went by the Mississippi system..and I've had a lot of hard cider today.. BUT ITS PRETTY LONG DAMNIT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I went by the Mississippi system..and I've had a lot of hard cider today.. BUT ITS PRETTY LONG DAMNIT! If I could I would edit the page on the wiki so that it reflected its current value of 4 seconds....sadly I cant do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARGAMES Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 usually a higher ammo per clip means it'll take longer to reload. so to me it makes sense, maybe not 4-5 seconds but ehh, come on, it has 20 ammo in a clip. or well it might be 12 now, still not 4 or 6 ammo you know, like the hek and strun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 @WARGAMESThe problem now is that its nearly impossible to reload at the ranges that you have to use it at for its damage to not fall off.Before you didnt have that issue and now we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Sobek is just broken now. it's the most powerful shotgun in Warframe now. it has higher per pellet damage than Hek, and similar dropoff amounts. so now it's better at long range than Hek. wut. 100 dmg @ 4 proj is way over the top. 70 @ 5 proj is probably perfect. 75 dmg, maybe. 100 dmg @ 4 proj makes each projectile 25 dmg. what this means is, it has 5 dmg more per pellet than Hek. meaning the damage dropoff affects Sobek less than Hek. also, the reload speed is pretty annoying. the reload was fine as it was before, i understand the (3.5sec?) longer reload is to balance 100 dmg, but we didn't need that. so if we bring it back down a bit, and increase to 5 proj as the rule of thumb for shotguns is 5x the impact force of a rifle... but yeah, Sobek is really too powerful now. also, the way we've changed artificacts now, is... odd. not what i expected at all. i expected a polarity remove, rather than free bonus points, lol! Edited July 16, 2013 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazimer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Please make a hek and use it then post again. :P i'll be grabbing my popcorn while u do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeannachaidh Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Please make a hek and use it then post again. :P i'll be grabbing my popcorn while u do it Who are you addressing in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisp Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 4 seconds. Let's do some calculations! 100 damage, 250 average dps. Time to empty clip still 8 seconds. 12 seconds until the gun is ready to fire again. Sustained DPS is... (250 x8)/12 = 167 rounded out. Now compare that to Hek's 141, and the Sobek pulls slightly ahead in case of things you can't kill in 6 Hek shots (but can in 30 Sobek shots) as well as having less overall downtime. Does this compare to the Hek? Well, only for the extremely weak or extremely strong mobs. Weak mobs that can be killed in one hit will be cleaned up more efficiently by the Sobek. Very situational, but at least it has a use now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Who are you addressing in this? probably trying to tell me the math is wrong. per pellet, Sobek does do more damage at extreme ranges than Hek, due to 5dmg more per pellet. Hek has more pellets and does more damage sure, but at extreme ranges, Sobek will still deal more damage than Hek. just throwing up some example numbers, if Hek does 2 dmg per pellet at range X, Sobek will probably deal 5 or 6 dmg per pellet. this makes mods scale better, so it's going to deal more damage per pellet. the fact that Hek technically still does more damage per shot is irrelevant, because at medium / long range, i'm currently dealing ~260 AP damage. that's ridiculous. the AP damage alone is killing everything. it's a problem. the higher damage scales the 150% AP bonus really high. all shotguns have the same bonuses, but having the highest damage per pellet really cranks this up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondorl Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 usually a higher ammo per clip means it'll take longer to reload. so to me it makes sense, maybe not 4-5 seconds but ehh, come on, it has 20 ammo in a clip. or well it might be 12 now, still not 4 or 6 ammo you know, like the hek and strun. That's not how reloading works. Other assault rifles with 30-round magazines would take 5 seconds to reload if it were. Mag goes out, new mag goes in. It's not like you're reloading each shell individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeannachaidh Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) That's not how reloading works. Other assault rifles with 30-round magazines would take 5 seconds to reload if it were. Mag goes out, new mag goes in. It's not like you're reloading each shell individually. Particularly when the magazine appears to be a drum, which would presumably be inserted into and extricated from the weapon with an ease reminiscent of an old N64 cartridge, and assuming I am a ninja for whom throwing 3 knives per second at an improbable velocity is common practice, I don't see myself struggling overlong reloading my 1990s Nintendo Gun... Edited July 17, 2013 by TheSeannachaidh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now