Melee Rivens and Negative Range -- Testing Complete!

[SenorClipClop]

Hey Tenno,

Title, basically. I recently picked up a Riven for the Kogake that has some really, really nice stats, but also will have -132% range when maxed out. Has anyone experienced what this modifier will do to a weapon's hitbox? Will I still be able to deal damage at all? Will it just be less than half of the current (already tiny) range of these sparring weapons?

I'm going to work toward testing this out right now, but if someone's already found the answer it'd be nice to before I go investing too much attention into this Riven. Please don't provide conjecture, only personally tried and tested results.

EDIT: Testing Complete! See below in Best Answer for details.

Thanks.  

Edited July 4, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[SenorClipClop]

Hey Tenno,

So I finally picked up a Kogake again and got to testing my Riven mod with its -132% Range. I tried Grim Fury on it, but Brutal Tide seems like a better fit due to the other stats on the Riven, and the Stance matched the Kogake's polarity. On to testing!

All the standard punches seemed to work okay. However, I ran into some problems with the kicks. The leg sweeps in a couple of the combos were inconsistent. The flashy Jackie Chan-style overhead kick in the Rushing Fire combo did not connect with enemies at all. I wasn't bummed about missing out on the overhead kick beyond it looking weird, but the inconsistent leg sweeps bothered me, since they set up Finishers and my Riven has a fat heap of added Finisher damage. Not wanting to let the mostly-sweet Riven roll go, I've found that simply adding the Reach mod (+60% Range) pretty well corrects the issue. With both the Riven and Reach (should be around just -70% Range), all the kicks seem to be hitting reliably. There might be a bit of a reduced hitbox on the charge attack (Rise from Ashes), but since the Kogake have such a tiny base range I have to get right up in the enemy's business with or without the Riven, so it's hard to tell. I'm getting it about three quarters of the time with and without the Riven.

Conclusion: in the Kogake's case, some of the moves are adversely affected by greater than 100% negative Range, but it seems to me that a negative percent short of -100% (in my case -70%) has little to no adverse effect. The hitbox is probably shorter, but the standard Range of the weapon is so short already that I don't really see any difference in gameplay. It doesn't hit behind me, which I'm glad for.

I might cycle the mod once or twice for fun, and I'll still have to do some hard-core comparing once I get some Forma into the mix. Since I need Reach on it, is it worth to have two mods take up slots for the benefits of the Riven? Given that it gives a huge boost to Finisher damage, a sizable Crit chance buff (about 60% crit chance with the Riven and a True Steel) and nearly-free Channeling (cost of 1), it might just be worth. I'm certainly going to have fun playing with it.

Edited July 4, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Xekrin]

3 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Please don't provide conjecture, only personally tried and tested results.

So uhm, you have it, why not max it out and test it and let us know?

[SenorClipClop]

10 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

So uhm, you have it, why not max it out and test it and let us know?

In progress as we speak, but I got rid of my Kogake a while ago. It'll still be half a day before I craft my replacement, and so I won't be able to test it until tomorrow. Since I have no other way of testing what happens when you mod -132% Range on a weapon, I was hoping who had already tested melee negative range could let me know (if anyone's done so, anyway). In the eventuality that it renders the weapon incapable of dealing damage (knock wood), I'd either cycle it now or wait for a possible patch to fix this stat from occurring.

In other words, I'm making that journey now, but if someone has already made it and seen what's there, describing it to me could help me decide if I want to go to that place or elsewhere.

Edited July 4, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Xion]

Looking forward to your tests... seeing as you already have the roll on your riven.

[Elvangreen]

1 minute ago, SenorClipClop said:

In progress as we speak, but I got rid of my Kogake a while ago. It'll still be half a day before I get it, and so I won't be able to test it until tomorrow. Since I have no other way of testing what happens when you mod -132% Range on a weapon, I was hoping who had already tested melee negative range could let me know. In the eventuality that it renders the weapon incapable of dealing damage (knock wood), I'd either cycle it now or wait for a possible patch to fix this stat from occurring.

In other words, I'm making that journey now, but if someone has already made it and seen what's there, describing it to me could help me decide if I want to go to that place or elsewhere.

^ we still have over -100% flight speed, damage, and multishot.... i dont think its gonna get patched.

[JudgeXion]

Someone in my discord once posted a negative range weapon, he was standing inside the opponent and missed almost every attack, only the slam attack hit the enemy. 

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by JudgeXion

[Gamma745]

You can try to PM this guy, as he also have a negative range melee Riven. Don't know whether or not he have already tested it.

 

[Xekrin]

12 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

In progress as we speak, but I got rid of my Kogake a while ago.

Apologies as you weren't very clear before.  The way I read it was you had the weapon and riven and were undecided if you wanted to max it out yourself and were waiting for advice instead.

On the plus side, a high likelihood the weapon will perform better with a riven so rebuilding it is still worth it.  Assuming you liked the weapon type before this at all.

Melee rivens are still fairly rare and I imagine any negative stats are just immediately rerolled, and a vast majority don't even bother with forums, so you may be the first who can conclusively test it either way.

 

 

[Mk.1]

Perhaps it will hit enemies behind you?

[SenorClipClop]

34 minutes ago, Mk_1 said:

Perhaps it will hit enemies behind you?

Lol, I've been thinking about this.It's possible. I'm hoping not, since the mod I have also boosts Finisher damage. Although, I'm curious to see how backwards-hitbox finishers would look.

1 hour ago, Xekrin said:

On the plus side, a high likelihood the weapon will perform better with a riven so rebuilding it is still worth it.  Assuming you liked the weapon type before this at all.

Melee rivens are still fairly rare and I imagine any negative stats are just immediately rerolled, and a vast majority don't even bother with forums, so you may be the first who can conclusively test it either way.

It's a pretty strong Riven besides! It has +124% Channeling Efficiency, +170% Finisher Damage, +133.5 Crit Chance, and of course the backwards Range. Kogake was decent (I was a fan of its minimalist design), with any luck the Riven will get me back into it. However this goes, I'm excited to  potentially discover something new here. Science!

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, JudgeXion said:

Someone in my discord once posted a negative range weapon, he was standing inside the opponent and missed almost every attack, only the slam attack hit the enemy.

Hmm, my search might not be a fruitful one, then. Any idea what the specific stat was on the weapon? Greater than -99%?