Damage 2.0 Refined Mod Linking (Dam 2.1?)

[SyberSmoke]

For a long while now there has been talk of a Damage 3.0.  And idea have been bantered around and the devs have thought about it, tested it (I did like the idea of ditching Serration and other base must haves frankly), and are still ponder with their lemon powered thinking caps on.  But why do we need to go to an entirely new and drastic system when may be we can just evolve the system we have right now.

Below is an example of what we have now.  The pips indicating how the game connects like damage types limiting the potential combinations.

Spoiler

But the thing is, is why does it need to be like this?  Why shouldn't the player be allowed to do something more like this:

Spoiler

My thought is simple.  Allow the player to choose when damage mods link to one another.  This way we can better refine our damage types into more combinations.  Now there would be rules, you can not say, tell the game to not combine Thermite Rounds with Cryo Rounds...so you will always get blast instead of Fire and Cold damage individually.  But I think it could be reasonable to divorce Hellfire from Thermite rounds (in the above example) so the player can have a Radiation/Blast build.

This would necessitate either and interface, or some rules we would need to use to determine how the mods interact.  Buttons could work, the player would be presented with links showing what moss are combining.  Then clicking on the link would divorce that mod as long as they follow a set of rules.

Another option would be to have placement order determine connection.  In the images above, by not placing the two fire mode adjacent to one another, the link will be broken when the Cryo Rounds is added next to the Thermite Rounds mod.  This may not be as obvious for new players though as they would not have as many mods to combine early on and could spark confusion when their damage types change unexpectedly.

Any way this is my thought on what could be a small change that would have a large effect to how we apply damage to our weapons right now.  Thank you for reading this far and have a good day.

[peterc3]

Corrosive and Viral. This is why your idea cannot happen.

[SyberSmoke]

Why not?  I mean really...why not?  If it is a possibility then why couldn't it also be a possibility that tanky (spongy) enemies could also have new protections to defeat such combinations?  For every sword there is a new defense.  For every new defense, there is a new perfect sword.

[Glitch_Kitten]

34 minutes ago, SyberSmoke said:

Why not?  I mean really...why not?  If it is a possibility then why couldn't it also be a possibility that tanky (spongy) enemies could also have new protections to defeat such combinations?  For every sword there is a new defense.  For every new defense, there is a new perfect sword.

Why add more variables for DE to consider? they've already stated that their goal for damage 3.0 is instead enemy 2.0, more intelligent enemies, keeping the rifraf trashmobs and adding more elite units to spice up gameplay.

I understand where you're coming from but a change like this I feel is unnecessary and would only complicate the steps needed to be taken with DE's proposed enemy solution. Corrosive and viral is a very, very powerful combination, which is why only 3 (correct me if im wrong) weapons are capable of achieving such a feat and as such deal relatively low damage

[Xekrin]

43 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Corrosive and Viral. This is why your idea cannot happen.

You really cannot make that claim based on that combo alone

 I mean we have slash and viral which is immensely strong together.  We are simply limited by a system that doesn't have much flexibility.  Unless DE explicitly says no, never ever, there is always possibilities for improvement in the future.

2 minutes ago, Glitch_Kitten said:

Corrosive and viral is a very, very powerful combination, which is why only 3 (correct me if im wrong) weapons are capable of achieving such a feat and as such deal relatively low damage

Scourge can do it and its fairly powerful, with an aoe and high status.  Sure it has low critical but that doesn't mean much with all the ways we have to raise crit chance artificially. Damage 3.0 may be about enemy AI but that doesn't  mean we shouldn't have more control over our mods in the future.

6 minutes ago, Glitch_Kitten said:

Why add more variables for DE to consider?

Don't worry most suggestions like this are mostly ignored by DE anyway and even if they have such a thing planned, it'll be months and months away.  I doubt it would even be considered until long after Damage 3.0 (2.5 really) is finished, which probably won't happen until Christmas.

No reason to stifle imaginative suggestions just because it might never happen or complicate matters.
.

[SyberSmoke]

1 minute ago, Glitch_Kitten said:

Why add more variables for DE to consider? they've already stated that their goal for damage 3.0 is instead enemy 2.0, more intelligent enemies, keeping the rifraf trashmobs and adding more elite units to spice up gameplay.

I understand where you're coming from but a change like this I feel is unnecessary and would only complicate the steps needed to be taken with DE's proposed enemy solution. Corrosive and viral is a very, very powerful combination, which is why only 3 (correct me if im wrong) weapons are capable of achieving such a feat and as such deal relatively low damage

Fair points really.  But in the grand scheme it would not matter.  I mean any player with a year or two under their belt and a good amount of effort can make a god weapon out of anything...even the arguably piss poor Lato.  Yeah it got a buff, but it is still bad.  This is both a wonderful thing and bad thing to this game.

I mean then there is the opposite side, power creep for both players and mobs is a thing we all know to be true.  So while DE is now making a concerted effort to work on that...it also depends on where they go.

Personally I could see the above suggestion, but also revisions to enemies.  Things where an enemy like...say the Nox, is immune to viral, and buffs nearby allies to be the same.  I can see remaking a number of enemies in the game like the Bombard, Heavy Gunner, Technician, and others to use some of the ideas that the new Ambulas employed.  Where instead of relying on sheer armor value and immunity, they are given armor pieces you have to shoot through.  AND while they are "Sealed" they are resistant to some types of damage (like wearing a hazmat suit).

Any way in the end I believe that given the right player, any combination of damage would be OP in the right situation.  But even now it behooves DE to make sure each mission is not something we need a single damage set to play through.  Where there could be times we need one on our main, others where another is better (secondary) and we plan for those contingencies instead.

[peterc3]

29 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

You really cannot make that claim based on that combo alone

 I mean we have slash and viral which is immensely strong together.  We are simply limited by a system that doesn't have much flexibility.  Unless DE explicitly says no, never ever, there is always possibilities for improvement in the future.

I can and did make that claim. Armor and health are part of the only things keeping us from going unlimited time in endless missions, totally steamrolling anything DE could throw at us outside invulnerability phases or puzzles. Viral halves health, corrosive removes armor. To get one you can't have the other, if you want both you need something outside the one weapon to do so: Corrosive Projection, making your other weapons the other one, using abilities, etc. I can state with 100% certainty that they would never allow you to be able to mod for both outside weapons that do one innately.

[Xekrin]

12 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

I can state with 100% certainty

My apologies, I was not aware I was speaking to the president and CEO of Digital Extremes.  Perhaps changing your name to [DE]ListensToMeOnly that would help when you make 100% certainty facts of written in stone truths that will never ever ever be refuted ever.

Its like speaking to royalty, I swear, I'm honored.

[SyberSmoke]

Just now, Xekrin said:

My apologies, I was not aware I was speaking to the president and CEO of Digital Extremes.  Perhaps changing your name to [DE]ListensToMeOnly that would help when you make 100% certainty facts of written in stone truths that will never ever ever be refuted ever.

Its like speaking to royalty, I swear, I'm honored.

Hey hey there, Keep it civil.

@peterc3Yes, Viral halves health.  Yes, Corrosive strips armor...eventually.  But they are not the be all and end all.  I mean Blast makes sure enemies never get up, Radiation turns enemies against each other.  Magnetic halves shields...etc etc.  Just because it is optimal for a single type of enemy...may be, does not mean there are not other paths people would take.

And if my memory is not completely gone yet, corrosive really is not that effective in many cases as it takes a ton of procs to really get armor off of many heavily armored enemies.  In those cases it is far better to just bypass it all and go to slash and bleed effects then to try and strip the armor any way.  So no, it is not 100% guaranteed.  It could become a thing, and then it would have to be balanced assuming the suggestion does come to be (even I am not hopeful of that one).

But in the end...people will choose what they think works best.  Like say a Blast/Corrosive mix so they can keep the enemies on the ground and unable to do damage while they strip off the armor.  Because a stunned enemy is an enemy that is not killing you.  Just sayin... :-D 

[yles9056]

@peterc3

If corrosive and viral combo is that great, then why isn't everyone using Scourge and Hema?

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

can we just sit back and imagine viral and corrosive on tigris prime, strun wraith, Kohm(this thing doesn't need 100%, its sheer fire rate makes up for it) and then ask ourselves this:

 

Are we, as tenno, ready for such awesome power? are we worthy to wield it?

if you say yes: uuuuh, i can only imagine how game breaking it'd be on those(corrosive strips 25% armor, more pellets on 100% status shotty equals more chances of that happening, i have had my tigris prime immediately strip a CHG of all her armor in one shell.)

If no: good, keep working with our OP weapons as they are, we don't need a bigger reason for unnecessary nerfs