Important: Gameplay At Risk

[TheGeoDemon]

I've noticed quite a few people quitting after update 9, So I did some asking around to find out why.

 

I've came up with 3 main reasons, that seemed to repeat like a broken record.

 

1.- Mob levels too high for young players to farm needed resources/complete alerts

2.- Mastery Restrictions and leveling frustrations

3.-  XP system that promotes specific types of grinding

 

I know this is time consuming to delve into, but I'd like to propse some changes to be considered in order to get players back into the game.

 

Higher risk= higher reward- The xp scaling of high level mobs is laughable. Killing two level 3 mobs is worth more xp than killing a level 70 mob. This is just too short of a gap.

Anytime someone forma's a weapon, they're restricted to fight the same planets over and over, because its actually slower leveling if you do higher level missions.

 

Now lets talk about XP in general, and how it affects gameplay. Say you just got a new weapon. Well, you're going to turn off your sentinel, ignore your other weapons, and obstain from using skills. You'll try to kill every single mob with the weapon you want to raise, as thats the fastest way to level it up. THIS promotes a very boring grind.

 

Take it a step further, saying you are going for mastery ranks. You can't gain ranks from forma'd weapons, so you play with the weapons you DON'T like. Is there good logic behind promoting players to use different weapons? YES. Is there good logic behind FORCING them to? NO.

 

So whats the grand solution that fixes these issues?

 

A 3-fold problem requires a 3-fold answer, but I have one to suggest.

 

Step 1- Award xp overflow. Any xp awarded to a level 30 frame could be split amongst the weapons instead, at a 1/3 or 1/4 ratio.  (sort of like how team xp works)

 

Step 2- Allow forma'd weapons to add mastery rank at a 1/2 ratio for each forma applied. So your second forma will only add 25 mastery points per level, etc.

 

Step 3- Increase the XP bonus for higher level mobs, and/or droprates. There needs to be some reason you'd want to farm pluto. right now the higher level systems are mostly ignored.

 

 

So what do you guys think? Is it possible that changes similar to these could fix some of the low-points of this great game? I really think it would allow you all to play how you want to play and still make small progress towards secondary goals. Also the XP/drop boost on high-end mobs would give reasons to use those systems, allowing more viable leveling options instead of grinding mercury and venus for each new weapon or forma applied. 

 

Any suggestions here? Keep in mind, those of you having no trouble getting things done- That doesn't change the fact people are leaving Warframe due to these reasons, and theres no harm in exploring better options.

[PsychedelicSnake]

As far as I have seen, the people joining seems to be a bit greater than the people leaving/going dormant for a while.

[Ronin666]

As far as I have seen, the people joining seems to be a bit greater than the people leaving/going dormant for a while.

 

Agree.

 

Also, would like to see facts and figures that are official, to support your claim.

Even though it may or may not be true, still need dem stats yo.

[Tsoe]

As far as I have seen, the people joining seems to be a bit greater than the people leaving/going dormant for a while.

 

also the more dificultie the mre ppl will stay on long run ,

[winters.prime]

i think a difficulty raise was much needed, the game was way to easy before and they said in the livestream that they are working on it to find the Goldilocks zone.

[Angius]

Yeah, on some of the planets difficulty is too damn high for non-hardcore players (as myself).
Dying or getting cryopod destroyed few seconds after first wave came out on Pluto is... Huh... Rage-o-genic? I mean, for some people few missions failed before they can start it equals instant ragequit.

[P1RAT3]

Higher risk= higher reward- The xp scaling of high level mobs is laughable. Killing two level 3 mobs is worth more xp than killing a level 70 mob. This is just too short of a gap.

 

Now lets talk about XP in general, and how it affects gameplay. Say you just got a new weapon. Well, you're going to turn off your sentinel, ignore your other weapons, and obstain from using skills. You'll try to kill every single mob with the weapon you want to raise, as thats the fastest way to level it up. THIS promotes a very boring grind.

 

Take it a step further, saying you are going for mastery ranks. You can't gain ranks from forma'd weapons, so you play with the weapons you DON'T like. Is there good logic behind promoting players to use different weapons? YES. Is there good logic behind FORCING them to? NO.

 

Step 1- Award xp overflow. Any xp awarded to a level 30 frame could be split amongst the weapons instead, at a 1/3 or 1/4 ratio.  (sort of like how team xp works)

 

Step 2- Allow forma'd weapons to add mastery rank at a 1/2 ratio for each forma applied. So your second forma will only add 25 mastery points per level, etc.

 

Step 3- Increase the XP bonus for higher level mobs, and/or droprates. There needs to be some reason you'd want to farm pluto. right now the higher level systems are mostly ignored.

 

 

So what do you guys think? Is it possible that changes similar to these could fix some of the low-points of this great game? I really think it would allow you all to play how you want to play and still make small progress towards secondary goals. Also the XP/drop boost on high-end mobs would give reasons to use those systems, allowing more viable leveling options instead of grinding mercury and venus KAPPA for each new weapon or forma applied. 

Here. Take all my yeps and upvotes.

[VER1]

Much of the the 'younger' generation just want win.

If they can not attain this feeling quickly in a game (which they can not in real life), they leave.

 

A big part of the 'win factor' is besting other players which is the small portion of the fan base demanding PvP.

For these short term players winning in this game comes down to mainly getting new things first before other players.

This results in forum threads about not getting nova parts after 5 runs in the first day of release.

 

Because the 'win' takes more than a day and effort they leave shortly after to go back to COD or what other generic military FPS they crawled out from where each kill is a feeling of winning.

[Cyrosage]

Much of the the 'younger' generation just want win.

If they can not attain this feeling quickly in a game (which they can not in real life), they leave.

 

A big part of the 'win factor' is besting other players which is the small portion of the fan base demanding PvP.

For these short term players winning in this game comes down to mainly getting new things first before other players.

This results in forum threads about not getting nova parts after 5 runs in the first day of release.

 

Because the 'win' takes more than a day and effort they leave shortly after to go back to COD or what other generic military FPS they crawled out from where each kill is a feeling of winning.

Pretty much sums it up.  The developers originally stated PVP was not the focus of the game and distracts from what the game is really about and the vision they've had for all these years.  I try not to jump in the threads about people complaining about how "impossible it is to get seer/nova parts" when the patch literally just dropped.  They forget how much COMPLETELY FREE sh.. stuff is in this game.  Nobody is forcing them to do anything, but they bi.. complain about not being able to get absolutely everything for free without much effort.

While OP's suggestions aren't terrible, there is some false and exaggerated claims, and the implied mass exodus of players based on asking a few friends.  This game isn't for everybody.  It is also not Pay2Win.  But I guarantee you if you take a new weapon to Vor for a couple missions, then run Kiste or Kappa you will not only see an INCREDIBLE jump in XP gained per mission, but also be able to have fun using new weapons.  I'm mastery rank 10 and that's what I've done for all new weapons.  Vor -> serration or AP -> Kappa/Kiste -> Xini ->Level 30!  Now obviously there is plenty of room to deviate as long as you don't jump in a T3 Void or a Nightmare mode (that is stupid and would also screw your teammates).  I disagree with having forma add to mastery level.  Their vision was for it to show versatility and to reward players for trying new things.  As a secondary reward, you unlock a few special weapons.  What OP is asking for bypasses that and would lead to a portion of the fan base simply using a few weapons and growing very tired of the SAME THING.  Then they'll leave.  

[xenapan]

for 3. actually.. when i forma a weapon or level a new weapon i just go grind on something with lots of mobs like kappa... no issues at all. i do with my clanmates/friends and get plenty of xp. not an issue.  Now lets address 1 and 2

 

1. Theres an "issue" with it only because of the recent difficulty changes. The whole alerts thing is intended though. its so you can bring your friends and help them through hard stuff, but otherwise new players ARENT "supposed" to be able to complete that kinda content on their own. There's nothing wrong with that. end game content is end game content. thats like complaining new players cant do t3 void stuff. its cause they arent supposed to. the issue is really just how much some planets got scaled up in terms of difficulty in the last patch.

 

2. well yes... its because its a time based progression. you have to spend time to gain mastery. thats the intention. system is working as intended.

[Madotsuki]

I support all of your suggestions except the one about giving Mastery for Forma. Right now, there is a specific "mastery cap" that the devs can balance content around, such as when to create a new Mastery Rank Test when a new rank is reachable, or what Mastery Requirements for weapons can be at. Allowing additional Mastery for Forma disturbs the balance due to potentially infinite mastery ranks. Plus, if you got additional Mastery from Forma, and the devs thus balance new content around that, players may have to Forma and re-level gear that they don't like multiple times, which is even worse than before. Also, Forma already rewards players by increasing the weapon/Frame's potential with decreased mod costs. Forma should be considered an optional "easy mode" for players, and thus content shouldn't be balanced around having to use Forma.

As irritating as it is forcing players to use gear that they dislike and have no interest of, allowing additional Mastery for Forma is much worse.

[neKroMancer]

Well, I think higher risk = higher reward concept is good. However, the reward like "higher EXP" is bollock. EXP should not even be considered as a reward since it's finite. Once your frame/gears hit 30, it no longer serve relevant purpose anymore. Credit and mods are two component that really matter in term of gameplay. Both of which are already substantially better in higher level, both quality and quantity (especially nightmare mode, those dual mods are yummy).

Some BPs can be found relatively easier in higher level based on the datamined loot table and DE's patch note. So yeah, I think in term of higher risk/reward, the game already does it job. Tweaking droprate is DE's job to make it reach a certain desirable situation. Not too much and not too little.

Forma, imo, is a bonus for certain loadout that you REALLY like. Mastery, once gained, should not be regained via Forma since the concept of mastery is to introduce player to various weapons and frames. Encouraging player to play differently in order to find the 'right' loadout and experiment on other weapons to tweak their efficacy to one's liking are the point of mastery system. Playing with the same weapon over and over again isn't what it meant to be, imo.

From my personal communication, the reason that some of my clanmates quit is the fact that there is nothing but farming. Farm for mod. Farm for BP. Farm for material. There is no real sense of accomplishment. There is no competitive aspect. There is no storyline. These are bigger problem but I think we won't see solutions until the release of PS4 version later this year.

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

Well, I think higher risk = higher reward concept is good. However, the reward like "higher EXP" is bollock. EXP should not even be considered as a reward since it's finite. Once your frame/gears hit 30, it no longer serve relevant purpose anymore. Credit and mods are two component that really matter in term of gameplay. Both of which are already substantially better in higher level, both quality and quantity (especially nightmare mode, those dual mods are yummy).

Some BPs can be found relatively easier in higher level based on the datamined loot table and DE's patch note. So yeah, I think in term of higher risk/reward, the game already does it job. Tweaking droprate is DE's job to make it reach a certain desirable situation. Not too much and not too little.

Forma, imo, is a bonus for certain loadout that you REALLY like. Mastery, once gained, should not be regained via Forma since the concept of mastery is to introduce player to various weapons and frames. Encouraging player to play differently in order to find the 'right' loadout and experiment on other weapons to tweak their efficacy to one's liking are the point of mastery system. Playing with the same weapon over and over again isn't what it meant to be, imo.

From my personal communication, the reason that some of my clanmates quit is the fact that there is nothing but farming. Farm for mod. Farm for BP. Farm for material. There is no real sense of accomplishment. There is no competitive aspect. There is no storyline. These are bigger problem but I think we won't see solutions until the release of PS4 version later this year.

This is pretty much my opinion on this too, at the moment new players join and desperately search for the 'goal' and unfortunately mastery rank seems to be the most common misconception when in reality there is no goal(yet), it's play until you've had all the fun you can.

Also you get a certain amount of overall XP for weapons even if you don't use them much, so no need to strip all of your other equipment just play a few waves on your favourite defense mission.

I will say that storyline seems to be on it's way in a month or so because they are currently making the first 'episode' of story missions and it's coming in the next big update supposedly so that's a little sooner than the ps4 release.

[fatpig84]

Yeah, on some of the planets difficulty is too damn high for non-hardcore players (as myself).

Dying or getting cryopod destroyed few seconds after first wave came out on Pluto is... Huh... Rage-o-genic? I mean, for some people few missions failed before they can start it equals instant ragequit.

 

Never seen that happened for myself.

Yes I don't use frost.

 

Palus is still doable, just got to be very smart.

[Tatersail]

you also have to remember, Every day, every single player in this game is... Arguably getting more powerful!

Each day 1000s of players get an extra 15% fire damage here and extra 15% Armor damage there.

 

in a months time the game will be alot easier for everyone

 

the Tenno      are getting Stronger!

Edited July 18, 2013 by Tatersail

[Angius]

Yeah, I'll probably need to fuse all my mods just to make my Redirection one level stronger... Amount of mods needed to upgrade high-level mods is too damn high...