Solo Is Now Dull , And Not Rewarding Enough . Get A Squad For A Far More Easy Game.

[Destro6677]

Another thing in my way are the mobile defence maps i MUST do to progress.

i cant skip them, well i can play with vets and hide. But thats no fun.

I dont see any skill involved.

Another thing i found weird, was i got invited to War. This now means i can play war, but only war.

The path back is still locked

Is this intentional, or a flaw in design?

 

Another thing in my way are the mobile defence maps i MUST do to progress.

i cant skip them, well i can play with vets and hide. But thats no fun.

I dont see any skill involved.

Another thing i found weird, was i got invited to War. This now means i can play war, but only war.

The path back is still locked

Is this intentional, or a flaw in design?

It was always that way. It generally encourages new players to ask veterans to help them unlock boss missions for future use to get their favorite frame faster.

 

I did it when I was new, and I just helped someone out yesterday.

[Liminal]

I'm trying to farm Orokin Cells in Saturn and Ceres with my maxed frames and weapons, and while it's not hard, it also isn't easy. Now I won't complain about that because I don't expect those planets to be balanced around my equipment, which is surely beyond those levels, but here's the thing: a new frame requires Orokin Cells, so does a helmet, all dual weapons, Forma, plasma swords...

I've killed those guys a lot of times and I haven't gotten anything out of them, looted every container in the map too with no results. And they are not easy maps for people that still doesn't have all the "good" mods and/or weapons (or doesn't have the mods upgraded enough). We are talking about a lv30 guy with Elites around him that can completely negate your ranged weapon attacks for 10 seconds and a lv61 guy with Elites that while not precisely hard, the mission is more than enough to murder anyone but high level players.
 

How do you expect a player that just maxed his first frame (which happens quite quickly) to make a second one, or turn his Lato into a Bolto for example if he can't reliably get Orokin Cells in an environment more suited to his equipment?
 

The fact that he can't craft a new frame also means he will advance in mastery a lot slower, which in turn means he is more limited when it comes to new weapon options.

 

Resources are not distributed properly for new (or new-ish) solo players. 2 of my friends that started playing recently are already done with their Excaliburs and primaries and they can't craft anything else because the levels where they could get the rare resources they need for that are out of their reach (difficulty-wise). Not to mention they have cold and fire damage mods, one of them has hornet strike, and that's it. No other damage mods at all.

[fatpig84]

You know, I've never seen over half of those mods, let alone at those levels (the ones that are equipped). Certainly don't drop in early levels 

 

That depends. Generally spamming defense will quickly get you these.

But I got most of them of Venus (shock / fire), Mars and Earth (Serration / Hornet Strike).

 

Unfortunately for Cryo rounds, it must be farmed at Jupiter or even Eris.

Eventually you guys will get there.

 

Now I am trying out as a newbie.

Will update later.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[JustDont]

Unfortunately for Cryo rounds, it must be farmed at Jupiter or even Eris.

Eventually you guys will get there.

I've got my first Cryo Rounds off Venus defense. ALL of them (i.e. for rifle, sidearm, and melee), as normal drops. Only shotgun Cryo was sort of late to the party.

[Destro6677]

That depends. Generally spamming defense will quickly get you these.

But I got most of them of Venus (shock / fire), Mars and Earth (Serration / Hornet Strike).

 

Unfortunately for Cryo rounds, it must be farmed at Jupiter or even Eris.

Eventually you guys will get there.

 

Now I am trying out as a newbie.

Will update later.

We support your newbie run Fatpig! Do your best!

[Nagisawa]

We support your newbie run Fatpig! Do your best!

I don't.  Because his SKILL makes him better than the newb.

[JustDont]

I don't.  Because his SKILL makes him better than the newb.

Sooooo... your point being that a "perfect" balance should be at the point where a person with NO skill and NO special equipment should be easily able to sift through all the content?

[Destro6677]

Honestly, I typed that because Fatpig is using his time to benefit the rest of us. He personally doesn't have any real reason to do so.

 

Obviously we'll have to downturn his rating of how difficult it was to fit in with the average newbie.

 

Or, we can observe Herald's playthrough diary.

[LazyKnight]

Honestly, I typed that because Fatpig is using his time to benefit the rest of us. He personally doesn't have any real reason to do so.

 

Obviously we'll have to downturn his rating of how difficult it was to fit in with the average newbie.

 

Or, we can observe Herald's playthrough diary.

The more I look at the maps layouts the more I think that defense mission should NEVER be on the main path to a boss or new planet so there is no wall that force you into on-line mode. Even someone skilled will have to switch to on-line at earth unless they just want frustration.

Edited July 20, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Nagisawa]

The more I look at the maps layouts the more I think that defense mission should NEVER be on the main path to a boss or new planet so there is no wall that force you into on-line mode. Even someone skilled will have to switch to on-line at earth unless they just want frustration.

In Pre-U8 I used to be able to do a couple of the Defenses up to stage 5, and a couple of the early planet Mobile Defensive missions.  But I can barely do some of the Exterminates, which are the easiest to do, because it doesn't have a respawn clock.

[JustDont]

The more I look at the maps layouts the more I think that defense mission should NEVER be on the main path to a boss or new planet so there is no wall that force you into on-line mode. Even someone skilled will have to switch to on-line at earth unless they just want frustration.

I'm still soloing 5 waves Palus and Xini without much problems. I don't even use skills much (occasionally on wave 5, depending on a spawn).

[LazyKnight]

I'm still soloing 5 waves Palus and Xini without much problems. I don't even use skills much (occasionally on wave 5, depending on a spawn).

I can as well easily solo defense maps( I am not going to say thing are hard or easy based on what I can do), just on earth those two defense maps in a row are what I am talking about.

[fatpig84]

Just a little update.

Vor is dead solo.

 

And I only had 20 rounds left in my Mk1 Braton and about 50+ rounds in the Lato.

At that level I have to admit he is very bullet spongy.

Most of my weapons are only level 3+ ish. So I can't fit most of the mods. I just went straight to vor as a fresh char from Terminus. I lucked out and got a trick mag (2 mod energy) for the lato earlier, so that extra bit of ammo I guess.

 

Frame exp is about level 5 now. Generally you do not want to melee Vor at all since his Cronus hits significantly harder.

 

I revived once. Yes I did die once but that was me running into a room with 3 shield lancers and 8 grineers.1 missed slash dash and I was down for the count. 

 

 

But yeah this time I forgot to SS the victory score, so my bad on this one.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[JustDont]

I can as well easily solo defense maps( I am not going to say thing are hard or easy based on what I can do), just on earth those two defense maps in a row are what I am talking about.

Well, the Grineer "reactor" defense map may be indeed somewhat hard to pass through solo. Simply because you'll be hard pressed to just constantly run around shooting at mobs that shoot at reactor.

 

But the capsule defense is quite fine.

[Nagisawa]

Just a little update.

Vor is dead solo.

 

And I only had 20 rounds left in my Mk1 Braton and about 50+ rounds in the Lato.

At that level I have to admit he is very bullet spongy.

Most of my weapons are only level 3+ ish. So I can't fit most of the mods. I just went straight to vor as a fresh char from Terminus. I lucked out and got a trick mag (2 mod energy) for the lato earlier, so that extra bit of ammo I guess.

 

Frame exp is about level 5 now. Generally you do not want to melee Vor at all since his Cronus his significantly harder.

 

I revived once. Yes I did die once but that was me running into a room with 3 shield lancers and 8 grineers.1 missed slash dash and I was down for the count. 

Back in U7, when I first faced Vor, I needed a Braton, which I had and even then took me some cheap tricks, like long range and him stuck on the geometry.

[fatpig84]

Back in U7, when I first faced Vor, I needed a Braton, which I had and even then took me some cheap tricks, like long range and him stuck on the geometry.

 

Now he does with the shield dome thing. Basically his health isn't a lot but his shields are very thick.

I will never realistically expect a new player to pull off what I did. I use cover and angles to allow me to rain on him while minimizing exposure to his teslas and lasers.

 

In fact I fought him on the platform that is before his arena (the platform where we have to walk down) because there are plenty of crates, railings and stuff to deflect tesla and laser beams.

 

 

His shields I believe is easily twice or thrice his hp level, meaning you can kill him at least twice over if not for his "lol i recharge shields now" mechanic. So for a solo new player, I acknowledge that Vor can be tough, in fact it will be a shock for new players as his mooks are complete pushovers while he isn't exactly one.

Edited July 20, 2013 by fatpig84

[LazyKnight]

Well, the Grineer "reactor" defense map may be indeed somewhat hard to pass through solo. Simply because you'll be hard pressed to just constantly run around shooting at mobs that shoot at reactor.

 

But the capsule defense is quite fine.

I only said something about those map because I had not cleared either mission and just ran it to get 100% for earth. I had skipped most of that map with a friends help so I could go to Everest and never had reason to run it(back in 7.0?). I only had a MK1-Braton when I got to earth last time so it was not worth the hassles.

Edited July 20, 2013 by LazyKnight

[impulse42]

I'm fine with the difficulty, my only problem is how enemies are bullet sponges in later planets and use up all my ammo while I solo, it makes it very frustrating and leads to my death alot on boss missions.

 

and while I know this is more of a co-op game, and I should have a squad for high level bosses, it's fairly immpossible to get a squad, let alone keep it due to the horrible matchmaking, I will have to constantly keep clicking in and out of a mission before I finally find someone to play with, even in lower planets, and then after the mission Im lucky if the game doesn't just disconnect everyone for no reason.

[Xylia]

Back in U7, when I first faced Vor, I needed a Braton, which I had and even then took me some cheap tricks, like long range and him stuck on the geometry.

 

Forgive me for some humor, but did you stick him on an isosceles triangle or an obtuse one?

[Xylia]

Sooooo... your point being that a "perfect" balance should be at the point where a person with NO skill and NO special equipment should be easily able to sift through all the content?

 

 

All the content? No.

 

Our Point, though, is that the game punishes people who are just starting warframe.

 

These vets can do "solo runs" all they want to try to prove it to us that it is "easy", but when you are new to the game, you're still learning what works and what doesn't.

 

To throw Napalms, Commanders, and Scorpions at you on your third planet is kinda ridiculous. You're lacking mods AND you're lacking the experience and skill to be able to deal with them effectively.

 

Now, by the time you get to Phorid... who is where, again? Eris? You should be skilled and have an assortment of mods. But we're not talking about Phorid. We're talking about trying to get to where you can get all the materials you need to make the GOOD weapons, which means Mercury, Venus, Earth (where they start throwing Napalms at you left-and-right), Mars, Saturn, and Jupiter. Along with some Europa for Control Modules.

 

A skilled player saying he can solo all of that, sure, yeah, whatever.

 

What about a newbie who just started Warframe yesterday and is still learning things like how mods actually work? Is he going to know that throwing Point Strike on a Braton is a waste of points (because it doesn't show you want Braton's Crit _IS_?).

 

Is he going to know that Steel Fiber on anybody but Rhino and Frost is nigh-worthless? Nope.

 

The game doesn't teach you any of this stuff. We know this stuff, which allows us to mod our weapons with some good knowledge behind it. Newbies don't. I've talked to a few newbies who have no clue what to actually put on their weapons (not to mention, the stuff ain't dropping for them). Again, I didn't get Redirection until my Excalibur was Lv15 or so. I kept dying in a few seconds when my friend was trying to help me get started and he kept going "didn't you get a redirection yet?" and I'm like "uh, no..."

Edited July 20, 2013 by Xylia

[TheHeraldXII]

Now he does with the shield dome thing. Basically his health isn't a lot but his shields are very thick.

I will never realistically expect a new player to pull off what I did. I use cover and angles to allow me to rain on him while minimizing exposure to his teslas and lasers.

 

In fact I fought him on the platform that is before his arena (the platform where we have to walk down) because there are plenty of crates, railings and stuff to deflect tesla and laser beams.

 

 

His shields I believe is easily twice or thrice his hp level, meaning you can kill him at least twice over if not for his "lol i recharge shields now" mechanic. So for a solo new player, I acknowledge that Vor can be tough, in fact it will be a shock for new players as his mooks are complete pushovers while he isn't exactly one.

He can be killed without an ammo box with unmodded Mk-1 and a Lato. The fun bit is he only regenerates shields at every 1/3 of his health he loses, so his shield works exactly the same as having more health.

As for newbie players, I think he might actually be easier than previously, in a sense. Old Vor took me a while to beat on my first run through because he'd just teleport behind me and 2-hit me. I spent more revives on my first run of Mercury than I have the entire rest of the time I've played Warframe. Now if a new player messes up they can reevaluate their tactics, bring ammo boxes, start a training montage, whatever. Back in U7 when I started I had to do that to get over the early game difficulty hump, that's not something new to U9.

Xylia, I agree that new napalms are completely borked, eith their undodgable attacks and all, but the first time I encountered them back in update 7 was early on during a Saturn mission about level 6-8, which is earlier than you fight them nowadays. If anything you get more experience before fighting them since update 9. Napalms, commanders and flameblades used to be on the second easiest planet, at levels 6-14, now you fight them on the third at levels 10-20.

[JustDont]

What about a newbie who just started Warframe yesterday and is still learning things like how mods actually work? Is he going to know that throwing Point Strike on a Braton is a waste of points (because it doesn't show you want Braton's Crit _IS_?).

 

Is he going to know that Steel Fiber on anybody but Rhino and Frost is nigh-worthless? Nope.

 

The game doesn't teach you any of this stuff. We know this stuff, which allows us to mod our weapons with some good knowledge behind it. Newbies don't. I've talked to a few newbies who have no clue what to actually put on their weapons (not to mention, the stuff ain't dropping for them). Again, I didn't get Redirection until my Excalibur was Lv15 or so. I kept dying in a few seconds when my friend was trying to help me get started and he kept going "didn't you get a redirection yet?" and I'm like "uh, no..."

What you describe, however, is not a difficulty problem. It's a learning curve problem.

Indeed, it may be a little hard to grasp on finer concepts without reading the wiki first.

 

During my "newbie" period back at U7 (I obviously haven't got any plat back then), I somewhat "grinded" early planets (repeating certain missions about 4-5 times, not more) to make sure that I'm ready for the high-level ones. Sure, back then we had low-level Saturn, and now it's not that friendly. However, Venus is still very newbie-friendly. Gradually, I learned how to deal with heavy units, how to use skills effectively, how to look for mods, etc. I was also reading wiki, though.

 

So, by the time I hit 20 hours played and got into the founders' program, I was pretty much prepared for anything up to and including Eris.

[JustDont]

He can be killed without an ammo box with unmodded Mk-1 and a Lato. The fun bit is he only regenerates shields at every 1/3 of his health he loses, so his shield works exactly the same as having more health.

I'm pretty positive that the new Vor is MUCH MORE newbie-friendly than the old one. Sure, you will die several times until you learn the ropes, but after that it's pretty easy. Old Vor was more about having good knee-jerk reaction: quickly jump away if he teleports on you, or he could pretty much OHKO you.

[TheHeraldXII]

Having a think about it, let's address the real big problems with solo play since U9.

 

Nightmare mode isn't optional which makes it harder for new players to repeat missions to get experience.

Defense missions became near impossible to solo and certain defenses block off progress. This is the big issue with solo play, when you hit a defense mission you pretty much have to go online. No arguments from me, this is a problem.

 

But what made things easier?

 

Nightmare mods give bonuses that you wouldn't otherwise have early game. Nightmare missions are also less worrying for new players than experienced players because they're scaled to an appropriate level.

Finding an artifact, any artifact is a quick power boost that can help your progression through the game.

Pressure Point, which is more common early on, got buffed.

You can get to level 14 enemies without seeing any specialists besides commanders and seekers.

 

Anything else is not an update 9 issue, Enemies spawned in droves pre 8.3, I remember because I was fighting 300-500 corpus each level. Enemies spawning too close to the players is an issue that's been around for a while, spawning them more than 1 room away and making them move in would fix that.

[Xylia]

Having a think about it, let's address the real big problems with solo play since U9.

 

Nightmare mode isn't optional which makes it harder for new players to repeat missions to get experience.

Defense missions became near impossible to solo and certain defenses block off progress. This is the big issue with solo play, when you hit a defense mission you pretty much have to go online. No arguments from me, this is a problem.

 

But what made things easier?

 

Nightmare mods give bonuses that you wouldn't otherwise have early game. Nightmare missions are also less worrying for new players than experienced players because they're scaled to an appropriate level.

Finding an artifact, any artifact is a quick power boost that can help your progression through the game.

Pressure Point, which is more common early on, got buffed.

You can get to level 14 enemies without seeing any specialists besides commanders and seekers.

 

Anything else is not an update 9 issue, Enemies spawned in droves pre 8.3, I remember because I was fighting 300-500 corpus each level. Enemies spawning too close to the players is an issue that's been around for a while, spawning them more than 1 room away and making them move in would fix that.

 

It seems like Update 9 made a lot of this worse.

 

I remember seeing Napalms on Saturn, sure. But not one per room, you'd see maybe 4-5 in an entire mission.

 

Go do 5 or so E Primes right now, one of the lowest level Earth Missions, and tell me how many Napalms per mission average, because in my experiences, I was seeing 10-20 per mission, sometimes two in the same room.

 

I have NEVER seen two Napalms in the same room in Pre-U9. Never. Not a single time.

 

Flameblades? Again, 4-5 in a single mission. Now? Every other room has one.

 

They seemed to have really jacked up the number of specialists that spawn in a mission. Mobs are now spawning closer to you than they did in U8 and before; half of the time I can't even ATTEMPT a Stealth Mission, because mobs spawn right outside of the very first door and they see/hear me before I can even react. Again, I'll repeat the story of the time I spawned in a Galleon Level with the Fan Duct Drop-Down and a Napalm shot me through the floor before I even dropped down, AND there was a Shield Lancer and 1-2 regular lancers who proceeded to kill me before I could even react to them.

 

I've never seen enemies in that starting room in Pre-U9. Never.

 

Seems like Flameblades are doing more damage these days, I don't remember them shearing off 200-some shields and eating 50-100 into your health on the 2nd or 3rd swing before. I don't remember them doing that much stinking damage.

 

Then once you get to Lv20, Burston Burston Burston, Buffed Burstons Everywhere and every grineer has shields in addition to his health. Before, Grineer would just spray Grakata bullets, some would hit some not. Now, they have hitscan Burstons that hit 1-2 bullets per burst and do a lot more damage.