What I Want To Say To The Nerf Cult Of Warframe - Understand What "niche" Means

[pdxdubin]

You know who you are.

 

This dark sect of people who want to see everything get nerfed without actually TRYING IT

Just because you are too lazy to earn these higher leveled weapons does not mean they need to be nerfed.

Some of you fail to understand just how difficult it is to obtain some of these weapons.

And as soon as you see someone out-damaging you, You just throw the OP sticker on it and complain on the forums. 

 

Now, just because you see nova in her niche, Blowing the crap out of everything, does not mean she is "OP"

It means that while the circumstances are right, She can do a lot of damage.

But in many other circumstances, She becomes cliche. 

 

Yes the ogris does 1000's of damage.  But once again THIS IS A NICHE

I doubt many of you see people using this weapon in tight hallways, Or cluttered maps.

You will kill yourself. 

The acrid?  OF COURSE ITS OVER POWERED - It requires a mastery rank of 7, and 5 mutagen masses.

Whats the point of leveling up if there is no prize at the end of the tunnel?

 

Please actually take the time to build these objects, and learn their strengths and weaknesses for yourself.

Because right now nothing seems too over powered to me.

But some things seem to be lacking, And I think our focus should be with buffing mele

Or increasing some of the other niche weapons, Like the grakata, Twin vipers, exe.. 

 

Its true that some weapons / warframes need to be fixed.

And instead of this mentality of nerfing everything that seems to be effective.

We need to focus on the weaker weapons, And bring them up to par.

 

Does this mean your braton should be as strong as a supra?

NO

 

Warframes and weapons are supposed to be different, They each need a role to play, Otherwise this entire game will become cliche

Edited July 19, 2013 by pdxdubin

[Scribbs]

someone with a head on their shoulders, thanks for the post

[Aure7]

I agree with everything but kunai... It just won't fit into this category of hard to get items, everyone recommends it for beginners to get first and EVERYONE IS USING IT MY EYES ARE SICK OF SEEING IT EVERYWHERE


and btw answering to your "They each need a role to play" 

It won't have any role if it's weaker than something

Edited July 18, 2013 by Aure7

[Zhoyzu]

I know who i am! A banshee user with preferences for weapons that throw bullets everywhere (grakata,twin  vipers, sobek)

 

 

 

LOL and yea i agree. When i play nova i only use the MP skill a few times so that they still feel important. i also rely on the team to detonate MP. Nova users also rely on the team to stay alive. otherwise shes a piece of tissue paper trying to withstand a hurricane, doesnt end well

 

this thread has my +1

[pdxdubin]

I agree with everything but kunai... It just won't fit into this category of hard to get items, everyone recommends it for beginners to get first and EVERYONE IS USING IT MY EYES ARE SICK OF SEEING IT EVERYWHERE

and btw answering to your "They each need a role to play" 

It won't have any role if it's weaker than something

 

I agree but honestly I think they need to bring all the secondary weapons up to par.

 

Because honestly I have my twin vipers formad and maxed out

 

But kunai trump them every time.

 

 

I don't think kunai is the problem I think its the lack of secondary weapons.

 

For example the acrid is over powered as fuk, But its hard to get.

 

I think that they need to release more powerful weapons actually, And leave the other secondaries there as "beginner" weapons

 

Because they work fine for starters 

[pdxdubin]

I know who i am! A banshee user with preferences for weapons that throw bullets everywhere (grakata,twin  vipers, sobek)

 

 

 

LOL and yea i agree. When i play nova i only use the MP skill a few times so that they still feel important. i also rely on the team to detonate MP. Nova users also rely on the team to stay alive. otherwise shes a piece of tissue paper trying to withstand a hurricane, doesnt end well

 

this thread has my +1

This is correct.

 

Nova is useless without the proper setup.

 

If you don't have a vaubon or frost, to cluster the enemies together.

Then the explosions won't do enough damage. 

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I'm wondering if you know what a niche is because nova's 4 is pretty OP dude. I can clear an entire map with minimal effort. Just one or two clicks of 4 followed by a few shots and the /entire/ map as far as I can sprint is empty until more dudes spawn in. Her 2 if used right can one shot anything in the game. Her 3 lets her and her teammates bypass any sort of parkour room or obstacle...

 

 

If you don't have a vaubon or frost, to cluster the enemies together.

Then the explosions won't do enough damage. 

Uh no? Even on higher waves of defense missions her explosions are chaining through dudes and clearing the whole thing.

 

But at the root of all these issues is armor. The acrid is superior to almost every other side armor because it ignores armor on top of that crazy DoT. The ogris does enough damage that even high levelled enemies will get blown apart by it. Nova's 4 makes things take double damage before they explode and when they explode the other enemies take double damage... Armor renders most non-armor ignoring weapons useless and with the recent level changes it becomes really, really obvious. The seer pistol was kinda cool until I tried taking it anywhere but a super low level planet where it promptly started doing next to no damage despite a nearly maxed serration.

Edited July 18, 2013 by DAWGUNITALPHA

[Blatantfool]

I agree.

 

 Also, if you read the first letter of every sentence going downwards you'll see the message 'YTJSA NIB YIYTW PBBO IAW DNO' - which means nothing but was kind of funny to try to pronounce.

[inthephonebox]

Totally agree here. But I don't think you completely understand the terms "niche" and "cliche."

 

On the other side of the spectrum there are weapons that take higher mastery and lots of materials that are under powered (ie Ignis) While I'm not of the cult of the nerfs, I am a card carrying member of the buff and rebalance cult.

[pdxdubin]

I agree.

 

 Also, if you read the first letter of every sentence going downwards you'll see the message 'YTJSA NIB YIYTW PBBO IAW DNO' - which means nothing but was kind of funny to try to pronounce.

YTJSA NIB YIYTW PBBO IAW DNO

 

Means OND WAI OBBP WTYIY BIN ASJTY backwards.

 

Just for the factoid 

[Aure7]

I agree but honestly I think they need to bring all the secondary weapons up to par.

 

Because honestly I have my twin vipers formad and maxed out

 

But kunai trump them every time.

 

 

I don't think kunai is the problem I think its the lack of secondary weapons.

 

For example the acrid is over powered as fuk, But its hard to get.

 

I think that they need to release more powerful weapons actually, And leave the other secondaries there as "beginner" weapons

 

Because they work fine for starters 

In any way it was enough to make kunai the most hated weapon in the game for me

[pdxdubin]

I'm wondering if you know what a niche is because nova's 4 is pretty OP dude. I can clear an entire map with minimal effort. Just one or two clicks of 4 followed by a few shots and the /entire/ map as far as I can sprint is empty until more dudes spawn in. Her 2 if used right can one shot anything in the game. Her 3 lets her and her teammates bypass any sort of parkour room or obstacle...

 

 

Uh no? Even on higher waves of defense missions her explosions are chaining through dudes and clearing the whole thing.

 

But at the root of all these issues is armor. The acrid is superior to almost every other side armor because it ignores armor on top of that crazy DoT. The ogris does enough damage that even high levelled enemies will get blown apart by it. Nova's 4 makes things take double damage before they explode and when they explode the other enemies take double damage... Armor renders most non-armor ignoring weapons useless and with the recent level changes it becomes really, really obvious. The seer pistol was kinda cool until I tried taking it anywhere but a super low level planet where it promptly started doing next to no damage despite a nearly maxed serration.

 

I don't see the issue with her blowing everything up.  

Because I ONLY use her on xini, Because I would rather use banshee or ash for every other mission.

 

But Like I said, She can't kill high level enemies.

 

So she can kill off the weaklings.

 

But if there is no vaubon, or a banshee there to help defend and pick off the stronger enemies, then nova will just die.

[pdxdubin]

In any way it was enough to make kunai the most hated weapon in the game for me

 

Well DE needs to make some of the more difficult weapons just as viable.

 

I think that they need to make all of the other pistols a little more beefy.

Because honestly the kunai are not really doing a lot of damage to stronger enemies either.. 

 

And if they nerf those, then secondaries will become useless. 

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I don't see the issue with her blowing everything up.  

Because I ONLY use her on xini, Because I would rather use banshee or ash for every other mission.

 

But Like I said, She can't kill high level enemies.

 

So she can kill off the weaklings.

 

But if there is no vaubon, or a banshee there to help defend and pick off the stronger enemies, then nova will just die.

I've never died to a bigger enemy like that. Maybe because molecular prime makes them take double damage

[pdxdubin]

I've never died to a bigger enemy like that. Maybe because molecular prime makes them take double damage

 

Molecular prime does not make them take double damage from any means other then novas abilities.

 

if you can prove me wrong then please do so :P

 

Because I tested a lot of this stuff.

 

 

But I am talking about lv 110 ancients.. 

 

If you are killing these things with nova then please tell me how, 

 

Because I don't even scratch them.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Molecular prime does not make them take double damage from any means other then novas abilities.

 

if you can prove me wrong then please do so :P

 

Because I tested a lot of this stuff.

 

 

But I am talking about lv 110 ancients.. 

 

If you are killing these things with nova then please tell me how, 

 

Because I don't even scratch them.

Use her 2. Load it with a clip from a strong, fast firing weapon (acrid is great for this if you have one) and you can one shot basically anything in the game.

[Gryphticon]

Hey! Stop whining about whiners! Cause now I'm whining about whiners of whiners.

Nuff said :)

[neKroMancer]

I don't believe in pure upgrade. I believe in sidegrade.

However, I have my own principle. I don't ask for a weapon to be rebalanced unless I have it myself or some stat are rather silly (Ogris with 500 spare ammo, for example). Imo, niche weapon or character is supposed to be excel at certain thing at the expense of something else which support certain playstyle more than other. When that niche is damage, that item usually subjected to scrutiny because the effect of it in gameplay is too obvious. When one player can pretty much clear the mission by himself in a 4-man coop mission, you have to expect that there is something strange about (either the player is really good or that item is stupidly good is logical conclusion in this case).

Well, most of the time DE have been tryin to balance everything but they often put these balancing acts as a secondary or tertiary priority. Enjoy them while you still can.

[pdxdubin]

Use her 2. Load it with a clip from a strong, fast firing weapon (acrid is great for this if you have one) and you can one shot basically anything in the game.

 

My 2 keeps disappearing whenever I shoot it

 

-,- 

 

But I think saryns 1 ability does more damage 

[pdxdubin]

I don't believe in pure upgrade. I believe in sidegrade.

However, I have my own principle. I don't ask for a weapon to be rebalanced unless I have it myself or some stat are rather silly (Ogris with 500 spare ammo, for example). Imo, niche weapon or character is supposed to be excel at certain thing at the expense of something else which support certain playstyle more than other. When that niche is damage, that item usually subjected to scrutiny because the effect of it in gameplay is too obvious. When one player can pretty much clear the mission by himself in a 4-man coop mission, you have to expect that there is something strange about (either the player is really good or that item is stupidly good is logical conclusion in this case).

Well, most of the time DE have been tryin to balance everything but they often put these balancing acts as a secondary or tertiary priority. Enjoy them while you still can.

 

That's A good point.

 

You can sidegrade warframes,

 

But not weapons.

 

Because damage is the primary stat.

 

DE needs to release more support and utility weapons.

 

Maybe make the grapple hook a secondary weapon. 

 

Or release more weapons like the torid, that actually do special things.

 

Maybe a freeze ray or something?

 

Maybe some kind of weapon that shoots a blast of air knocking people back?

 

These could all do a little less damage due to the utility.

 

But Right now I think warframes are fine.

 

I think after DE fixes some of the specific issues, (Nyx absorb and mental bullets) exe.

Then things will come into place.

 

 

 

But honestly If you think about PVP

 

What is real balance..

Because honestly if the maps were a little larger, Loki would DOMINATE everything.

 

So would ash.

 

Rhino would be that bullet sponge that just sits around like an idiot, While maybe a few good rhinos will use him right.

 

And nova, saryn, mag, nyx will all become squishy glass cannons that get one shot by my loki and his snipetron up in a high place. 

[Leyden]

i'm so afraid of nerf i only play with nerfed items , hoping they wont be a second time , Still at the end of his nerf rhino was better , but i dont know for other frames.

[Scribbs]

My 2 keeps disappearing whenever I shoot it

 

-,- 

 

But I think saryns 1 ability does more damage 

novas ult does make them take double damage, and from what ive seen it makes them move slower as well, and for me saryns 1 ability wasnt even ticking on ruk when i was testing it out with her, i cant even pop the poison sacks...

[Winterbraid]

The main issue is that people use Defense as the benchmark for everything. The "nerf cult" is mostly people who spend most or all of their time in Defense. Demands for nerfs are based on how well an item performs in Defense. Bullet Attractor makes most boss fights a joke, but are people crying for nerfs? No, because boss fights aren't Defense.

[pdxdubin]

The main issue is that people use Defense as the benchmark for everything. The "nerf cult" is mostly people who spend most or all of their time in Defense. Demands for nerfs are based on how well an item performs in Defense. Bullet Attractor makes most boss fights a joke, but are people crying for nerfs? No, because boss fights aren't Defense.

 

Lol this is exactly my point.

People are bench-marking defence for everything.

Well said. 

[Thaumatos]

You know who you are.

 

This dark sect of people who want to see everything get nerfed without actually TRYING IT

Just because you are too lazy to earn these higher leveled weapons does not mean they need to be nerfed.

Some of you fail to understand just how difficult it is to obtain some of these weapons.

And as soon as you see someone out-damaging you, You just throw the OP sticker on it and complain on the forums. 

 

Now, just because you see nova in her niche, Blowing the crap out of everything, does not mean she is "OP"

It means that while the circumstances are right, She can do a lot of damage.

But in many other circumstances, She becomes cliche. 

 

Yes the ogris does 1000's of damage.  But once again THIS IS A NICHE

I doubt many of you see people using this weapon in tight hallways, Or cluttered maps.

You will kill yourself. 

The acrid?  OF COURSE ITS OVER POWERED - It requires a mastery rank of 7, and 5 mutagen masses.

Whats the point of leveling up if there is no prize at the end of the tunnel?

 

Please actually take the time to build these objects, and learn their strengths and weaknesses for yourself.

Because right now nothing seems too over powered to me.

But some things seem to be lacking, And I think our focus should be with buffing mele

Or increasing some of the other niche weapons, Like the grakata, Twin vipers, exe.. 

 

Its true that some weapons / warframes need to be fixed.

And instead of this mentality of nerfing everything that seems to be effective.

We need to focus on the weaker weapons, And bring them up to par.

 

Does this mean your braton should be as strong as a supra?

NO

 

Warframes and weapons are supposed to be different, They each need a role to play, Otherwise this entire game will become cliche

All I see is another "I like my OP" post.

"Things are supposed to be OP because they're harder to get."

"It has to be OP, its the one I use."

"There are better frames, weapons, mods so you should use them."

"New stuff should be better than old stuff."

These arguments are unhealthy and should not be entertained.

This is why we can't have a real discussion about what is and isn't OP in this game...