The Dragon: A [Primed] Warframe Concept

[(XBOX)ContagionVirusX]

Personally I wish his 4 had dual functions

 

Taping it will do what it does now

 

Holding it will make YOU the dragon.

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by (XB1)ContagionVirusX

[Kerberos-3]

On 16/08/2017 at 0:09 AM, (Xbox One)AxRollxOfxTape said:

In my opinion, I believe that your rework idea makes chroma a little OP. I do like the idea of changing elements on the fly but think there should be another way to balance out that new advantage he gains. There should be a clear advantage and disadvantage to changing elements, including effects on the other abilities he has. 

Also I'd like to give you props for your original concept. Don't let the close minded die hard DE fan boys bring you down just because they don't like the idea of change. Keep up the good work. 

We aren't opposed to change. We are opposed to to change that renders frames mindless in terms of in game playstyle and/or mod setup, and this rework does both. It renders Chroma mindless to play and mindless to set up with mods, and that's a bad thing. Not to mention this rework was made based on a very outdated version of the game, in fact so outdated the creator of this rework didn't even know what Ivara was beyond appearance, indicating that he hasn't even played the game since at least Update 18. A lot of meta cheese and new frames have come and gone since then, and he probably should have gotten a feel for the game before posting a rework.

[(XBOX)AxRollxOfxTape]

On 25/08/2017 at 1:11 AM, Kerberos-3 said:

We aren't opposed to change. We are opposed to to change that renders frames mindless in terms of in game playstyle and/or mod setup, and this rework does both. It renders Chroma mindless to play and mindless to set up with mods, and that's a bad thing. Not to mention this rework was made based on a very outdated version of the game, in fact so outdated the creator of this rework didn't even know what Ivara was beyond appearance, indicating that he hasn't even played the game since at least Update 18. A lot of meta cheese and new frames have come and gone since then, and he probably should have gotten a feel for the game before posting a rework.

Or perhaps he can post his ideas without others feeling the need to completely dismiss them. So what if he hasn't played the game much recently, that isn't a reason for someone's ideas and input to be shunned, and called useless. Also in a game like warframe that is constantly changing and evolving, the idea if being able to switch elements is not a terrible one, I will admit that it should be more flushed out. Because as chroma stands rn, his kit lacks synergy and is only used with cold elemental damage. So complaining about how mindless the change would be is counterproductive and leaves the frame in its current state of stale generic setups. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by (XB1)AxRollxOfxTape

[Kerberos-3]

13 hours ago, (Xbox One)AxRollxOfxTape said:

Or perhaps he can post his ideas without others feeling the need to completely dismiss them. So what if he hasn't played the game much recently, that isn't a reason to claim someone's ideas and input to be shunned, and called useless. Also in a game like warframe that is constantly changing and evolving, the idea if being able to switch elements is not a terrible one, I will admit that it should be more flushed out. Because as chroma stands rn, his kit lacks synergy and is only used with cold elemental damage. So complaining about how mindless the change would be is counterproductive and leaves the frame in its current state of stale generic setups. 

And we didn't dismiss them without feedback. We pointed out why this is a bad rework. The passive stacking is insane, the Prime only upgrade to Effigy is not only ludicrous but is never gonna happen, and the fact that giving Chroma the ability to switch elements mid mission removes any and all reason to put any forethought into his mod setup, degenerating Chroma to "build for general stat increases and let the game do all the specialisation for me".

There is also the fact that he completely dismissed our feedback because we "didn't provide any alternatives", i.e. do his entire rework for him.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Kerberos-3

[(XBOX)AxRollxOfxTape]

14 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

And we didn't dismiss them without feedback. We pointed out why this is a bad rework. The passive stacking is insane, the Prime only upgrade to Effigy is not only ludicrous but is never gonna happen, and the fact that giving Chroma the ability to switch elements mid mission removes any and all reason to put any forethought into his mod setup, degenerating Chroma to "build for general stat increases and let the game do all the specialisation for me".

There is also the fact that he completely dismissed our feedback because we "didn't provide any alternatives", i.e. do his entire rework for him.

So you just wanted to tell him that his idea was bad without giving any sort of real feedback? And reading through the previous replies, he never asked you to do his entire idea for a rework, he asked you to instead of arguing about what you think he is wrong to try and suggest something else that might work better. Which is kinda the whole reason for this forum section to exist. Like, have you even heard of constructive criticism before?

Also I'm not sure why you keep using mod setups as the crutch of your argument, there's not much variety for a setup with chroma. You're just modding for power strength and duration. With chroma you already have 5 or 6 mod slots taken up by mandatory mods, the remaining 5 or 4 are left for personal choice. This is the same for almost every other frame in the game as well, the builds are all generally the same or at least similar.

I suggested that instead their should be a clear advantage and disadvantage to each elemental type (switching to heat could increases chance of an elemental proc on the enemy but also reduces armor by 15%). Giving the player more reason to experiment with the mods and try new things out. 

[Kerberos-3]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)AxRollxOfxTape said:

So you just wanted to tell him that his idea was bad without giving any sort of real feedback? And reading through the previous replies, he never asked you to do his entire idea for a rework, he asked you to instead of arguing about what you think he is wrong to try and suggest something else that might work better. Which is kinda the whole reason for this forum section to exist. Like, have you even heard of constructive criticism before?

Also I'm not sure why you keep using mod setups as the crutch of your argument, there's not much variety for a setup with chroma. You're just modding for power strength and duration. With chroma you already have 5 or 6 mod slots taken up by mandatory mods, the remaining 5 or 4 are left for personal choice. This is the same for almost every other frame in the game as well, the builds are all generally the same or at least similar.

I suggested that instead their should be a clear advantage and disadvantage to each elemental type (switching to heat could increases chance of an elemental proc on the enemy but also reduces armor by 15%). Giving the player more reason to experiment with the mods and try new things out. 

Feedback doesn't have to be constructive. As Dreddeth said earlier in the thread, as long as the criticism is valid, it is just as worthwhile as any other. And by not giving our own ideas for a Chroma rework, we are effectively telling him to let DE do their own job with Chroma. I also have a rework idea for Chroma that pushes him more towards being a purely destructive Warframe(something we don't actually have), but I'm not posting it because I would like to see what DE does first. 

[Dreddeth]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)AxRollxOfxTape said:

So you just wanted to tell him that his idea was bad without giving any sort of real feedback?

We gave him the reasons why his idea was bad, which is in fact, real feedback. We told him exactly what to scrap, and why. What we didn't do is write a rework for him via alternate suggestions. That would basically be proposing entirely new mechanics/abilities in numerous cases, and at that point it would be more mine or Kerberos' rework than his.

Out of respect for his ability to reason, rather than holding his hand and walking him through a more reasonable rework, I instead directed him to the three whole updates which he completely ignored, because he clearly did not grasp the current state of the game.

Worse, he openly admitted to high-balling his rework's power budget, and when confronted with how utterly dishonest and manipulative such an action is, employed a straw-man fallacy by claiming that it was necessary because people, myself included, wanted to "neuter" Chroma's potential.

For the second time, constructive criticism is not the only valid form of criticism, and a lack of such is more an indicator that the critic cannot find anything worth building off of. Furthermore, with as confrontational and sanctimonious as the OP has been, there's little chance of him acknowledging even that as valid.

[(XBOX)AxRollxOfxTape]

On 28/08/2017 at 0:54 PM, Kerberos-3 said:

Feedback doesn't have to be constructive.

 

23 hours ago, Dreddeth said:

For the second time, constructive criticism is not the only valid form of criticism, and a lack of such is more an indicator that the critic cannot find anything worth building off of.

This is an online forum dedicated to fans to voice their ideas and concepts. You both are acting like like high and mighty obsessive jerks who don't let other express their opinions. If his idea is really that bad it won't be added to the game, it's that simple. Yet coming back to the thread and saying the idea is stupid and mindless isn't adding anything, it just makes you both look like toxic fans who aren't willing to let the game change. Dreddeth, admittedly less so. But hey, if some random person with an idea you don't fully likes bothers you so much that you feel the need to ridicule it and call it stupid, go right ahead. You obviously need the win in that case. 

[[DE]Helen]

Hi everyone,

I have locked this topic because it is becoming a meta-argument. All feedback and ideas are valuable, so please remember to be respectful when having discussions in the public forums.

Thank you!

[DE]Helen