Limbo is godawful annoying to play with even when they're really good

[Pizzarugi]

What Limbo needs is for his banish mechanics to allow interdimensional damage and for stasis to not affect teammates. If an enemy is banished, they can't harm the player, but they can harm the enemies at reduced damage. This applies regardless of who's in the rift and who isn't. The reduced damage is to encourage good Limbos to actively try and bring teammates into the same dimension without interrupting the flow of combat.

If an enemy is in stasis, any damage from a gun is applied after the effect ends, similar to how it works on Nyx's mind controlled targets. Teammates' bullets cannot be frozen in place, only Limbo's. Melee damage is unaffected and will behave normally (or applied after stasis ends for consistency).

[Combustionsquirrel]

My 2 cents on the topic of the limbo rework are that there need to be better ques for who is banished and who isn't, I like the idea of making banished enemies somewhat transparent while out of the rift (and maybe vice versa while in the rift), and that stasis in its current state is way too limiting. I don't even understand why stasis has to stop allied projectiles, Harrow can chain enemies up (essentially freezing them) and still shoot at them, so why can't limbo?

Another quality of life change for limbo would be to be able to banish while in the rift, so he doesn't have to go through 2 displacing animations or put himself at risk of being turned into swiss cheese, and so he doesn't have to spam cataclysm to get a decent number of enemies into the rift. As it is cataclysm completely eclipses banish in 95% of situations simply because of this.

[chainchompguy3]

9 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

What Limbo needs is for his banish mechanics to allow interdimensional damage and for stasis to not affect teammates. If an enemy is banished, they can't harm the player, but they can harm the enemies at reduced damage. This applies regardless of who's in the rift and who isn't. The reduced damage is to encourage good Limbos to actively try and bring teammates into the same dimension without interrupting the flow of combat.

Then players will go from "Limbo is stopping me from killing anything" to "Limbo is stopping me from dealing any decent amount of damage"

If you make the damage reduction too weak, you F*** up the concept of the rift as a whole. You're basically just disarming enemies like loki.

if you make it too strong, you're basically back where you started.

 

12 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

If an enemy is in stasis, any damage from a gun is applied after the effect ends, similar to how it works on Nyx's mind controlled targets. Teammates' bullets cannot be frozen in place, only Limbo's. Melee damage is unaffected and will behave normally (or applied after stasis ends for consistency).

It already acts in the way you describe for hitscan weapons.

And there isn't anything inherently bad with freezing allied projectiles: Upon un-freezing, they fire as normally, and damage as normal.

It's just that we all like to know that we successfully killed the enemy: we don't like firing a bunch now, and hoping it'll be enough to kill the enemy later.

The biggest problem with stasis is that there isn't any way of telling players that they've successfully attacked enough to kill the enemy.

This could be solved by just getting rid of Projectile freezing for all teammates, though that would lead to inconsistency when you stasis a bombard rocket...

alternatively we could have a damage prediction system, that tracks a projectiles path, predicts if it will damage an enemy, and if so, marks the enemy's health.

 

19 minutes ago, Combustionsquirrel said:

My 2 cents on the topic of the limbo rework are that there need to be better ques for who is banished and who isn't, I like the idea of making banished enemies somewhat transparent while out of the rift (and maybe vice versa while in the rift), and that stasis in its current state is way too limiting. I don't even understand why stasis has to stop allied projectiles, Harrow can chain enemies up (essentially freezing them) and still shoot at them, so why can't limbo?

Another quality of life change for limbo would be to be able to banish while in the rift, so he doesn't have to go through 2 displacing animations or put himself at risk of being turned into swiss cheese, and so he doesn't have to spam cataclysm to get a decent number of enemies into the rift. As it is cataclysm completely eclipses banish in 95% of situations simply because of this.

Better visual indicators would be a nice change, yes.

As for harrow vs limbo, harrow is freezing the enemies he attacks, Limbo is freezing essentially the entire rift: it stops all projectiles, allies and enemies. Great vs Bombards.

yes, it is kind of limiting. But it'd kind of take away from the "Za warudo" "I froze time" feel if projectiles didn't freeze for allies. Especially if limbo's projectiles are still frozen, but allies aren't.

 

As for Banish, I don't know if DE intended it, but it's essentially changed to fit it's namesake: you banish the whole room to NOT the plane you're on. Spam it on the material plane, and you essentialy can reverse-rift walk, with all the enemies being stuck in the rift, while you are on the material plane, hacking a console or something. Or it can be an emergency "Stasis is about to drop, everybody OUT!" button.

It's biggest issue is that people liked the old banish, and want new banish to be like Old banish.

[sixsecondsleft]

DE ruined Limbo.  The original Limbo was not perfect, but he was way more playable than this version.  Scrap the rework and tweak the original.

[Donnell]

It's bad enough when others bring frames that instantly kill enemies at spawn; It's not the frames fault, it's inconsiderate players.

If i'm on a defence map with a Limbo who puts up a massive bubble and freezes everything, I'll go at the 5wave mark. balls to them :)

[Hecro]

On 4/8/2017 at 4:04 AM, motorfirebox said:

Okay, so... wait, now I can't hit the guys with the feet on fire. Oh, because they're... banished, but inside cataclysm, I think?

Dude, it isn't that difficult.

[motorfirebox]

6 hours ago, Hecro said:

Dude, it isn't that difficult.

Dude, I have a million other things to pay attention to. Having to learn an entirely separate set of visual cues that affect the entire battlefield because of one Warframe is, in fact, that difficult.

[Hecro]

14 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Having to learn an entirely separate set of visual cues that affect the entire battlefield because of one Warframe is, in fact, that difficult.

In my case, I hate when those elitist players kill everything in my sight, and I'm not posting it everywhere I can. It indeed ruins my game, but there's no reason to try to somehow purge them.

All in all, it's great to see how we have 33 different ways (Warframes) to approach the same situation. I respect yours, either if it's Nova or Mesa (Frames which I hate the most), I hope you do the same with mine.

[motorfirebox]

8 minutes ago, Hecro said:

In my case, I hate when those elitist players kill everything in my sight, and I'm not posting it everywhere I can. It indeed ruins my game, but there's no reason to try to somehow purge them.

All in all, it's great to see how we have 33 different ways (Warframes) to approach the same situation. I respect yours, either if it's Nova or Mesa (Frames which I hate the most), I hope you do the same with mine.

Who's talking about "purging" anyone? I want to see Limbo reworked slightly. As it stands, he's frustrating because he makes the battlefield confusing. He makes it hard to tell which enemies can be attacked and which ones can't. If he just wiped enemies off the map, well, then it'd just be down to whoever's quicker on the nuke. That's a separate discussion. Limbo "helps" by the game harder to play.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

limbo is just useful for keeping the team alive in specific scenarios and with the right tactics.  You have to deal with 2 visual effects :  banished enemies and the rift.  I play limbo and I can say i'm great with him, but whenever someone else is playing him I simply get out of the way in case the player doesn't know how to handle him.  if he's not good with limbo he will eventually die.  A good limbo player remains in his rift, alone.  his interventions should  be very precise and fast.  if you cast ordering 2, 4, 3, uncast 4 you're slowing down everyone's DPS and KPS for crowd control and imposing other players to get into the rift to kill them, that's it.  I will agree about the visuals being confusing, but i hated limbo only when I didn't understand how he worked.

[motorfirebox]

*ahem* Banish, rift, and stasis.

[Ascythian]

Some Warframes are designed for different things, I see no problem with Limbo atm aside from not being able to roll but then again I don't use him because he cannot roll.

Maybe his role [or not, pardon the pun], is the one he is at the moment. Just because others do not understand him is not really Limbo's fault.

[RikerWatts]

I thoroughly enjoyed old limbo, new limbo goes against everything my old limbo did: execution.
That being said, current limbo is a mobile defense god. Not even frost compares to limbo in mobile defense.
But that's all, he is a really good frame for one thing, if you hate limbo, use melee in cataclysm and run along otherwise. Not like many people like limbo, he is a frame for high tier players who know what they are doing.