Is Nova Op?

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Actually I addressed those issues and I think you'd understand better if you read the previous post to completion.

I skimmed your post because it's full of theorycrafting that really doesn't work out like that in actual play, I'm afraid.

In theory (with literally everything going right for the nova - her having a maxed out flux, not getting killed when she tries to launch the ball, not getting killed when she's trying to guide the ball to the target, etc etc etc) AM drop is hella powerful, but it's ridiculously unreliable.

 

In short you're saying that AM drop leaves you highly vulnerable as it's slow and as such that makes up for the superfluous damage that it deals which is orders of magnitude better than any ult in the game, even though it's not even an ult.

 

Yes, because this is true. With the flux you have to be within, what, fifteen meters of the target to hit? This means the orb has to be within about fifteen meters of you to shoot it. Within fifteen meters of enemies, who will be shooting at you while you're frantically adjusting your aim so the ball goes where you want it to. With Nova's loki-tier shields and health.

The ball does you little good if you're dead by the time it explodes.

 

I'm saying all it takes is for you to hold down the button on a modded flux rifle for a single second. I'm not saying you need to stand out in the open so everyone can take a pot shot at you. There will be very few cases where you can't afford a single second and frankly most of the issues that come up usually stem from people trying to guide the bomb at medium range where everything shoots at them.

Those "very few cases" are generally the time when you need anti-matter drop's damage the most, you know.

 

As for armor, you're right, it doesn't ignore armor, an issue that I addressed as well. Look at the numbers, holding down a flux rifle for 1 second on the AM Drop gives you 7x the dmg of Saryn's ult in the best case scenario, not mitigated by armor. If you take a look at the damage formulas pwnatron of Reddit data mined it's pretty clear that with that much damage this ability is at least as good Saryn's ult, for 1/2 the energy no less.

Except of course how it takes a lot more effort to use and doesn't stun the enemy for three seconds with stagger.

Perhaps it's because I predominantly play high level missions so I'm used to enemies with armor laughing off almost all non-AP damage, but I find it impossible to take claims that AM drop is OP seriously because every time I use it, the enemy shrugs it off and generally kills me, with trying to do cute tricks like launching it from behind cover not working very well at all. Mol prime is much more reliable because I can trigger it from cover, then open up on a mook to generally chain-explode all the mooks around him.

But it still doesn't help much vs high level heavies. With later waves being practically nothing but high level heavies.

 

I really don't understand why people think it takes extraordinary skill to use this ability when it goes wherever your cursor is pointed. Want it to go back to you? Point down. Forward? Point at the middle of your screen. It's completely controllable.

It meanders about like a drunken sailor, slowly, and it's very difficult to both guide an orb and dodge enemy fire at once.

 

I think the issue here is that many people aren't running the high level missions and so they see AM drop both slower and riskier, although for some reason we always compare it to another warframe's ult, which I think is already a problem.

I think the issue here is that many people are running high level missions, missions like T3 void def where AM drop simply isn't that effective no matter what its stats say it should be 'on paper.'

 

Granted in a generic mission Saryn can simply hit 4 and everything in 10m + mods dies.

If that's what we're talking about here then any frame with a radial ult is viable because you're going by the lowest common denominator where everyone's ult will kill everything so you may as well bring the one with the most range. In that case you have AM Prime, with 2.5x the range of Miasma with it's own threshold of # of enemies till it becomes better than any other damage ult.

Except with Mol-prime you have to shoot the enemy to set one off first. Rather tough in high level play when you take into account that Nova is about as squishy as Loki but without defensive powers like invisibility. And of course big enemies like heavy gunners and ancients laugh off the explosions.

 

Yea, it's not like you can hide behind cover or anything or launch it from a long distance where enemies struggles to hit you. /sarcasm

That doesn't work very well at all, you know. Ships usually have tight confined spaces without much cover to launch it from, and defense missions don't really have much cover near the pod. Even void def missions don't have much cover, since enemies can shoot right over the barricades quite happily.

And nightmare missions tend to make things even more complicated, what with that 3x enemy damage mult and oftentimes decaying health.

 

Nevermind the fact that you're comparing a 2 ability to ultimates as proof that the skill is not overpowered.

Would you rather talk about slash dash? Because I could totally talk about slash dash. Or smokescreen + a decent melee weapon?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[mogamu]

I have every frame leveled to max.  

 

I have to laugh when people judge a warframe by how it kills level 30 mobs on Sedna.  Nearly every warframe does that.  Molecular Prime's only utility is a little bit of slowing...mobs over level 60 will laugh at her pitiful damage, forcing you to fall back on old faithful armor ignore weapons.

 

Shes fun and flashy, nothing more.

[S3ven0F13]

I have every frame leveled to max.  

 

I have to laugh when people judge a warframe by how it kills level 30 mobs on Sedna.  Nearly every warframe does that.  Molecular Prime's only utility is a little bit of slowing...mobs over level 60 will laugh at her pitiful damage, forcing you to fall back on old faithful armor ignore weapons.

 

Shes fun and flashy, nothing more.

Agree'd entirely and not to mention MP needs additional input to get it to trigger. meaning she cant solo those high level mobs either cause she has low armor, health and shields(If you have to hide behind other frame, OP you are not). Sooooooo after you use the ability you gotta somehow manage to kill one of these tough/high level enemies before they kill you.

 

I think the fact its not a automatic trigger is balance enough. cause if she fails to kill one of the enemies before she goes down. it will never go off.....ever. so yea additional casting time is kinda ridiculous considering what she is already up against. so yea she is a Glass Cannon who's cannon shoots c4 that needs to be triggered in order to work. Definabley Upper Mid-Tier (which is average in this game)

 

~S3v

[Numot]

I like how people forget how slow antimatter drop is. For as powerful as it can be it needs a set up to really be useful. She's a strong support option but that's really about it.

[Mysteryman2000]

She is a much needed addition to the Warframe set because content withing the game will become increasingly harder.  T3 Defense took a long time to complete even with Nova.  The fact is Nova's ultimate move is completely useless unless you can actually kill the enemies.  And on higher more difficult enemies the chain death effect losses its bang.  What everyone is seeing right now is Nova being used in low teir fights against weak enemies,  You can get the same effect on almost all the other warframes but the chances of more powerful enemies being killed is increased by the other enemies dying around them.  In other words Nova is nothing more than a means to push back enemies at higher levels.

[JagenBlitz]

As someone who has played Nova extensively, and loves doing so, she's pretty ridiculous. People seem to forget that m. prime also slows and doubles the damage taken by those affected. Tier 3 Orokin Defense missions are a breeze. Even in the last few waves the only enemies to survive stacked explosions are the level 130 ancients and heavy gunners, who are still taking double damage from myself and allies, making them easy kills.

[ResonatingScream999]

Right... Nova isn't OP? hmm... and apparently those who say 'Nova is OP' Dont have her as a warframe? Sorry but I highly disagree. I do not need to have Nova as a warframe to know how ridiculously OP she actually IS.

 

I have used Nova via my mates account when I asked if I could try NOVA since i really did not want to spend my time on a frame that I know will get a really HUGE nerf incoming soon, and trust me NOVA is OP. Even though she may be vulnerable whilst casting, does not take away the OP factor of this broken warframe. She clearly makes other warframes useless at the moment. Every game I been in with a NOVA its just constant assists. Now 100% garruntee ill get bashed on this comment, but to be honest I don't really care if you Nova fanboys wanna bash me for my opinion. She gets ridiculous numbers T3 missions are not even a challenge anymore when your with a Nova its like its a walk through the PARK and me i like a challenge but when theres a Nova in high level missions really there is no point in wasting any ammo since Nova could carry the whole team to waves 20+ and you guys say she is not OP? Im sorry but I refused to get carried 24.7 by a warframe that spams one abilitiy all the time and gets 25+ kills in one go if either someone else in the team triggers off that molecular prime or if the person who is using nova triggers it. Yeah alot of other frames have 4th abilities that do a great amount of damage but the thing is Nova's 4th is waay more OP and broken than any other 4th or ULT of any other warframe in the game, Saryn may be close but atleast i can say she is balanced, Molecular prime has a really HUGE ridiculous range and its really stupid, Not balanced at all. 

 

Sorry but like i said before I refuse to be carried by a warframe that hardly requires any SKILL @ all. Its like he lays the traps others trigger and he gets all the kills whilst everyone else does the actually hard work, and also its a PAIN when there are others who are going for XP or ranking up...

 

But bash me all you like i stated my opinion. 

Inconclusion Nova deserves to get a NERF.

[Keltik0ne]

Right... Nova isn't OP? hmm... and apparently those who say 'Nova is OP' Dont have her as a warframe? Sorry but I highly disagree. I do not need to have Nova as a warframe to know how ridiculously OP she actually IS.

 

I have used Nova via my mates account when I asked if I could try NOVA since i really did not want to spend my time on a frame that I know will get a really HUGE nerf incoming soon, and trust me NOVA is OP. Even though she may be vulnerable whilst casting, does not take away the OP factor of this broken warframe. She clearly makes other warframes useless at the moment. Every game I been in with a NOVA its just constant assists. Now 100% garruntee ill get bashed on this comment, but to be honest I don't really care if you Nova fanboys wanna bash me for my opinion. She gets ridiculous numbers T3 missions are not even a challenge anymore when your with a Nova its like its a walk through the PARK and me i like a challenge but when theres a Nova in high level missions really there is no point in wasting any ammo since Nova could carry the whole team to waves 20+ and you guys say she is not OP? Im sorry but I refused to get carried 24.7 by a warframe that spams one abilitiy all the time and gets 25+ kills in one go if either someone else in the team triggers off that molecular prime or if the person who is using nova triggers it. Yeah alot of other frames have 4th abilities that do a great amount of damage but the thing is Nova's 4th is waay more OP and broken than any other 4th or ULT of any other warframe in the game, Saryn may be close but atleast i can say she is balanced, Molecular prime has a really HUGE ridiculous range and its really stupid, Not balanced at all. 

 

Sorry but like i said before I refuse to be carried by a warframe that hardly requires any SKILL @ all. Its like he lays the traps others trigger and he gets all the kills whilst everyone else does the actually hard work, and also its a PAIN when there are others who are going for XP or ranking up...

 

But bash me all you like i stated my opinion. 

Inconclusion Nova deserves to get a NERF.

That is utter tripe: molecular prime at max level and with a max focus mod (for luck) Nova can tickle t3 content: it's true that in combination with a vauban, she's deadly but hey, how many other frames are deadly with vauban assistance.

 

I'd love to see the vid of you breezing a t3 defence on a nova, just so I can see where I'm going wrong. (without a vauban in your team, because, well, vauban is a bit op.)

[ResonatingScream999]

That is utter tripe: molecular prime at max level and with a max focus mod (for luck) Nova can tickle t3 content: it's true that in combination with a vauban, she's deadly but hey, how many other frames are deadly with vauban assistance.

 

I'd love to see the vid of you breezing a t3 defence on a nova, just so I can see where I'm going wrong. (without a vauban in your team, because, well, vauban is a bit op.)

LOL Nova vs T3 defense is EASY get a nova for your self and take a look, EVEN without Vauban. Dont believe me ? try it for your self. Why should i sit here waste my time recording footage of a broken warframe just to prove my point? I know Vauban is OP but he is also balanced. Nova is broken. Try it out T3 DEFENSE mission and they have 20 waves Nova practically takes the team to victory through T3 defense making it walk in the park try it for your self and see how much Nova carries you. 

Edited July 21, 2013 by S3DZOR

[Winterbraid]

Right... Nova isn't OP? hmm... and apparently those who say 'Nova is OP' Dont have her as a warframe? Sorry but I highly disagree. I do not need to have Nova as a warframe to know how ridiculously OP she actually IS.

 

I have used Nova via my mates account when I asked if I could try NOVA since i really did not want to spend my time on a frame that I know will get a really HUGE nerf incoming soon, and trust me NOVA is OP. Even though she may be vulnerable whilst casting, does not take away the OP factor of this broken warframe. She clearly makes other warframes useless at the moment. Every game I been in with a NOVA its just constant assists. Now 100% garruntee ill get bashed on this comment, but to be honest I don't really care if you Nova fanboys wanna bash me for my opinion. She gets ridiculous numbers T3 missions are not even a challenge anymore when your with a Nova its like its a walk through the PARK and me i like a challenge but when theres a Nova in high level missions really there is no point in wasting any ammo since Nova could carry the whole team to waves 20+ and you guys say she is not OP? Im sorry but I refused to get carried 24.7 by a warframe that spams one abilitiy all the time and gets 25+ kills in one go if either someone else in the team triggers off that molecular prime or if the person who is using nova triggers it. Yeah alot of other frames have 4th abilities that do a great amount of damage but the thing is Nova's 4th is waay more OP and broken than any other 4th or ULT of any other warframe in the game, Saryn may be close but atleast i can say she is balanced, Molecular prime has a really HUGE ridiculous range and its really stupid, Not balanced at all. 

 

Sorry but like i said before I refuse to be carried by a warframe that hardly requires any SKILL @ all. Its like he lays the traps others trigger and he gets all the kills whilst everyone else does the actually hard work, and also its a PAIN when there are others who are going for XP or ranking up...

 

But bash me all you like i stated my opinion. 

Inconclusion Nova deserves to get a NERF.

 

First of all, the magic word "wave" leads me to the conclusion that you're one of those people for whom Warframe = Defense.

 

If yes, then I have bad news for you: Talking about "loss of challenge" of getting to wave 20+ is just hilarious when people were able to reach wave 100+ long before Nova was even in the plans.

 

Yes, discussing OP at this point is moot because Defense isn't a challenge and hasn't been for a long time. It's an endurance run (like pretty much all the "endgame" content right now). The ones that actually carry you in Defense are Frost and Vauban because they give you godmode. Everyone else is basically nothing but a combo of Siphon and a more or less gimmicky DPS number.

 

Nova merely happens to get better numbers than others because of her mechanics. If this is such a massive deal to you, you should be asking for kills to be accounted to the one who triggered the chain. I don't see why you should care anyways because Defense is supposed to be endgame, you don't go there to power level, you go there already leveled. And seen that at its core it's nothing but an endurance run, you should be grateful for anything that makes it less obnoxiously time-consuming.

 

As a long time Warframe player, having a Nova in my squad, shooting a highlighted mob and seeing those waves - that previously seemed endless - go down in a display of fireworks and gore has been some of the most fun and excitement I've had in the game for a long, long time. If your goal while playing Warframe is to prove something to the world and become a higher number than someone else, then I guess Nova is a bad thing for you. But if - like me - you play Warframe for the thrill of the wanton destruction of enemy hordes, then Nova is one of the best things in a long while.

 

All we need is for other frames to have abilities that will speed up the grind as much as Nova does. Then Warframe might turn into something actually fun and exciting as opposed to tickling 99% res enemies from behind the safety of your impenetrable Bastille/Globe.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Winterbraid

[sledgehammer83]

rhino with new helmet , is that more op? now rhino rush like a jet

unlikely at lvl 40 runs his armor and iron skins gets that wiped out pretty quickly, so rushing head on is a 'no no'

[sledgehammer83]

Novas are not OP sure they take down mobs with ease but boss fights quite useless,

 

But still I still like have them around as they handle the mods while the tanks and focus dps can concentrate on the boss 

[Dasmir]

Novas are not OP sure they take down mobs with ease but boss fights quite useless,

 

But still I still like have them around as they handle the mods while the tanks and focus dps can concentrate on the boss 

 

The ult is really usefull against bosses. that x2 damage really hlps alot

[cary2010haha]

LOL Nova vs T3 defense is EASY get a nova for your self and take a look, EVEN without Vauban. Dont believe me ? try it for your self. Why should i sit here waste my time recording footage of a broken warframe just to prove my point? I know Vauban is OP but he is also balanced. Nova is broken. Try it out T3 DEFENSE mission and they have 20 waves Nova practically takes the team to victory through T3 defense making it walk in the park try it for your self and see how much Nova carries you. 

I can say T3 defence is too easy and can't let saryn, vauban and frost show their true power, in 80-110 waves Nova may not so success in her tactic and skill.

 

Nova after wave 50+ is totally a damage buff caster but no longer dps frame, thats means she just got banshee's post but Nova can't use push to save the pod. 

 

People always just focus on easy targets and think ***is OP please stop that, and after success on any kind of nerf they cry later games are so f**king hard, well lucky DE never change frost and vauban skills.

[Numot]

The ult is really usefull against bosses. that x2 damage really hlps alot

Sure is, but hey so is sonar.

[HeyAwesomePeople]

I like nova. And DO NOT nerf it. The reason being, whose going to be there for the more challenging levels?

[HAYABU5A]

basically the game becomes boring with too many novas just noob spamming everywhere, srsly its just boring

 

the idea is a team game to work together as a team at high end game content, thats what makes the game... fun ? yeah fun

 

people who are defending nova just like the easy way out and have no appreciation for strategy and skill they are just sensitive about it cause its true

 

oh here is a solution ! when u play nova it automatically puts u in solo mode, problem solved

[cary2010haha]

basically the game becomes boring with too many novas just noob spamming everywhere, srsly its just boring

 

the idea is a team game to work together as a team at high end game content, thats what makes the game... fun ? yeah fun

 

people who are defending nova just like the easy way out and have no appreciation for strategy and skill they are just sensitive about it cause its true

 

oh here is a solution ! when u play nova it automatically puts u in solo mode, problem solved

go defence, Alone Nova sucks after wave 50, and you get your kills

Edited July 21, 2013 by Cary2010haha

[Parinirvana]

Are you guys sure you want to nerf Nova? If you nerf Nova to the current warframes, then how do you buff the original warframes?

[luanle21]

sry but NO!!! she fine the way she is just like our trollban

[Lers]

I'm sorry but are we reaally complaining about a frame that is a "potent alternative to gun-play"? You know? Like the one Volt supposed to be?

 

Damage wise she's fine. She takes out hordes of trash mobs like a boss, but leaves the heavies on higher levels (weell unless they get caught up in a stacked 20-30 chain explosion). On the other hand she's made of glass and doesnt have any form of hard cc. Also that 200k antimatter drop takes a lot of setup, many bullets and probably a Vauban to keep them in place while you charge the globes damage to that level.

 

The only complaint i might have about her is Mol.Prime. Awesome, but they should've split it up into 2 skills. One for the flashy chain explosions, and one for the aoe damage% and slow. Wouldn't make much sense from the antimatter standpoint, but as it stands M.Prime is her bread and butter, while Null Star and Antimatter Drop are safe to ignore.

[SwordAxeMace]

I'm purely annoyed that her Molecular Prime has a larger radius than my Miasma

[StyoFosho]

shes OP as hell /Thread

[Winterbraid]

I love how all the people who say Nova "ruins the challenge" decide to conveniently forget about the existence of Frost and Vauban for the purposes of this thread.

 

The challenge of Defense is "ruined" the second you have four Siphons and a Vauban with Flow/Streamline, because once you have that, you have godmode. Everything after that is only a matter of time and patience.

 

Nova doesn't "ruin the challenge" because you can't destroy something that doesn't exist.

 

In the end it all boils down to kill counts. People are crying because Nova gets the best kill counts. Well, of course someone who cannot tank or heal and is designed only to kill will have better kill counts than everyone else, this is the video game basics. Tanks and healers can't have the best DPS because then there would be no reason for any other classes to exist.

 

The only problem is tanks and healers right now don't have much of a purpose because Bastille gives you godmode. That's why Infested need a new enemy type who can break through Bastille, shrug off crowd control, and go straight for the most vulnerable member of the squad. Just like Corpus have Railgun MOAs who can shoot through Snow Globe, and Shockwave MOAs who run inside and try to blast you out of it.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Winterbraid

[Reichmar]

She's extraordinarily OP. Able to erase waves in mere seconds. For the same amount of energy Ember can do the same thing, (to Infested) but it takes her a good while longer (and she must be grounded).

 

Suggested fix would be to lengthen the cast time of Mol.Prime, or make it cost more energy.

 

Agreed. Mprime is a very, very good ability but I feel like there isn't enough of a cost to the player for its use.

 

Vauban makes the god tier because of his crazy utility, Nova makes it because an ability with a cheap cost kills everything quickly in a seizure-inducing flash of light.

 

To be clear, I don't dislike Nova, or want any kind of nerf that renders her useless (this is a COOP game after all). In fact, I find the visual effects and mechanics quite awesome.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Reichmar