Pcgamer Article. [U10 ,pvp, End Of Beta Info]

[Cinderain]

Very different indeed. I checked the FAQ when I joined the forum in January and Steve already posted his "no. not now. probably never" in the FAQ and I accepted that.

 

Then Lotus issued an order to exterminate all PvP topic, except one in the off-topic section. 

 

The FAQ said, and still says, "There is no PvP in Warframe yet".

 

As time went on, the threads increased and most were locked because of that, spam. It took a while for people to actually have a problem with PvP's inclusion to the game and to react the way that they do now.

 

Which is what happens when any online game grows/exits Closed Beta, it becomes accessible to anyone and it really shows if you pay attention.

[Sophax]

Suck it you PvE nazi's.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Suck it you PvE nazi's.

 

 

Thank you for proving the anti-PvP crowds point better than any of them could ever hope to do.

[Mak_Gohae]

The FAQ said, and still says, "There is no PvP in Warframe yet".

 

As time went on, the threads increased and most were locked because of that, spam. It took a while for people to actually have a problem with PvP's inclusion to the game and to react the way that they do now.

 

Which is what happens when any online game grows/exits Closed Beta, it becomes accessible to anyone and it really shows if you pay attention.

 

Like the guy said, all PvP threads were locked and the attitude of not wanting PvP in the game has been prevalent since then.

I dont know how you had a thread that was a nice discussion of PvP with all of that happening. 

[NalkorRN]

Suck it you PvE nazi's.

This is the exact kind of attitude that PvPers will foster and nurture if eSports enters the game.

[XandoCalrissian]

How on earth can Warframe have potential for an esport when it's pvp is as bare-bones as it gets?

[Brasten]

Like the guy said, all PvP threads were locked and the attitude of not wanting PvP in the game has been prevalent since then.

I dont know how you had a thread that was a nice discussion of PvP with all of that happening.

There were a few moments depending on the time of day when people who weren't knee jerk reactionary were on and open to non-traditional not necessarily arena style head to head PvP discussion. And then someone would come in who thinks PvP means CoD, either pro or anti, and it would again descend to two camps with nary an original thought between them.

 

How on earth can Warframe have potential for an esport when it's pvp is as bare-bones as it gets?

For one thing you don't need PvP to be an eSport. At least no head to head. People love the Olympics but the majority of events are not head to head PvP as people expect when they think shooter eSport. The important parts are, skill, competition, and entertainment value. Plus a way to judge said competition.

Just look at the 2014 Winter Olympic sports. Only one is head to head and that's Ice Hockey. In the summer 2016, 14 out 28 are head to head "PvP".

Edited July 20, 2013 by Brasten

[Cinderain]

Thank you for proving the anti-PvP crowds point better than any of them could ever hope to do.

 

The arguments and behavior of the "anti-PvP crowd" doesn't do them any justice either.

[muccmaster]

There were a few moments depending on the time of day when people who weren't knee jerk reactionary were on and open to non-traditional not necessarily arena style head to head PvP discussion. And then someone would come in who thinks PvP means CoD, either pro or anti, and it would again descend to two camps with nary an original thought between them.

 

For one thing you don't need PvP to be an eSport. At least no head to head. People love the Olympics but the majority of events are not head to head PvP as people expect when they think shooter eSport. The important parts are, skill, competition, and entertainment value. Plus a way to judge said competition.

Just look at the 2014 Winter Olympic sports. Only one is head to head and that's Ice Hockey. In the summer 2016, 13 out 28 are head to head "PvP".

You're comparing apples and oranges. Go look at a list of major esports games. Every single one is player vs player. Having two teams playing to finish a mission the fastest or something stupid like that would be incredibly boring and not what eSports is about. It would have to be real pvp and this games pvp is a joke at the moment.

Edited July 20, 2013 by muccmaster

[Cinderain]

Apples and oranges are both fruits.

 

Such a horrible idiom.

 

Aside from that, everything has pros and cons that can be compared.

[muccmaster]

Apples and oranges are both fruits.

 

Such a horrible idiom.

 

Aside from that, everything has pros and cons that can be compared.

Oh jesus it's just an idiom dude and probably the most popular one on the planet. Go read a book and settle down.

Edited July 20, 2013 by muccmaster

[Cinderain]

Oh, never mind, my English derped up due to the lack of punctuation.

 

I can offer my opinion on anything that I want. If that bothers you, go read a book and settle down.

Edited July 20, 2013 by FatalX7

[muccmaster]

I feel bad for people like you.

[Cinderain]

I feel bad for everyone on the internet, especially people like you, getting so upset.

[muccmaster]

I feel bad for everyone on the internet, especially people like you, getting so upset.

Says the person who had a nerd rage outburst over a @(*()$ idiom.

[Cinderain]

Are we still replying to each other? It's already getting repetitive.

 

nerd rage outburst

 

The pure, unadulterated absurdity of this made me giggle, though.

[Brasten]

You're comparing apples and oranges. Go look at a list of major esports games. Every single one is player vs player. Having two teams playing to finish a mission the fastest or something stupid like that would be incredibly boring and not what eSports is about.

Hardly apples and oranges. The only difference is no one has yet created a game that is entertaining to watch from either a speed running, survival/endurance, or other PvEish goal. Doesn't mean it can't happen. I look at the different forms of ice skating as a main example. Various floor gymnastics are another. Unless you're totally anti-real-world-sports part of those events is the choice of 'routine' selected and then the actual execution of that routine. We've had systems in place in racing games for years that would make such things vastly more entertaining from a spectator stand, ghosting. Part of what draws people to those real sports is #1 watching the actual skill in performance, and #2 the secret desire to watch how badly they mess it up.

In the case of speed runs, foot races if you will, one reason we put competitors in lanes side by side is so we can watch them in relation to each other. You could do all real races in isolation (as is currently done in video game speed running) or you can let an audience see the overlap from simultaneous runs.

Electronic sports, if want to go down that road, are just electronic. There is a wide world of real world sports and competition styles that have proven popular over the years.

======

An actual example out of DE... which almost worked if it hadn't glitched.

Create some Commentator/Observer tools that you can find in things like DotA2 or LoL and this can work and be entertaining.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Brasten

[Notso]

You're comparing apples and oranges

 

 

I'll compare PvE and PvP eSports all I want brother

[Mak_Gohae]

There were a few moments depending on the time of day when people who weren't knee jerk reactionary were on and open to non-traditional not necessarily arena style head to head PvP discussion. And then someone would come in who thinks PvP means CoD, either pro or anti, and it would again descend to two camps with nary an original thought between them.

 

 

I'm not saying there werent discussions about PvP what im saying is that the idea that people not liking PvP is some sort of new thing is not true at all. This has been here since the very start. And this has always been here because PvE ALWAYS takes a hit when i comes to balancing PvP and folks dont want to see that happening with Warframe. The only reason why the current PvP got a pass was because they Devs strictly said they are not going to balance the PvP by messing with the PvE.

[Cinderain]

I'm not saying there werent discussions about PvP what im saying is that the idea that people not liking PvP is some sort of new thing is not true at all. This has been here since the very start. And this has always been here because PvE ALWAYS takes a hit when i comes to balancing PvP and folks dont want to see that happening with Warframe. The only reason why the current PvP got a pass was because they Devs strictly said they are not going to balance the PvP by messing with the PvE.

 

The point I was making is this community has become increasingly more hostile in regards to PvP or any other ideas and suggestions. The idea that this community is some kind of utopia and that PvP is going to make it worse isn't very true.

 

Devs strictly said they are not going to balance the PvP by messing with the PvE.

 

And people seem to forget this so easily and so often.

Edited July 20, 2013 by FatalX7

[Mak_Gohae]

The point I was making is this community has become increasingly more hostile in regards to PvP or any other ideas and suggestions. The idea that this community is some kind of utopia and that PvP is going to make it worse isn't very true.

 

 

I dunno, i dont think the has been a big shift in this.

 

And people seem to forget this so easily and so often.

 

This was ok when i came to dealing with folks that wanted PvP but when you throw E-SPORT around  the tone shifts from appeasing a crowd to development to reach a specific goal. Maybe Steve was in his Stan Lee-hype man mode throwing stuff out to get some traction going on something with Warframe but..... man this does give an impression.

 

I know the game must grow so i can continue on but that's a huge step to take from  where we are now.

[Kindanoob]

The people that want pvp in warframe are "special"

 

And here is why:

 

#1 There are 100 clones of pvp games like that out there that do it better than warframe

 

#2 This game runs on peer 2 peer. PVP = hacking, laaging, ping leading etc etc

 

#3 The way the dev team has handled warframe so far pvp would be a horrible unbalanced mess with a side of P2W

 

#4 PVE is why every one is playing this game. And its not getting enough content as it is. If they focus on PVP the game will die.

+1

[Tulzscha]

How on earth can Warframe have potential for an esport when it's pvp is as bare-bones as it gets?

 

 

eSports/tournaments doesn't *have* to be a PVP format, events are already happening using the game's PVE focus.

 

Just recently I won a duo defense tournament with a clanmate, it was organized by DE reps in my country. The format was you had one shot to get to the highest wave you could in Casta (Ceres), team of only 2. We got to wave 33 with a Frost Prime + Nyx combo, maybe around lvl 110-130 Grineer at that point. An invincible bugged Ballista inside a rock as the last enemy on wave 33 stopped us but it was good enough to secure the win.

 

So that's an example and I'd rather they make tournament modes out of PVE rather than PVP.

 

Also, that example of Team Ben vs. Team Teslabecca.