Neuhnee Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 It really pains me to say it. Loki is *far and away* my favorite Frame. (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/60594-please-dont-fix-my-loki/) But his abilities just don't work anymore. To clarify: *What* his abilities do is *awesome*. They just need a bump to make them viable in the new update. Decoy: Just doesn't last long enough to do any good. With the damage increase in U9 Decoy is often disappearing before the casting animation is done. Personally I've never understood why a hologram takes damage in the first place, and think this ability only makes sense with a strictly time based duration. Invisibility: Invisibility costs 50 energy and a Sentinel. This is simply to high a cost to ever use this ability. Sentinels' Guardian alone outweighs the benefits of a few seconds of invisibility, not to mention Ghost, Vaporize, and...whatever Wyrm has to offer. Switch Teleport: This one's still working as advertized, no complaints. Radial Disarm: Doesn't radially disarm Elite Lancers. I'm sure this is intentional to reflect their elitness and would be a great feature on a mob that appeared only rarely. But, seeing as the bulk of the Grineer forces are now comprised of Elites, this essentially makes Radial Disarm ineffective against *two* factions. With Nova being just as fast as Loki *and* being in possession of a full complement of functioning abilities, there's just no reason to choose Loki anymore. Loki would still be the most versatile and useful Frame in the game if only his abilities actually worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Olympian Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 He was good when I had him, great starter expierence. Anyways, he is good for the begineer missions, also speed runs. Also Nova is not the best in base stats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asbyn Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) Also Nova is not the best in base stats... Loki's own stats are extremely lacking. Which was fine when he was actually "competitive", but now he's just as lacklustre overall. He's still my favourite and most played 'frame, but I really feel he needs an update and/or balance pass sooner rather than later. Give the trickster god some love, DE! Edited July 21, 2013 by Asbyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensignvidiot Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 So, in recent games i found that Radial Disarm causes Elites to Explode now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferriwind Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Loki is still great for solo missions. Although he doesn't do that well in solo defense/mobile defense and rescue is a bit tricky. He can still solo pretty much all the bosses including Raptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasmir Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 DE When you are going to fix the sentinel bug... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiiken Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Decoy: I think decoy stats are based on Loki's stats because when I was trying to make Loki beefier decoy seemed to last longer but too much good stuff has to be sacrificed to make it worth it.Invisibility: I disagree with your assessment of this. I used to think the same way you do but theres a difference between Loki's invisibiilty and Shade's Ghost. Loki's skill does not end when you attack and you get automatic criritcals for melee. Since i starte dusing it for attacking while unseen I have been doing better except for the occasional stray shot or toxic infested. Radial Diarms: I would like it if you could disarm those elite grineer at least temporarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleker Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Agree with the topic. Loki is about useless on GU9. NOW, Loki needs a little re-work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltshaker42 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 DE kind of ruined all the frames after update 9. Except Nova, but I don't wanna get into her on a thread made for Loki out of the respect I have for him. I agree with the points you're making, except radial disarm. That power should take away everything's weapons regardless of what it is. Unless it's a boss of course. Every warframe needs a buff right now. Except 2 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesrac Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I'm not having any problems with either my Decoy or my Radial Disarm, as someone mentioned earlier I've been exploding trash Grineer mobs with it in fact. I would like Iinvisibility to cloak my sentinel, but since I rarely lose it to enemy fire while I'm cloaked out I don't think it's a huge need. I would like to see them fix the problem I've had with my Decoy not deploying properly when I activate it, but I'm not sure if that's my fault or not so I can't really complain without more testing. If anything they need to bump up his base sprint speed a bit, little more movement would help mitigate a lot of damage. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCodes Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) I'm not having any problems with either my Decoy or my Radial Disarm, as someone mentioned earlier I've been exploding trash Grineer mobs with it in fact. I would like Iinvisibility to cloak my sentinel, but since I rarely lose it to enemy fire while I'm cloaked out I don't think it's a huge need. I would like to see them fix the problem I've had with my Decoy not deploying properly when I activate it, but I'm not sure if that's my fault or not so I can't really complain without more testing. If anything they need to bump up his base sprint speed a bit, little more movement would help mitigate a lot of damage. :D 1) People who like Loki don't like it because he does damage with abilities, they like utility. Blowing up elites with Radial Disarm (which doesn't kill them, I might add) instead of just disarming them is a huge nerf to Loki's viability in all Grineer missions. 2) It's not just that the sentinel gets killed, it's that the sentinel keeps everything aggroed in your general direction. You can't stay stealth because the alarm goes off when the enemy spots your sentinel, and you can't Invis and run because the enemy will chase your sentinel. 3) Movement speed is not helpful at dodging bullets, not only because Grineer attacks are hitscan, but also because you can't shoot your own guns while sprinting. Honestly, Loki's movement speed right now actually makes him tough to control with max Rush. I still keep it because I feel the benefits outweigh the issues, but more speed is not a solution to anything. Edited July 22, 2013 by XCodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orovo Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Yep Loki is perfectly fine if those two bugs(?) get fixed. I wouldn't say he's unviable right now - he's still a beast at boss/speed running and infested defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensignvidiot Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 3) Movement speed is not helpful at dodging bullets, not only because Grineer attacks are hitscan, but also because you can't shoot your own guns while sprinting. Honestly, Loki's movement speed right now actually makes him tough to control with max Rush. I still keep it because I feel the benefits outweigh the issues, but more speed is not a solution to anything. I have to disagree with you there. By utilizing a combination of Decoy, Sprint, Invisible, And/or Switch Teleport, a Loki can easily escape from most, if not all sticky combat situations. His speed allows him to avoid anything provided its being used with his abilities in tandem. Given a decoy will not last long against Grineer or Corpus gunfire for any significant length of time on the outer-rim planets (Eris, Pluto and Europa), it can still give him a few seconds to breathe to recharge his shields, reload, or even hack out of a room to bypass everything inside of it. His speed significantly increases his survivability without the use of rush mods. Throwing any stamina/sprint enhancers take away from slots that should be reserved for enhancing a deeper energy pool, or increasing survivability. I'm currently using; Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, Flow, Rage, and Streamline (though if i EVER MANAGE TO FIND ONE, I would drop Steel Fiber for Constitution/Continuity) and I find that this mix keeps me alive with little issue and allows me to control the flow of battle and push the tide in my favor. (For curiosity's sake, his load-out also includes a Dethcube, S. Vandal, Dual Vipers, and Dual Ethers) In my experience, Loki players aren't using him correctly, he is the ultimate Trololo warframe. He cant charge in headlong into a firefight and expect to come out on top. He needs to hit a massive group 'from the side' so to speak. While a Rhino, Ember, or Saryn could charge on in and pop a final to annihilate everything in sight; a Loki should drop a decoy/cloak, radial disarm, and sprint/teleport out and begin to pick away at enemies at his leisure. Being able to use tactics like this on the fly to turn a no-win situation to a manageable one is what makes this particular warframe shine and (with practice) allows players to solo missions with little issue. Now I Will agree with the OP and say that decoy needs a significant health/time buff, i miss being able to drop one to assist in Defense missions for a significant amount of time. Xini, Narcissus, and Tower III Defense missions kind of devour decoys not too long after they get dropped. All other missions, a Loki can still control where the bulk of the enemy attacking force comes from. Loki was my first war-frame of the three, and unless a sexy prime variant comes out, I will Never sell him and I feel that he doesn't need a significant buff to compete with these new 'controllers' like Vauban and Nova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Olympian Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 So, in recent games i found that Radial Disarm causes Elites to Explode now. That's hilarious actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulzscha Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Invisibility: Invisibility costs 50 energy and a Sentinel. This is simply to high a cost to ever use this ability. Sentinels' Guardian alone outweighs the benefits of a few seconds of invisibility, not to mention Ghost, Vaporize, and...whatever Wyrm has to offer. "Too high a cost to ever use this ability"?! Sorry sir, but you are sorely mistaken. I take it you've never used the Essence helmet plus the Streamline mod then? With this mod loadout (all maxed of course): Continuity, Constitution, Flow, Streamline plus the Essence Helmet = I'm invisible forever with a 400+ energy pool I can solo T3 non-defense void missions with Loki easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisp Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Sentinels' Guardian alone outweighs the benefits of a few seconds of invisibility You have to be joking. If ~15 seconds of practical invulnerability and double melee damage are trumped by a bunch of shield regen every 30 seconds, then you have no idea what Loki's capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Few seconds of invisibility ???! That's Ash right ? At max Loki invisibility is a full 12 seconds. With max continuity and constitution = he stays cloak for a ridiculous amount of time. Coupled with max streamline, Flow and Energy Siphon, you are literally laughing at the enemy. Even without an essence helm. I had to remove Energy Siphon and slot with Enemy Radar because I wanted a challenge. Edited July 22, 2013 by fatpig84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix86 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Defenetely Loki needs some tweaks... here what i would do: - Radial Disarm: must go through walls, covers, etc + Stun for 1-4 seconds (hell your weapon just exploded in your own hands and are you not shocked?!) - Invisibility: must cloak the sentinel too - Decoy: must somehow last longer under fire... i dunno... more hp, more armor... but it must last longer. - Switch Teleport: idk i used this only to troll players or environment, dont really care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulzscha Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 - Switch Teleport: idk i used this only to troll players or environment, dont really care Switch Teleport + Decoy = zooming across the map in seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kielix7 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 In a "press 4 to kill everything instantly" kind of world, the functionality of simply different frames (especially one that has not been reworked like Volt / Rhino to keep up with current frames) that don't rely on damage are swept under the rug. It becomes a question of "Why would I use Loki and have to still use my guns to kill things, when I can press 4 on Nova / Saryn to end everything instantly?" It's a different playstyle, admittedly not one that I'm strong with. I earnestly try to find a reason to like Loki, but I haven't seen one besides the Invisibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) In a "press 4 to kill everything instantly" kind of world, the functionality of simply different frames (especially one that has not been reworked like Volt / Rhino to keep up with current frames) that don't rely on damage are swept under the rug. It becomes a question of "Why would I use Loki and have to still use my guns to kill things, when I can press 4 on Nova / Saryn to end everything instantly?" It's a different playstyle, admittedly not one that I'm strong with. I earnestly try to find a reason to like Loki, but I haven't seen one besides the Invisibility. You will appreciate Loki when you found 6 level 120+ fusion moas walking up into snow globe and the disarm stops them from using their laser beams of doom. Edited July 22, 2013 by fatpig84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesrac Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Want your Sentinel to survive while your invisible? Use a decoy......I do not care for leaving Rush off of my frame simply because I have a habit of taking up the tail position for my team and sometimes I need that speed to catch up after I finish cleaning up. Steel Fiber seems so pointless on a Loki, armor is so low in the first place that trying to crank it up seems like a waste of mod space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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