so.....how long are we going to ignore cheese mechanics?

[Krazzie]

I agree with

On 9/30/2017 at 9:54 PM, KlutzMeister said:

 

The game is already been nerft so much for new player and specially for console player.  It just don't matter too much anymore, well for me at lease.  DE has given God Mode everything for everyone.  I mean like forma'ing 5 to 7 times just to kill low level enemies.  If DE just balance the game to a point where all the setup just don't matter.  To kill this lv5 enemy, since the value of you conclave is OVER 9 Thousand, we'll just drop your conclave to 400 so it'll balance out.  I don't think that is going to happen.  It would be nice though.

All in all, its like I tell people all the time, when playing with pugs, anything goes, you don't know what you are going to get.  If you don't like it, TOO BAD, you should've not join pugs. It doesn't sound nice, but that is how it goes.  You don't like something just get out.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

y'all know too much thats the real problem.  there's a side of this community that just looks for builds and tricks then upload them, every single day.  there's Reddit too, but eversincme the day I've heard about this place I never bothered going in there, ever.

[rawnerv]

On 9/30/2017 at 2:19 AM, letir said:

Maiming strike is cornerstone of sliding builds. Remove/change that mod, and problem will be solved.

i agree with this^^. As an avid melee user (have been for more than 3 years) i have always used a slide attack to initiate a fight. its the hardest single hitting melee technique that doesn't need a buff,  having the maiming strike buff moved to the last hit of the second combo on the stance mod would be less cheese inducing and more of a challenge.

[DrakoKnight48]

Until we get shield-gating, balanced enemy scaling, enemy invulnerability, cheap one shot skills, Leech Eximus units, are removed, then I'll keep fighting cheese with even greater cheese!   

[TheBrsrkr]

On 9/30/2017 at 8:30 PM, blackheartstar_pc said:

All I can say is that I disagree with all of this. 

On 9/30/2017 at 8:30 PM, blackheartstar_pc said:

 

 

Why? 

 

On 9/30/2017 at 8:30 PM, blackheartstar_pc said:

 The game is balanced fine and only individuals with a certain mind set will ever choose to cheese the game. 

The past 2 years of changes made to combat the cheese, nerfs to cheesy tactics and reworks to frames that make it more difficult to cheese say otherwise. 

 

18 hours ago, Krazzie said:

.

All in all, its like I tell people all the time, when playing with pugs, anything goes, you don't know what you are going to get.  If you don't like it, TOO BAD, you should've not join pugs. It doesn't sound nice, but that is how it goes.  You don't like something just get out.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard this or a variation of, I could buy that fancy new Razer gear that came out. 

 

You don't own public games. The public own public games. If I go around a public game cutting everything in half with my Scindo Prime or Tigris or whatever, there is very little impact on you. When you go around running spamming whatever button you have to spam to kill everything in a room in under 5 seconds and full speed on into the next room, that is a huge impact of the other players. No one but you joined the game just to pick up loot, but now everybody has too since everything else is dead. Who's the one who should really change in this situation?

It  What I never understood is why if you're just going to breeze through the mission anyway to get to the end, why don't  you play by yourself instead of ruining the game experience for other people? It makes no difference to you, and everybody else gets to, you know, actually play the game. 

[TheBrsrkr]

12 hours ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

Until we get shield-gating, balanced enemy scaling, enemy invulnerability, cheap one shot skills, Leech Eximus units, are removed, then I'll keep fighting cheese with even greater cheese!   

This is kinda the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" things except that we know which actually came first. 

[DatDarkOne]

44 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

No one but you joined the game just to pick up loot, but now everybody has too since everything else is dead. Who's the one who should really change in this situation?

You for choosing public.

44 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

What I never understood is why if you're just going to breeze through the mission anyway to get to the end, why don't  you play by yourself instead of ruining the game experience for other people? It makes no difference to you, and everybody else gets to, you know, actually play the game. 

Because they also choose public for the same reasons you probably did.  

There is no reason other than to make things easier for yourself to go public.  Well that and to show off your Fashion Frame.  To truly experience this game in all it's full glory, going solo is probably the best option. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by DatDarkOne
correcting autocorrect

[TheBrsrkr]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

You for choosing public.

Because? 

 

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Because they also choose public for the same reasons you probably did.  

Sorry, I actually want to play the game instead of dropping 3 pizzas on the ground and bullet jumping my way through the map to extraction hitting 4 enough times to break the key. I want to shoot things with a buddy because shooting things with a buddy is fun. How is speeding through a map to the end just for the reward with friends fun? They're not doing anything.  If you want to run through a mission  in 3minutes, fine. Go ahead. However, this is a multi-player game, and everyone wants to play. If you wanna go fast, play by yourself and let other actually play the game. It's not like you get less rewards than stated for running it by yourself. 

[DatDarkOne]

28 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I want to shoot things with a buddy because shooting things with a buddy is fun.

Random public mission isn't with buddies.  Invite or Friends only is with buddies.  You can't honestly classify people you know nothing about as buddies. 

28 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

How is speeding through a map to the end just for the reward with friends fun?

This is what most do in pubs.  I don't find it fun either so I tend to not do pubs.  

28 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

If you wanna go fast, play by yourself and let other actually play the game. It's not like you get less rewards than stated for running it by yourself. 

Yet if you want to go slower, play by yourself and let others go as fast as they want.  It's not like you get more benefits for running it faster in a group.  

I did the above intentionally to show you how each argument you made can be flipped and directed right back at you.  You could avoid all of the public issue by following that very same advice you gave.  By it's very nature of being public is why you can't realistically expect it to go how you would want.  Think about it for a bit.  These are real people playing in a public area.  Can you really expect people to behave exactly as you expect them to in a public area in real life.  A game, cyberspace, the internet are no different if not worse.  I say worse because you get to see how truly horribly people can behave with anonymity.  

I'm not saying this to be mean or directed specifically at you Brsrkr.  More as a presentation of common sense vs the entitlement attitude.  

Edited October 2, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[Krazzie]

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

...

You don't own public games. The public own public games. If I go around a public game cutting everything in half with my Scindo Prime or Tigris or whatever, there is very little impact on you. When you go around running spamming whatever button you have to spam to kill everything in a room in under 5 seconds and full speed on into the next room, that is a huge impact of the other players. No one but you joined the game just to pick up loot, but now everybody has too since everything else is dead. Who's the one who should really change in this situation?

It  What I never understood is why if you're just going to breeze through the mission anyway to get to the end, why don't  you play by yourself instead of ruining the game experience for other people? It makes no difference to you, and everybody else gets to, you know, actually play the game. 

So now Diversity is a bad thing, and everyone need to act like everyone should be the same?  Joining Random Pugs = Random out come, hence erratic game play.

 

12 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Sorry, I actually want to play the game instead of dropping 3 pizzas on the ground and bullet jumping my way through the map to extraction hitting 4 enough times to break the key. I want to shoot things with a buddy because shooting things with a buddy is fun. How is speeding through a map to the end just for the reward with friends fun? They're not doing anything.  If you want to run through a mission  in 3minutes, fine. Go ahead. However, this is a multi-player game, and everyone wants to play. If you wanna go fast, play by yourself and let other actually play the game. It's not like you get less rewards than stated for running it by yourself. 

That is irrelevant, it doesn't matter.  You could say the same thing that about yourself.  Why join in with a pug who would do those thing than running it by yourself and your friends.  

All comes down to is, if you want to play a different style, create one and put it on private.  Don't join pugs.

[TheBrsrkr]

1 minute ago, Krazzie said:

So now Diversity is a bad thing, and everyone need to act like they're in a Communist/Socialist Nation?  Joining Random Pugs = Random out come, hence erratic game play.

You don't know what either Communism or socialism is, and this is the opposite of diversity. There is no diversity of play without diverse ways to take down enemies. There is no diverse way to take  down an enemy that isn't there. Yes, joining pugs should get you a random outcome. There are good players and bad players. But the focus of the sentence is players. How does a person play warframe, a multiplayer horde shooter, without a horde to shoot? The focus of your phrase "erratic gameplay" is the word gameplay. Why should 3 players be subject to the whims, and that's exactly what they are, whims, of one person who couldn't be bothered to actually shoot anything and would rather run in a mostly straight line and hit 4 every now and again? He gains nothing he wouldn't gain playing solo, but his team lose the ability to affect the mission in any discernable way. 

9 minutes ago, Krazzie said:

That is irrelevant, it doesn't matter.  You could say the same thing that about yourself.  Why join in with a pug who would do those thing than running it by yourself and your friends.  

Me joining an a public game with normal gameplay helps both me and the player by supporting each other (if needed)  in playing. My experience we each cover a different side of the room. Maybe he goes for loot boxes with the Ayatan thingies I don't understand while I don't,and tags them for me. Maybe I could do one of the moon challenges he doesn't know how to do.aybe we just run around vaguely aware of each other being there and not really interact. 

What does a spammer gain by going public? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is no benefit of drawback to the person spamming their way through an entire level. What make it relevant is that all other players who are with him are put at a net disadvantage because they don't get to do anything at all. The mission  is over before it even started. Only one person leaves happy,while the other 3 have to queue up to play another game where they MAY be able to actually do something. I didn't come to Warframe to pick up loot. I came to shoot and stab things to death. If I can't do that, why even play? What gives you the right to decide what happens on a public game? Why should anyone allow you to dictate the pace of a public game or be forced to make another group? 

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

What gives you the right to decide what happens on a public game?

And what gives YOU the right dictate how others choose to play in a public game?

11 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Why should anyone allow you to dictate the pace of a public game or be forced to make another group? 

Why should YOU dictate to anyone else the pace of a public game or force THEM to make another group or go solo?  

You just can't logically, socially, or ethically do any of those things.  Why, because it's a RANDOM public mission.  

[TheBrsrkr]

29 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Random public mission isn't with buddies.  Invite or Friends only is with buddies.  You can't honestly classify people you know nothing about as buddies. 

He wants to shoot some Corpus, I want to shoot some Corpus, and here we have this huge heap of ammo and 2 big guns! Whatever shall we do? Well, I don't know you, so you're not my buddy, so I guess we.... kill things separately? 

Okay, so he's not my buddy. What does that change? Nothing. Nothing at all. 

34 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

This is what most do in pubs.  I don't find it fun either so I tend to not do pubs.  

And this is in no way a problem?

 

35 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Yet if you want to go slower, play by yourself and let others go as fast as they want.  It's not like you get more benefits for running it faster in a group.

Except that makes no sense. You do get more from going slower. You gg et to, you know, actually play the game. More enemies spawn, more loot drops, more fun things for you to kill in various ways. More fun for everyone, because I don't instantly kill everything. They can still do something other than collect loot and run to extraction. When you run it faster, you get the same end result with reward, but less resources (I know, not really an issue when you have ten million of everything) and nobody can do anything else but collect loot and run to extraction, because everything else is dead. Dead enemies aren't fun to shoot. So 3 people basically have to walk to extraction while 1 guy doesn't even try to have fun, he's just donny it for the reward. 

 

43 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I did the above intentionally to show you how each argument you made can be flipped and directed right back at you.  You could avoid all of the public issue by following that very same advice you gave.  By it's very nature of being public is why you can't realistically expect it to go how you would want.  

These are not the same thing. One forces everyone to play around them, and the other gives everyone at least a chance to do something. Nobody ever ran straight through a tileset without killing a thing and got to extraction whoever someone else walked around and disintegrated everything in and out of sight and sat down after that and thought, that was fun, I should do it again. It doesn't have to go exactly as I want. I'm a melee player, and I frequently go to games where everyone shoots thing started before I can kill them. That's to be expected,because that's how most people play. I don't care, because I wasn't quick enough to get them all. They were better than me, and I accept that. Some could trip the alarms in a spy and quit the game. Some could troll you all day with Limbo shenanigans or Nova leaving teleport  in front a door. People suck. No way around it. People won't suck less, ever. This isn't the same thing as trolling though, this is just removing agency from players. Never a good thing. 

 

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

And what gives YOU the right dictate how others choose to play in a public game? 

Now we're getting back to literal no yous. Great. 

 

What gives me the right to dictate how you play is the fact that you are the one actually affecting gameplay. No one else can play the game against enemies while you spam all the way through the map. I don't affect your gameplay and any significant negative form or fashion. You do. What exactly am I dictating here? 

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Why should YOU dictate to anyone else the pace of a public game or force THEM to make another group or go solo? 

Because of how the mechanics of the game work. To put it simply, those that spam powers indefinitely to speed though a mission leaving nothing in their wake are having a negative  impact on public matches. I have very little effect on a public match no matter what I do that isn't trolling or cheesing. Therefore, the one that needs to change what is affecting the match maker is you, not me. If you could point out how a guy that uses a bunch of mid tier weapons on a Rhino, Chroma or Frost has the proportional effect of a Saryn, Excalibur spamming EB or a Mirage with some kind of massive explosive or the Old simulor running as fast as they can to extraction nuking room after room while 3 other players watch. 

 

16 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You just can't logically, socially, or ethically do any of those things.  Why, because it's a RANDOM public mission.  

And this means what? Because it's random, you should expect not to be able to play at all? 

[DatDarkOne]

Wow.  Just wow.  That fact that you don't even see anything wrong with this way of thinking is just sad.  

[TheBrsrkr]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Wow.  Just wow.  That fact that you don't even see anything wrong with this way of thinking is just sad.  

That does the look much like an explanation to me. Shame. I could use a new argument after 2.5 years of hearing the same spiel over and over again. 

 

The problem here is that you think public games should be a zone for anything to happen. I disagree. Anything that allows a player to prevent another player for having a reasonable chance to enjoy themselves is bad. Public or private, these things are quintessential to the game. One should not control the pace  of three. This has happened too many times. Greedy Mag and Pilfering Hydroid spring to mind. Somehow you think wanting to play the game at a pace that isn't breakneck is me being selfish, when that's how we would be playing without the scores of cheesy exploits we have. 

[Krazzie]

 

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Me joining an a public game with normal gameplay helps both me and the player by supporting each other (if needed)  in playing. My experience we each cover a different side of the room. Maybe he goes for loot boxes with the Ayatan thingies I don't understand while I don't,and tags them for me. Maybe I could do one of the moon challenges he doesn't know how to do.aybe we just run around vaguely aware of each other being there and not really interact. 

What does a spammer gain by going public? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is no benefit of drawback to the person spamming their way through an entire level. What make it relevant is that all other players who are with him are put at a net disadvantage because they don't get to do anything at all. The mission  is over before it even started. Only one person leaves happy,while the other 3 have to queue up to play another game where they MAY be able to actually do something. I didn't come to Warframe to pick up loot. I came to shoot and stab things to death. If I can't do that, why even play? What gives you the right to decide what happens on a public game? Why should anyone allow you to dictate the pace of a public game or be forced to make another group? 

How does one person tell another person how he/she gain nothing by playing the way they like.  You may gain nothing but maybe for them, they do. And thats right, No one has that right to decide how public game should play like. So don't contradict yourself.  Why should this 3 player allow to dictate the pace of the game of this one person anyway. Also I don't see warframe as a shooter game, even if it has that tag.  You can put any almost tag on it and it'll still be right. 

 

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Except that makes no sense. You do get more from going slower. You gg et to, you know, actually play the game. More enemies spawn, more loot drops, more fun things for you to kill in various ways. More fun for everyone, because I don't instantly kill everything. They can still do something other than collect loot and run to extraction. When you run it faster, you get the same end result with reward, but less resources (I know, not really an issue when you have ten million of everything) and nobody can do anything else but collect loot and run to extraction, because everything else is dead. Dead enemies aren't fun to shoot. So 3 people basically have to walk to extraction while 1 guy doesn't even try to have fun, he's just donny it for the reward. 

Contradicting argument again.  Killing faster = more spawn = more loot and drop.  Can still be fun.  Killing slow would do the opposite.  And if there is a reward at the end of a run faster would still be better.  More runs an hour = more reward earn.  If you only get 1hour booster to get as much reward as possible, sure you can try his slowness and see what happen.

 

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Because of how the mechanics of the game work. To put it simply, those that spam powers indefinitely to speed though a mission leaving nothing in their wake are having a negative  impact on public matches. I have very little effect on a public match no matter what I do that isn't trolling or cheesing. Therefore, the one that needs to change what is affecting the match maker is you, not me. If you could point out how a guy that uses a bunch of mid tier weapons on a Rhino, Chroma or Frost has the proportional effect of a Saryn, Excalibur spamming EB or a Mirage with some kind of massive explosive or the Old simulor running as fast as they can to extraction nuking room after room while 3 other players watch. 

How do you know, I surely don't think so.  Just because you think it doesn't mean its true.

 

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

And this means what? Because it's random, you should expect not to be able to play at all? 

That right. Pay amage to Random

[TheBrsrkr]

10 hours ago, Krazzie said:

1.How does one person tell another person how he/she gain nothing by playing the way they like.  You may gain nothing but maybe for them, they do. 2.And thats right, No one has that right to decide how public game should play like. So don't contradict yourself.  3.Why should this 3 player allow to dictate the pace of the game of this one person anyway.4. Also I don't see warframe as a shooter game, even if it has that tag.  You can put any almost tag on it and it'll still be right. 

1. Like this:

You are gaining nothing by playing in a public match that you wouldn't gain in a private match. Consider private matches for your speed running needs. 

And before you start on the moral outrage of me telling a player how to play, keep in mind that this player, using that method, dictates how everyone else will play whether they want to or not. If an alert gives you Nitain and you speed run it with pubs you don't get more Nitain. You also don't get less Nitain for doing it solo. You in fact finish slower when running Public games because of doors that require 2 people to open and having to wait at extraction. Whether playing public or private, there are no adverse effects to you. The players with you, however, have had all their agency removed because there is nothing to do. There is nothing to do because you sped through 5 rooms in less  than a minute, hitting 4 a couple of times and moving on just as quickly. This leaves other players miffed, for want of a better word. They couldn't play, they just sat there and ran around for 5 minutes, shooting the occasional guy that may have respawned. Before the spawner can catch back up to the destruction you're already at the extraction point waiting. See the difference? You also failed to answer the question. What does a spammer gain by playing in public? 

 

2. What you are accusing me of doing is exactly what you are doing. You are defining spamming as fair play. It is not. Anything that removes agency from a player is not fair play. It should not be there. You also don't understand what I mean. I can't tell you to not shoot your gun at targets I'm currently chopping up with my Boltace or something. You do what you like. I'm still going to cut things. If I don't get to cut things, I was outplayed fairly and therefore have no one to blame but myself and my obsession with large axes or edgy looking weapons. Pressing 4 and having everything in a room die is not outplaying anyone. It's forcing them to deal with you taking away their player agency. They are not the same thing. 

3. The fact that you are preventing them from playing by making enemies irrelevant. 

4. If it's in the tags and you don't believe it, it doesn't really change what it is. Warframe is a shooter. 

10 hours ago, Krazzie said:

1.Contradicting argument again.  Killing faster = more spawn = more loot and drop.  Can still be fun.  Killing slow would do the opposite.  2.And if there is a reward at the end of a run faster would still be better.  More runs an hour = more reward earn.  If you only get 1hour booster to get as much reward as possible, sure you can try his slowness and see what happen

1. First of all, killing faster means more spawns on infinite levels where they spawn infinitely. Any non endless match will spawn new enemies that will take time to get there and stack up. During which you've already own to room 2 and also nuked that. You are still removing the agency of the other players,who now have to fight 3 or 4 enemies between the 3 of them to then walk into an almost empty room. 

2. Yeah, sure, okay, more rewards. Wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about player agency. Which you are still removing. 

10 hours ago, Krazzie said:

How do you know, I surely don't think so.  Just because you think it doesn't mean its true.

That's not really an answer. 

 

10 hours ago, Krazzie said:

That right. Pay amage to Random

And no one sees any issues with this? 

[Dreamforger]

One is only cheesing for oneself..

The times I do public I expect this and do not really care, when I play with friends or solo, I just don't use it.

It would trivialize the game.. I mean so many cries for endgame and challenge... just do not cheese, and look see the master of parkour 2.0 as the endgame.

I mean for me even void 40+ can be a challenge.. it can also be damn easy. But the fun if to survive with rather squishy frames, land some amazing kills and well have fun :)

I am not saying that I would not welcome more challeging stuff or better rewards from missions.. just saying I adapted to the current game and still can find joy in it :)

[Krazzie]

45 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

1. Like this:

You are gaining nothing by playing in a public match that you wouldn't gain in a private match. Consider private matches for your speed running needs. 

And before you start on the moral outrage of me telling a player how to play, keep in mind that this player, using that method, dictates how everyone else will play whether they want to or not. If an alert gives you Nitain and you speed run it with pubs you don't get more Nitain. You also don't get less Nitain for doing it solo. You in fact finish slower when running Public games because of doors that require 2 people to open and having to wait at extraction. Whether playing public or private, there are no adverse effects to you. The players with you, however, have had all their agency removed because there is nothing to do. There is nothing to do because you sped through 5 rooms in less  than a minute, hitting 4 a couple of times and moving on just as quickly. This leaves other players miffed, for want of a better word. They couldn't play, they just sat there and ran around for 5 minutes, shooting the occasional guy that may have respawned. Before the spawner can catch back up to the destruction you're already at the extraction point waiting. See the difference? You also failed to answer the question. What does a spammer gain by playing in public? 

2. What you are accusing me of doing is exactly what you are doing. You are defining spamming as fair play. It is not. Anything that removes agency from a player is not fair play. It should not be there. You also don't understand what I mean. I can't tell you to not shoot your gun at targets I'm currently chopping up with my Boltace or something. You do what you like. I'm still going to cut things. If I don't get to cut things, I was outplayed fairly and therefore have no one to blame but myself and my obsession with large axes or edgy looking weapons. Pressing 4 and having everything in a room die is not outplaying anyone. It's forcing them to deal with you taking away their player agency. They are not the same thing. 

3. The fact that you are preventing them from playing by making enemies irrelevant. 

4. If it's in the tags and you don't believe it, it doesn't really change what it is. Warframe is a shooter. 

1. Why does it matter? because it doesn't.  It doesn't matter if a spammer, rusher, slower player, fast killing.  All doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter if they play on public or private.  Isn't that is why it's open to public.  As for the alert if you are someone who's has limited to play, why not finish fast and you can move on to other thing.
2. Everything is fair, if it is in the game.  It doesn't matter what anyone says.  Until DE says so.
3. Who's restricting who?  You are not restricting anyone, in a pug runs.  If it was created and private, then I can see it.
4. Yes, you are right.

 

45 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

1. First of all, killing faster means more spawns on infinite levels where they spawn infinitely. Any non endless match will spawn new enemies that will take time to get there and stack up. During which you've already own to room 2 and also nuked that. You are still removing the agency of the other players,who now have to fight 3 or 4 enemies between the 3 of them to then walk into an almost empty room. 

2. Yeah, sure, okay, more rewards. Wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about player agency. Which you are still removing. 

1. You should be more broad about your answers.  Of course point A to point B maps will be different than Endless maps.
2. You mean urgency? Slow playing doesn't increase a player urgency.  Playing fast will make them think fast, thus increase their urgency.  Playing with a speed nova well help this come along. 

 

45 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

That's not really an answer. 

That's not really an answer.

 

45 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

And no one sees any issues with this? 

I hope not.  Pug run is all it is, a pug run. 

If you want this to be better.  At lease then, DE should implement Conclave balancing to Public maps. It may help a little

Edited October 2, 2017 by Krazzie
It may help a little

[Soketsu]

Let him go, if this guy decide he own the truth, he think he s right no matter what you say, you completly wrong, no point to argue with him, already have some issue with him.

So either keep trying, or ignore him.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Soketsu

[kswong98]

Remember Tipedo?
 

[StabbyTentacles]

On 9/29/2017 at 11:06 PM, tnccs215 said:

You understand there's a reason why DE is making us fighting titanic, horrifying beasts with a skinny and fragile emo kid instead with the walking surrogate deity? 

It's because those deities have become so powerful to make any pretense of challenge impossible without massive, generalized changes and nerfs. 

You aren't the center of the world. Some people like to feel challenged, and that feeling is unattainable through self-hinderance. It feels fake, as it is. 

And since power-freaks obviously have a monopoly on the balance of the general combat... They gotta make this so that the people who actually like a challenge don't leave for balanced games. 

Oh, and you know Dark Souls? The game that's universally recognized as "though, but fair"? It gets balance passes all the time. And it doesn't even has a weekly release of weapons. 

Oh, and you know when in the history of time has Warframe had a weekly release of weapons?

I, and I'm sure many players could take a significant hit to power, if we got improved combat, movement, abilities, synergy with warframes and lost the Dweeberator alltogther.

My Warframe is strong! Dweeberator December 3rd, 2015 

[TheBrsrkr]

8 hours ago, Krazzie said:

1. Why does it matter? because it doesn't.  It doesn't matter if a spammer, rusher, slower player, fast killing.  All doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter if they play on public or private.  Isn't that is why it's open to public.  As for the alert if you are someone who's has limited to play, why not finish fast and you can move on to other thing.

I've spent most of this thread telling you why it matters. It removes the agency from other players. So yes, it does matter if they do it solo or not,because nobody's bothered by you doing it solo, and everyone who actually wants to play the mission is bothered when you do it publicly. 

As for if you want to finish a timed alert quickly, go right ahead. In solo. Why? Because as I said before, the rewards don't change when you do it solo, and you're not making anyone else play around you. Why is this so hard to understand? I'll ask again, what do you gain from rushing through an alert with 3 other people tailing behind you doing nothing that you wouldn't get when you play solo? 

8 hours ago, Krazzie said:

1.  
2. Everything is fair, if it is in the game.  It doesn't matter what anyone says.  Until DE says so.

The whole point of this forum is to discuss ways to improve the game. What you say here matters because you're talking to the developers. 

 

8 hours ago, Krazzie said:

1. .
2. Who's restricting who?  You are not restricting anyone, in a pug runs.  If it was created and private, then I can see it
3.  

How many times do I have to say that you, one player, are controlling how everyone else can play? That's a restriction. You are controlling the amount of challenges that your allies can face. What is that, if not restriction? 

 

8 hours ago, Krazzie said:

1. .

 

1. You should be more broad about your answers.  Of course point A to point B maps will be different than Endless maps.
2. You mean urgency? Slow playing doesn't increase a player urgency.  Playing fast will make them think fast, thus increase their urgency.  Playing with a speed nova well help this come along.

Even if it was an Endless map, you still remove player agency by killing everything as it spawns. Answer me this, did you join the game to get loot, or did you join the game to kill things and get loot? 

No, I don't mean urgency, I mean agency. Agency is performing an action to get an effect. You shoot things, melt things with your mind , you become a Ferrero Rocher to shoot or get shot, you get loot. All of these things are things a player wants to do to participate in the game. You remove agency by preventing anything besides getting loot. This is a problem, and DE knows and says it's a problem. 

8 hours ago, Krazzie said:

1. That's not really an answer.

 

   2.I hope not.  Pug run is all it is, a pug run. 

If you want this to be better.  At lease then, DE should implement Conclave balancing to Public maps. It may help a little

1. You didn't ask a question. You told me, "I don't think it's true" without explaining why or how it's false. How am. I supposed to respond? 

2. You really see no problem with one person speeding their way through the level killing everything in one key press? Really? This isn't a problem at all? 

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

[W3zeer]

On 2.10.2017 at 6:06 AM, Krazzie said:

Why should this 3 player allow to dictate the pace of the game of this one person anyway.

So why are those rushers then getting upset when I take my time and collect the loot, scan plants, open containers, etc. while they are waiting at the extraction? Because then it's suddenly waisting everyone's time. i totally agree with @TheBrsrkr, if one player can remove his entire group from participating in the game (even on high level missions), the tool he does that with needs to go. And I'm sorry to tell you, in the end, DE seems to agree with that, just ask Ash or the Simulor. So changes will happen, might take a while, but as soon as a "tactic" has become so dominant that noone without it can even do anything but follow the spammer in a public match, the days of that tool are numbered. Also, I don't know, why ppl always compare "let me play the way I want" to "let me play at all". Warframe will never be really balanced, there's too much unique stuff and too much content added all the time. But there's nothing wrong with a baseline that noone should be able to mindlessly remove all enemies from the game.

And ppl honestly complain about Trinity about being op...