This Is How We Treat The Stalker... [@de]

[Phoenix86]

1 pic > 1000 words

 

[InFlames]

he needs so many buffs...

[CybrinZ]

Kinda makes you feel bad for him.












































Not really.

[ForumSmurf]

lol

[Vilemyre]

Yeah I can't take him seriously anymore when he pops up. Pretty easy to kill now.

 

Also inb4 "What Stalker?"

[Blatantfool]

he needs so many buffs...

 

 Not really. If you make him too deadly it is very unfair to new players.

 

 

  What really needs to happen is an expansion to the number of events like his.

 

 

 It'd be awesome if there was a chance of having 2-4 Hyena Mech show up during a High Level Corpus mission, for instance. Just crazy things that can turn a cakewalk into a fight for your life.

[fishworshipper]

You guys remember when Stalker was actually scary?

You guys remember when he didn't have a bounty on his head?

You guys remember the lights would flicker and you would think "oh s**t" instead of "OH GOODY"?

...I miss the old Stalker.

EDIT:

Not really. If you make him too deadly it is very unfair to new players.

Not sure if I'm just the odd one out here, but when Stalker wasn't a completely unchallenging snorefest of a fight (aka when he had his Braton and his Cronus) I got my &#! handed to me on a silver platter.

Multiple times.

But I looked up info about him, his loadout, tactics to beat him, and I resolved to beat him. I didn't go "dis gaem 2 haaaaaaaard".

And he was scary and fun to fight, scary because he wasn't Santa Gone Emo and fun because he actually shot at me. Now he has a pathetically weak bow that I don't think he ever shoots and a scythe he rarely uses. His Slash-Dash is the only threatening thing about him.

Edited July 24, 2013 by fishworshipper

[ForumSmurf]

 Not really. If you make him too deadly it is very unfair to new players.

 

 

  What really needs to happen is an expansion to the number of events like his.

 

 

 It'd be awesome if there was a chance of having 2-4 Hyena Mech show up during a High Level Corpus mission, for instance. Just crazy things that can turn a cakewalk into a fight for your life.

well bth i think as gamer's we've lost the willingness to loose even once in a while. I think occasionally a stalker showing up to slaughter a begginer seems fine to me. Its not like he shows up every other mission. And once the player is strong enough he can defeat the stalker.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[RawGritz]

He needs friends... Stalker Squad event. he also needs a crack course in Parkour training. 

[Blatantfool]

well bth i think as gamer's we've lost the willingness to loose even one match out of a dozen. I think once in a while a stalker showing up to slaughter a begginer seems fine to me. Its not like he shows up every other mission. And once the player is strong enough he can defeat the stalker.

 

 It is in poor taste to allow a new player to come up against an enemy he just can't take on in a fair fight. That is poor gameplay design.

 

 

 That is why I believe that instead of making Stalker stronger the game needs more types of events that happen in later missions that are all more difficult.

 

 

 Imagine if there was a weaker version of the boss Phorid that could spawn in groups of 2 or 3 during a mission - you'd reach a locked doorway and Lotus would warn you that her Scans reveal something really big on the other side.

 

 Things like this. Enemies that qualify as 'Mini-boss' status that can show up under a whole number of different conditions.

[Drusus]

Not really. If you make him too deadly it is very unfair to new players.

 

 

  What really needs to happen is an expansion to the number of events like his.

 

 

 It'd be awesome if there was a chance of having 2-4 Hyena Mech show up during a High Level Corpus mission, for instance. Just crazy things that can turn a cakewalk into a fight for your life.

I think that's in need of being two fold Blatant.

1) increased 'special guest villain' variety, as you suggest.

2) far more intelligent difficulty scaling of the guest villain, either by drawing from the mission difficulty rating or an aggregate reference of the players in mission at time of spawn.

Also, there needs to be a clear 'no join' blocker in place the moment you get the notifier. Didn't have help when you started the mission? Bummer for travelling alone; stalker picked the right time to ambush.

[Archistopheles]

+1 Phoenix86

 

Best picture I've seen all day.

[ForumSmurf]

 It is in poor taste to allow a new player to come up against an enemy he just can't take on in a fair fight. That is poor gameplay design.

 

 

 That is why I believe that instead of making Stalker stronger the game needs more types of events that happen in later missions that are all more difficult.

 

 

 Imagine if there was a weaker version of the boss Phorid that could spawn in groups of 2 or 3 during a mission - you'd reach a locked doorway and Lotus would warn you that her Scans reveal something really big on the other side.

 

 Things like this. Enemies that qualify as 'Mini-boss' status that can show up under a whole number of different conditions.

I would agree that one perspective of good game design deems that is in poor taste but the system you describe is very akin to the l4dead system. And as i'm currently aware a jockey will kill you on the first mission if your entire team is full of first time noobs. I think its because that perspective of game design is more concerned with winning rather than experience. I'm actually ok with begginers being absolutely terrified of the stalker, it gives a really fresh and new gameplay dynamic. "im going to avoid stalker at all costs till im a little stronger" or even "Clan chat HELLPPP stalker is coming please clan mates help me"

 

essentially what a designer tries to avoid is here's the first boss......here's the second boss he's twice as strong but here's a gun that is twice as strong. What you actually accomplished was very little.

 

compared to a system that says here's a really badass boss that will slaughter you for a very long time. Build up your power young tenno and you will be greatly rewarded the time comes of your victory.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[Blatantfool]

 I feel like you are expected a very different reaction then players would probably have.

 

 Some new guys would probably see the lights blinking and ignore it. The dude with the message may or may not even try to tell his allies - assuming they can see the messages too - and then Stalker would very, very likely blindside the new players and kill one or more of them considering he does great damage to a weak Warframe,

 

 You need to make sure you aren't asking the player to do something impossible. For that matter, you want to try to make sure you aren't making them FEEL like it is impossible since that can be just as bad.

 

 Your example of L4D2 actually supports what I'm saying. A Jockey can be a real issue for a new player - but really any gun in the game makes very short work of it. The game also practically blows your screen up with notifications pointing out an ally in trouble. New players are taught very,very quickly how the enemy works and how to beat it. 

[ForumSmurf]

i concede. XD but i would like to add my first experience with stalker was a very exhilarating one. I felt extremely terrified and as you may have guessed he cleaved me in two.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[Blatantfool]

 For what it is worth - the game does need more monstrous minibosses. I think that it'd be neat if later planets opened up more events. Maybe relate it to the Story missions. Players unlock the ability to run into Hyena Mechs after beating one in the story.

[Vilemyre]

It would be nice to have something simple as lotus notify everyone there is a strange disturbance on the ship then people might feel a little more alert.

 

I warned people the stalker was here and watched as a mag got oneshot'd. I was the only person to attack the stalker as well.

[Drusus]

I would agree that one perspective of good game design deems that is in poor taste but the system you describe is very akin to the l4dead system. And as i'm currently aware a jockey will kill you on the first mission if your entire team is full of first time noobs. I think its because that perspective of game design is more concerned with winning rather than experience. I'm actually ok with begginers being absolutely terrified of the stalker, it gives a really fresh and new gameplay dynamic. "im going to avoid stalker at all costs till im a little stronger" or even "Clan chat HELLPPP stalker is coming please clan mates help me"

 

essentially what a designer tries to avoid is here's the first boss......here's the second boss he's twice as strong but here's a gun that is twice as strong. What you actually accomplished was very little.

Smurf, here's the thing.

We saw this in WoW and other MMOs with Elite Mobs that would patrol areas where the Elite was _far more powerful_ than anything around it, and due to the level differential between them and the targets, an aggro range that your average golfer would kill to be able to call their 'driving distance'.

The counter argument was that you could run away and avoid these enemies if they decided to make you their lunch. This was a half truth, but it was in some cases feasible. You could also see them coming.

The stalker (or enemy du jour in Blatant's suggestion) is a contained threat. If they show up? You have to engage as the expectation. There is no legitimate argument for avoidance because that is entirely random map dependent (like being able to take an elevator the stalker cannot; pity he is foiled by the 'Up' button?).

To toss the rookie player into the cage with the tiger without legitimate options for evasion and avoidance? That's pretty dubious.

We do get 4 revives by default and one could say that IS your escape clause, but at the end of the day, there are few things as immensely dissatisfying to any player as losing no matter what option you picked because it was a kobayashi maru.

Good for drama, not so good for game play experience.

EDIT: and I see in time I thought this out, the conversation moved on... Woe to me the johnny come lately :)

Edited July 24, 2013 by Drusus

[Kasamoto]

I think the Stalkers main fault was that he dropped ANYTHING to begin with...

[ForumSmurf]

@Drusus. A very logical counter argument, i concede. My only objection is that the stalker shows up very little. I was counting on the fact that dieing once out of 20 missions was an acceptable statistic possibly imitating the conditions and emotions one receives while playing slender man. I had remember one of my clan mates becoming very excited on his first stalker kill; he felt an immense sense of accomplishment because the thing that had terrified him for so long was now finally kill-able.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ForumSmurf

[Blatantfool]

Drusus nailed it, well said.

a very logical counter argument, i concede. My only objection is that the stalker shows up very little. I was counting on the fact that dieing once out of 20 missions was an acceptable statistic.

Perhaps there should be more then one Stalker? Your total Solar System Completion % could draw the attention of even more dangerous assassins and such.

Multiple levels of difficulty in your surprise assassin attacks!

[Valkyrie9001]

Yeah I can't take him seriously anymore when he pops up. Pretty easy to kill now.

 

Also inb4 "What Stalker?"

 

 

he needs so many buffs...

 

These.

[Dasmir]

Old...

[IcarusNine]

The "problem" with stalker is that the game scales difficulty based on how strong your modules are compared to how healthy/damaging the enemy is.  At a fixed level 45 (or sometimes 60?) Stalker will always be enormously difficult for younger players and a pushover for players with maximized modules.

 

Also, having him give drops makes it perceived as somewhat mandatory that players should be able to kill him.

Before that, it could have been justifiable if he weren't killable... After all, you can always run, which, if his lore is any indication, is exactly what Tenno should be doing.

 

 

Really it's just a terrible idea all around and you can't fix it.

[TunaMayo]

Drusus nailed it, well said.

Perhaps there should be more then one Stalker? Your total Solar System Completion % could draw the attention of even more dangerous assassins and such.

Multiple levels of difficulty in your surprise assassin attacks!

 

Different assassins for different factions, work in the same way as the current stalker so killing bosses = higher chance to be attacked, but say you linger in a certain system for too long, the chance to get attacked creeps up. So if you sit Eris running Xini, you will eventually get attacked just for being in infested territory?

 

Grineer - A squad, or superunit flameblade, sent out by the queens to exact revenge.

 

Infested - A new hunter unit tracks you down, like an elite charger.

 

Corpus - One of the new proxies, or a unit of mini proxies, is sent out to exact revenge (Hyena/Jackal/Ambulas/Raptor).

 

Unknown - Stalker. His chance increases no matter what boss you attack.

 

This way, you get 3 new assassins/assassin units, and you have a VERY unfortunate chance of all 4 of them attacking at once, which would be hella fun.

 

I think the assassin levels should scale with the planet you're on aswell, harder planet = harder assassin. Not sure if that happens already but i don't seem to notice as such.