Focus 2.0: Focus Exp = Not Fun

[Orfeusz]

 

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

And I can max focus+get 25k syndicate standing in 15 minutes with affinity booster.

It doesn't mean automatically that suddenly it doesn't suck just because someone somewhere doing the optimised bull**** in order to do so. I would like just to do missions that I want instead of repeating that one every day until I throw up eventually or it will get nerfed just likr any other farming spot before it.

I also have 100k oxium for example while others can barely farm 4-8 k because they don't camp in that one specific misison doing same boring **** over and over.

I 100% agree with you, we should obtain good amount of focus just by playing game, making mission and so on... + in the current state it take too much time to max all focus trees or even just one.. 

 

[-Temp0-]

1 minute ago, Orfeusz said:

 

I 100% agree with you, we should obtain good amount of focus just by playing game, making mission and so on... + in the current state it take too much time to max all focus trees or even just one.. 

 

And that's the thing.

Which is, you should kill approx 6000+ enemies of lv 30-40 and a large portion of them with convergence active to get 200-250k focus (without a booster with a greater lens(es)). This is with affinity booster -

Without it 6000+ bots.

And EVEN then it takes an hour squatting on Bere which probably most people still do. Even doing (not most) but still optimised farming it taes so.much.time. And the thing is, spawn there is constant unlike survival for example. So in survival you won't even get those numbers even if you will kill the same amount. And it takes way more than an hour to kill 6000 enemies by playing mormally even so.

I have no freaking idea what the devs are thinking. It's crystal clear they aren't playing or even testing their own game at all.

The whole thing is getting mroe ridiculous day after day.

[Mr.Holyroller]

2 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

And I can max focus+get 25k syndicate standing in 15 minutes with affinity booster.

It doesn't mean automatically that suddenly it doesn't suck just because someone somewhere doing the optimised bull**** in order to do so. I would like just to do missions that I want instead of repeating that one every day until I throw up eventually or it will get nerfed just likr any other farming spot before it.

I also have 100k oxium for example while others can barely farm 4-8 k because they don't camp in that one specific misison doing same boring **** over and over.

There's always something to farm. You don't have to farm focus if you don't want to. At this point, focus abilities are still arbitrary in relation to how they affect the base game. And if you just want energizing dash or the Madurai damage paasive, it only takes a week to get. I don't understand why people are complaining so much about something that has such a little affect on the game as it currently stands

[Mr.Holyroller]

20 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

And that's the thing.

Which is, you should kill approx 6000+ enemies of lv 30-40 and a large portion of them with convergence active to get 200-250k focus (without a booster with a greater lens(es)). This is with affinity booster -

Without it 6000+ bots.

And EVEN then it takes an hour squatting on Bere which probably most people still do. Even doing (not most) but still optimised farming it taes so.much.time. And the thing is, spawn there is constant unlike survival for example. So in survival you won't even get those numbers even if you will kill the same amount. And it takes way more than an hour to kill 6000 enemies by playing mormally even so.

I have no freaking idea what the devs are thinking. It's crystal clear they aren't playing or even testing their own game at all.

The whole thing is getting mroe ridiculous day after day.

Why is everyone so against "optimized" farming methods? Isn't that the whole point of progression in warframe? You get better frames, with better mods, and better weapons so that you can gather experience and material faster. Also, even without a booster you can max focus on 30 minutes with 2 greater lenses doing stealth exterminate on Adaro. And before you say "I shouldn't have to run Adaro" why is it that we've accepted a bunch of other farming and leveling methods in the game ( index, bere, hydron, heiracon, etc), but when it comes to focus Farming on Adaro  people loose their marbles?

Edited November 2, 2017 by Mr.Holyroller

[NightBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Why is everyone so against "optimized" farming methods? Isn't that the whole point of progression in warframe? You get better frames, with better mods, and better weapons so that you can gather experience and material faster. Also, even without a booster you can max focus on 30 minutes with 2 greater lenses doing stealth exterminate on Adaro. And before you say "I shouldn't have to run Adaro" why is it that we've accepted a bunch of other farming and leveling methods in the game ( index, bere, hydron, heiracon, etc), but when it comes to focus Farming on Adaro  people loose their marbles?

because being forced into 1-2 different playstyles out of the countless ones available in the game just to get focus is utter bs and needs to stop. it just leads to burnout and players ignoring the system like they did before. seriously, one of the biggest points in the game is options, yet farming focus takes that pretty much entirely away from you.

[-Temp0-]

17 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

There's always something to farm. 

No there isn't.

I usually don't "farm" at all only occasionally but because I do so intelligently. Because of that I was able to farm for Hema alone and have 100+k oxium and 150l plastids for example.

And THAT'S WHY I say that focus suck the more time goes on the more it sucks.

Quote

I don't understand why people are complaining so much about something that has such a little affect on the game as it currently stands

Looks like you don't understand anything and 1. it takes over the game and affects it more and more - did you know you can kill shadow stalker with tier2-3 amp without breaking a sweat? The day will everntually come when your operators an their **** abilities/weapons will replace warframe at least for some missions. It's inevitable. 2. people just want to feel they're getting somewhere. When you get like 20k after an hour long survival where enemeis by the end were lv100 excuse me, it doesn't feel rewarding. And that's what you and the devs can't grasp. Rewards and time spent should be reasonable and  now it's just grind for the sake of grinding.

Quote

 

Why is everyone so against "optimized" farming methods?

Maybe cause it's boring AF? It's worse than watching a paint dry. I honestly don't want to see Bere, Hydron, Akkad or Sechura in my life ever.

And all you do is just stay in one spot pressing one button - how in the world it can be "OK" with anyone? Doing stuff is fun. Pressing one button over and over isn't.

Edited November 2, 2017 by -Temp0-

[Mr.Holyroller]

2 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

because being forced into 1-2 different playstyles out of the countless ones available in the game just to get focus is utter bs and needs to stop. it just leads to burnout and players ignoring the system like they did before. seriously, one of the biggest points in the game is options, yet farming focus takes that pretty much entirely away from you.

Yeah the game has tons of options, that's why everyone uses corrosive projection and All the builds for weapons are the same depending on whether it's a crit or status weapon.

[Mr.Holyroller]

6 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

No there isn't.

I usually don't "farm" at all only occasionally but because I do so intelligently. Because of that I was able to farm for Hema alone and have 100+k oxium and 150l plastids for example.

And THAT'S WHY I say that focus suck the more time goes on the more it sucks.

Looks like you don't understand anything and 1. it takes over the game and affects it more and more - did you know you can kill shadow stalker with tier2-3 amp without breaking a sweat? The day will everntually come when your operators an their **** abilities/weapons will replace warframe at least for some missions. It's inevitable. 2. people just want to feel they're getting somewhere. When you get like 20k after an hour long survival where enemeis by the end were lv100 excuse me, it doesn't feel rewarding. And that's what you and the devs can't grasp. Rewards and time spent should be reasonable and  now it's just grind for the sake of grinding.

I mean, I put the time in to have a 4 forma ivara and equinox and have the appropriate mods. Should we not be rewarded for our time invested? I feel like people just want everything to be easy without any type of specific investment or specific method. There's always going to be one frame or one weapon that performs better at completing different tasks. If ivara and equinox didn't have the payoff of being able to farm focus I would tell new players not to even bother with them because of the large time investment it takes to get them.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Mr.Holyroller

[NightBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Yeah the game has tons of options, that's why everyone uses corrosive projection and All the builds for weapons are the same depending on whether it's a crit or status weapon.

not everyone uses CP, i almost bnever do, it isnt really needed outside of sortie 2 or higher. and sure, while the base modding is similar for different weapons, at least there are countless different weapons to choose from. and people complain about needing to use the +dmg mods as it is, so yea....its not fine both of those things are connected to things that need to happen: mainly armor scaling rework and damage 3.0

[DiabolusUrsus]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Why is everyone so against "optimized" farming methods? Isn't that the whole point of progression in warframe? You get better frames, with better mods, and better weapons so that you can gather experience and material faster. Also, even without a booster you can max focus on 30 minutes with 2 greater lenses doing stealth exterminate on Adaro. And before you say "I shouldn't have to run Adaro" why is it that we've accepted a bunch of other farming and leveling methods in the game ( index, bere, hydron, heiracon, etc), but when it comes to focus Farming on Adaro  people loose their marbles?

Remember Draco? Remember Viver? DE is pretty clear where they stand on the idea of "optimized farming" for specific resources.

Sure, they may not always be on top of smashing the latest optimal node, but they've tried to do it before and they'll try to do it again. Hell, the whole point of Convergence is to counteract this sort of play (though it fails miserably in that capacity). It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. But even when they do get around to it, the problem will still persist because they aren't actually attacking the root causes of the problems they are trying to solve.

Focus isn't something that is supposed to be power-farmed. It's something that's supposed to be unlocked gradually over time; the devs themselves have said as much. It's why they bothered implementing a cap. It's why they implemented Convergence. It's why they implemented a capacity pool.

But the system is designed such that players are compelled to power-farm, and your perspective is a prime example of that fact. That's kind of the point of the whole discussion going on, and you might actually have understood that if you had bothered to read something before trying to devalue the points being made by passing it off as aimless crying.

Yes, power-grinding is currently the norm.

No, it's not supposed to be that way. The nodes on the star chart are there to be played, not unlocked once and abandoned ever-after outside of alerts. It's why they crushed Draco. It's why they crushed Viver. They're just not using the right solutions, and the same applies to Focus.

 

[Mr.Holyroller]

Just now, NightBlitz said:

not everyone uses CP, i almost bnever do, it isnt really needed outside of sortie 2 or higher. and sure, while the base modding is similar for different weapons, at least there are countless different weapons to choose from. and people complain about needing to use the +dmg mods as it is, so yea....its not fine both of those things are connected to things that need to happen: mainly armor scaling rework and damage 3.0

I agree with you for the current armor system. It's just for me, the current method to getting focus makes me feel like my time invested getting the best frames and maxing out mods is actually starting to pay off.

[Mr.Holyroller]

2 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Remember Draco? Remember Viver? DE is pretty clear where they stand on the idea of "optimized farming" for specific resources.

Sure, they may not always be on top of smashing the latest optimal node, but they've tried to do it before and they'll try to do it again. Hell, the whole point of Convergence is to counteract this sort of play (though it fails miserably in that capacity). It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. But even when they do get around to it, the problem will still persist because they aren't actually attacking the root causes of the problems they are trying to solve.

Focus isn't something that is supposed to be power-farmed. It's something that's supposed to be unlocked gradually over time; the devs themselves have said as much. It's why they bothered implementing a cap. It's why they implemented Convergence. It's why they implemented a capacity pool.

But the system is designed such that players are compelled to power-farm, and your perspective is a prime example of that fact. That's kind of the point of the whole discussion going on, and you might actually have understood that if you had bothered to read something before trying to devalue the points being made by passing it off as aimless crying.

Yes, power-grinding is currently the norm.

No, it's not supposed to be that way. The nodes on the star chart are there to be played, not unlocked once and abandoned ever-after outside of alerts. It's why they crushed Draco. It's why they crushed Viver. They're just not using the right solutions, and the same applies to Focus.

 

I do agree that it would be nice to gain things more passively. I feel like no matter what I'm doing,  I'm just power farming and maybe that's why the 15 minutes it takes for me to max out my focus doesn't phase me. You've touched on a good point. We never really casually go through already completed content unless it's the most efficient way to farm something. I mean, since poe, I haven't used anything other than an optocor for teralysts and an ortho prime for focus and it kinda is saddening.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Just now, Mr.Holyroller said:

I do agree that it would be nice to gain things more passively. I feel like no matter what I'm doing,  I'm just power farming and maybe that's why the 15 minutes it takes for me to max out my focus doesn't phase me. You've touched on a good point. We never really casually go through already completed content unless it's the most efficient way to farm something. I mean, since poe, I haven't used anything other than an optocor for teralysts and an ortho prime for focus and it kinda is saddening.

You are 100% correct in that sense, and it's because the way various systems are implemented that's really the only way to get anything done in a timely manner. The problem at hand is that DE keeps trying to remove the players' ability to power-farm (nerfing nodes, implementing caps, reducing gain rates, etc.) instead of looking at what makes them want to power-farm in the first place (e.g., unrewarding long-term progression).

If they sat down and took the time to polish the underlying mechanics to be entertaining in their own right (not just for the loot) and ensured that things like Focus were rewarding to players long-term, DE would see such power-farming behavior all but evaporate. Sure, some players who feel the need to have everything immediately would still power-farm, but they would be a lot fewer in number because that sort of play is so exhausting.

[Mr.Holyroller]

8 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

You are 100% correct in that sense, and it's because the way various systems are implemented that's really the only way to get anything done in a timely manner. The problem at hand is that DE keeps trying to remove the players' ability to power-farm (nerfing nodes, implementing caps, reducing gain rates, etc.) instead of looking at what makes them want to power-farm in the first place (e.g., unrewarding long-term progression).

If they sat down and took the time to polish the underlying mechanics to be entertaining in their own right (not just for the loot) and ensured that things like Focus were rewarding to players long-term, DE would see such power-farming behavior all but evaporate. Sure, some players who feel the need to have everything immediately would still power-farm, but they would be a lot fewer in number because that sort of play is so exhausting.

I think oxium is a better example than focus with how intimidating farming can be in this game. I've seen several new players quit because of oxium, cryotic, and orokin cells. You're right, the concept of farming  OVERALL needs to be looked at and revisioned

[allibound]

At this point calling it "power farming" or "efficient farming" is a misnomer since power farming it with a meta build in very specific ways is the only way to get meaningful amounts of focus.  Normal game play gives you almost no focus.  Leveling gear gives very little focus.  Alerts and Invasions give you almost no focus.  Quests give almost no focus.  Most sorties give very little focus.  If you want focus you have to abandon everything else the game has to offer to go get that focus in a very specific way. 

There are lots of aspects of the game that force you to do something very specific but unless you are very unlucky it ends after a few days.  Focus, as designed, will take many months of doing it every single day in a very specific way, with a very specific loadout. The sheer volume of people speaking out about it should tell you that most people will give up soon if they haven't already unless something fundamental changes.

They advertise focus as that thing you get just doing normal stuff.  So not true.

[Mr.Holyroller]

1 minute ago, allibound said:

At this point calling it "power farming" or "efficient farming" is a misnomer since power farming it with a meta build in very specific ways is the only way to get meaningful amounts of focus.  Normal game play gives you almost no focus.  Leveling gear gives very little focus.  Alerts and Invasions give you almost no focus.  Quests give almost no focus.  Most sorties give very little focus.  If you want focus you have to abandon everything else the game has to offer to go get that focus in a very specific way. 

There are lots of aspects of the game that force you to do something very specific but unless you are very unlucky it ends after a few days.  Focus, as designed, will take many months of doing it every single day in a very specific way, with a very specific loadout. The sheer volume of people speaking out about it should tell you that most people will give up soon if they haven't already unless something fundamental changes.

They advertise focus as that thing you get just doing normal stuff.  So not true.

1. Sorties give double focus so that's not true.

2. I personally like doing stealth exterminate. It makes me actually feel like a ninja. Also, most of the people complaining haven't even done stealth exterminate to get focus so they come from an ignorant perspective. Even with changes, I doubt anything will be faster than stealth exterminate unless they nerf it which will just make people even more sad.

P.S.  you can pull off stealth exterminate without forma on ivara/equinox and without primed mods. It just takes a bit more effort

[allibound]

Doing a normal mission, without staying overly long to chase convergence or having a lens on fully leveled gear gets you maybe 1000-1500 focus.  Doing the same for a sortie version of the mission might give you 2000-3000 so, sure you're right.... it's double.  Doubly crap is still crap.

I'm sure there are people that enjoy the current method of focus farming.  Grats to you.  Many hate it and already stopped.  And since its the only way to get focus.... hey guess we aren't getting those nodes unlocked this decade.

[Mr.Holyroller]

16 minutes ago, allibound said:

Doing a normal mission, without staying overly long to chase convergence or having a lens on fully leveled gear gets you maybe 1000-1500 focus.  Doing the same for a sortie version of the mission might give you 2000-3000 so, sure you're right.... it's double.  Doubly crap is still crap.

I'm sure there are people that enjoy the current method of focus farming.  Grats to you.  Many hate it and already stopped.  And since its the only way to get focus.... hey guess we aren't getting those nodes unlocked this decade.

Have you actually done stealth exterminate? Its pretty brainless. Also the focus grind used to be harder, and still has just as little impact on the base game. Why all the outcry now? The focus system is better than it's ever been. And they'll definitely continue to make improvements as time passes. I dont know anyone that does stealth exterminate and HATES it .

Edited November 3, 2017 by Mr.Holyroller

[allibound]

Yes I've done it many times.  Its brainless.  It's boring.  The only thing it gets you is focus.  Doing it now and then isn't hateful if you don't enjoy stealth play.  But having that as the only available option and having to do it every day for a year.  That is HATEFUL if you have other frames you like playing more.  It's the opposite of their official stance against power farming loot caves.  It's opposite the advertised "get it through normal gameplay". I've played with people that brute force their way through sortie spy missions with Rhino, triggering every alarm and still succeeding because its what they like, and it can be made to work.  If you don't want to sit half afk buffing the kill-frame waiting for the next yellow ball to pop, and if you don't like stealth play.  You. Will. Not. Get. Focus.

[Mr.Holyroller]

6 minutes ago, allibound said:

Yes I've done it many times.  Its brainless.  It's boring.  The only thing it gets you is focus.  Doing it now and then isn't hateful if you don't enjoy stealth play.  But having that as the only available option and having to do it every day for a year.  That is HATEFUL if you have other frames you like playing more.  It's the opposite of their official stance against power farming loot caves.  It's opposite the advertised "get it through normal gameplay". I've played with people that brute force their way through sortie spy missions with Rhino, triggering every alarm and still succeeding because its what they like, and it can be made to work.  If you don't want to sit half afk buffing the kill-frame waiting for the next yellow ball to pop, and if you don't like stealth play.  You. Will. Not. Get. Focus.

Here, I'll make a list of all the things you don't gain "passively" that actually affect base game:

Oxium

Cryotic

Nitain 

Kuva

Any of the sortie rewards

Warframes (except oberon)

Kavats 

Argon Crystals (unless you always play in the void for some strange reason)

Reasonable amounts of Endo for primed mods

Primed Mods 

Reasonable amounts of credits for primed mods And trading

Reasonable amounts of Affinity to forma frames

Why has focus become the focus of farming complaints?

 

 

 

 

 

[allibound]

None of those require you to spend up to an hour a day, every day, for over a year and all of them can be done with any frame/weapon you like. That is core of the issue. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

6 minutes ago, allibound said:

None of those require you to spend up to an hour a day, every day, for over a year and all of them can be done with any frame/weapon you like. That is core of the issue. 

Takes me 15 minutes and in less than a year's time from scratch you can max out every school in the game with the new system

Edited November 3, 2017 by Mr.Holyroller

[Ceryk]

2 hours ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Why is everyone so against "optimized" farming methods? Isn't that the whole point of progression in warframe? You get better frames, with better mods, and better weapons so that you can gather experience and material faster. Also, even without a booster you can max focus on 30 minutes with 2 greater lenses doing stealth exterminate on Adaro. And before you say "I shouldn't have to run Adaro" why is it that we've accepted a bunch of other farming and leveling methods in the game ( index, bere, hydron, heiracon, etc), but when it comes to focus Farming on Adaro  people loose their marbles?

It's a video game. The point of it is to be fun to play. Once you start getting into ultra optimization, it becomes a chore. If we wanted to do chores, we'd go clean the house or something.

If you want to sit stealth farming with Ivara or Quake Grinding Bere with Banshee for an hour and a half every day, that's your business. The rest of us would like to play the game and be adequately rewarded for doing what the entire point of playing a video game is about: Having fun. I should be able to cap out my Focus Exp every day running what ever mission I please with out having to be forced into specific tactics or mission types. The entire idea of Focus is that it's supposed to be gained for playing, not specific missions, but EVERYTHING in the game. But the terrible Affinity system does not result in that.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Ceryk

[allibound]

You like the meta-stealth method.  I'm happy you enjoy it.  But its the ONLY way to get it a meaningful rate.  You enjoy stealth play which probably means you are good at it.  If someone doesn't like it, they probably won't be good at it, and probably won't care to get good at it so what you do in 15 minutes might take them 2 hours.  Why are you insisting its okay to force the entire population into one very specific style of play every day for over a year? It IS over a year, added up its well over 400 days of daily capping, more if you actually use yoru free time for things that aren't Warframe.

[Mr.Holyroller]

2 minutes ago, Ceryk said:

It's a video game. The point of it is to be fun to play. Once you start getting into ultra optimization, it becomes a chore. If we wanted to do chores, we'd go clean the house or something.

If you want to sit stealth farming with Ivara or Quake Grinding Bere with Banshee for an hour and a half every day, that's your business. The rest of us would like to play the game and be adequately rewarded for doing what the entire point of playing a video game is about: Having fun. I should be able to cap out my Focus Exp every day running what ever mission I please with out having to be forced into specific tactics or mission types.

That's not how warframe works in any context. If you just did whatever the whole time you'd have no frames and no resources