Quest frame's prime variants are weird to me? (Mirage prime, Gara prime, etc.)

[Sanxxieh]

4 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Valkyr Prime = The Golden Age era Valkyr, when we walked with the masses as a symbol of Orokin power

Gersemi Valkyr = The mass produced war model

Normal Valkyr = The mauled version we made a blueprint after Alad V experimented on a Gersemi model

But the design of Valkyr Prime is against the lore because it is based on the "Normal Valkyr" not on "Gersemi Valkyr". That's it. Only this. I guess it is not too hard to understand it.

[SilvaDreams]

4 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

But the design of Valkyr Prime is against the lore because it is based on the "Normal Valkyr" not on "Gersemi Valkyr". That's it. Only this. I guess it is not too hard to understand it.

How can it be based on normal valkyr when normal valkyr is just the gersemi with " flesh " striped away?

Or do you mean the gauntlets the Prime has?

[Sanxxieh]

19 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

How can it be based on normal valkyr when normal valkyr is just the gersemi with " flesh " striped away?

Or do you mean the gauntlets the Prime has?

 

I've already explained.

On 16.11.2017 at 3:57 PM, Sanxxieh said:

The Valkyr Prime design. Her collar, bonds, bolts all over her body, scars, lack of tail (like normal Valkyr, while Gersemi has it), lack of wings (same as the tail). The head of Valkyr Prime is also based on Bastet helmet, nor Gersemi. Basically - her Prime design is based on post-Alad V Valkyr.

 

[Crowshrink]

How about you can only get the primed version if you've fully levelled the original frame.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Crowshrink

[LogaMC1995]

43 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

How can it be based on normal valkyr when normal valkyr is just the gersemi with " flesh " striped away?

Or do you mean the gauntlets the Prime has?

Just think it this way. Alad V got his hands on some Orokin Archive and saw Valkyr Prime's design. Alad V wanted to replicate it as close as he can coz you know, Corpus worship Orokin and their tech. So he put some Corpus parts like the gauntlets, bolts and collar onto the mauled Valkyr to make her look close to Prime.

[SilentMobius]

This is really simple, there are two frame of reference here:

1. What the devs were inspired by
2. Why things exist in the way they are by in-world logic.

Obviously The artist creating Valkyr Prime wanted to base their design on the original Valkyr mash, that's fine, they wanted a gold-spiky berserker and that is what they sculpted, it makes sense from the company's perspective that they didn't want a prime resembling a deluxe skin, rather than the Warframe you find in game.

However, in the game world, Valkyr Prime is the original design, that Warframe was always a feral berserker, The Tenno-built version of Valkyr Prime was what we know as Gersemi, but none of those survived intact into the post-cryo era.

Alad V found a Valkyr Warframe in cryo. Much the same as the player intro story that Valkyr Warframe most likely had a Tenno stuck in transference (in the Second Dream) believing they were "Valkyr", given the description of the Gersemi skin is likely that Alad V found a non-prime Gersemi-Valkyr Warframe. Alad-V did not make Valkyr, he just vivisected an existing Warframe probably complete with a Tenno stuck in transference during the vivisection.

So, why does Valkyr resemble the Prime rather than Gersemi? There are a couple of notable possibilities:

• Alad V had data on Valkyr Prime and one of the things he wanted to know was how the Tenno version differed from the Orokin design, hence damage and modifications in the vein of the Prime Warframe
• Alad V actually found a Valkyr Prime Warframe and the Gersemi description is not actually implying that Warframe was taken by Alad V just that "Before Alad V's experiments resulted in the monstrosity that we now call Valkyr there existed a Tenno Warframe called Gersemi Valkyr"

The point is that it's easy to come up with solid reasons, the information we have is vague so it's easy to explain away, the fact is that we have what we have and there is no concrete reason for it given, but that doesn't mean there needs to be "retcons" or "lore breakage" because we didn't have enough information to create a canon that Valkyr prime could break in the first place.

As far as Mirage and other Story Warframes goes, there is nothing in the stories we know that prevents Primes existing, there are lots of possible explanations, for example:

The "First Production Mirage" is lost on it's maiden mission, deep in Sentient held territory. The Tenno controlling that Warframe (Who believes they are "Mirage") is locked into Transference because of the distance. The Prime Warframe was used by the same Tenno when they were back in the Origin System but is reserved for missions where the Tenno is protecting the Orokin, or was destroyed in the Origin System in the early days of the Old War, The Tenno was simply "reset" (without ever realizing the difference) into a Tenno-built Warframe due to the resource shortages, fragments of the blueprint data can be found in the surviving towers in the void like other Prime Warframes.

Inaros Prime was designed and if it was ever built it was destroyed in the Old War before the same Tenno returned to Mars in the Tenno-built Warframe, years later.

etc etc.

No "Story" Warframe is an actual "character", they are a designed-and-built Warframe and a Tenno (or a Warframe controlled by something replacing the Tenno) with a history that extends way before the events that we are told about, where a Prime Warframe could have been designed, existed and/or been destroyed, before the Tenno using the Tenno-built Warframe experienced the events we are told about.

For all we know the "personality" of a given Warframe was passed from Tenno to Tenno, with the Orokin uploading the current "working copy" of "Mirage", "Inaros" etc etc, each time a dreamer was chosen for a mission, and it was a random Tenno who eventually took the "Mirage" persona too far and wiped themselves out, returned to the Mars colonists they never really knew, even though "Inaros" did.

Hell, when a Warframe "persona" proved problematic (Like the Rebellion of Inaros, or the self-sacrificing destructiveness of Mirage) maybe the Orokin put that frame line and persona into cold storage, reverting to old standbys of Excalibur and Volt, or maybe that's when they design a new Warframe and persona to replace a "shelved" Warframe, making the last gasp of the Tenno running Mirage, Inaros, Limbo, etc the actual last appearance of those Warframes, not because they couldn't be rebuilt and maybe not even because the Tenno (in those stories) was dead but simply because the Orokin chose not to.

Lots of ways of doing it, the only way to assert that "Story Primes break the lore" is to make assumptions about things we don't currently know yet.

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by SilentMobius

[Shidonia]

Mirage you get from Mirage quest did exist before as Mirage Prime and she was fighting against the sentients. 

The Gara we get from Saya's Vigil quest was Gara Prime before and known as Glass Lady of the Unum. She Stayed on the Plains even tho Lotus told her to fall back. 

Parts we get from quests are like plain blueprints they are either being retrieved or being given due to an accomplisment of a mission. And even if you be able to get your hands on a blueprint that says that it will yield a vauban prime chassis for example foundry research wouldn't result in a prime part unless it was bathed in Void. With Void energy parts are coming up on a level which we can craft with the basic resources. Cuz Void is like the reflections of the past. It holds a records of these prime warframe images and sometimes even stats and weapons they were carrying..  Just like how banshee prime was carrying euphona prime. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Shidonia

[rushari]

I don't know why people trying to solve this. DE clearly thought warframes as some kind of suits at first and the idea of them being vessels decided later. Before valkyr and the deep story quests you could come up with a lore but story department(if there is one) f***ed up so much now it's irreversible. Ofc you can always come up with something that connects everything but it'll still not make much sense. So it's up to the players' imagination at some point. 

Don't try to make sense from valkyr lore. Because it's pointles. You can come up with a better explanation with mirage but still the way the story told to players creates confusion. I think DE should also rewrite some story dialogues and codex entries to create solid lore. Their tryhard attemps to connect past entries to current evolved version won't work.