Vigilante mods are completely outclassed by Hunter Munitions

[Rekkou]

Both triggers on critical hit but there are few differences between them:

• 30% chance for 200% damage vs 30% chance for 245% armor ignoring damage.
• 6 mod slots vs 1 mod slot
• Ineffective build vs Effective build
• Can't even think of what weapon can benefits from these mods vs Good on any weapons with good crit chance.

Vigilante mods are not just weak or bad but it's faulty. It's only usable on crit weapons but require 4 slots on your weapon, while crit weapons require 6 obligatory mods. Base damage, Multi shot, 2 elemental, 2 crit mods. You can try with only 4 mods, but you'll only get 20% chance which isn't much at all.  If you want to use the full sets, you'll need Riven mod with at least 3 obligatory stats. 

Fix suggestion :

1. Like Gladiator mods, change vigilante mods so they are geared toward crit modding. This will allow them to replace crit mods required by crit weapons. Vigilante Supplies/Fervor/Offense should be replaced by +100% Crit chance and +90% crit damage to replace the obligatory crit mods. 
2. Change vigilante effect to give additive crit chance. Full set will give you +30% crit chance. This will make Vigilante effect becomes the opposite to the Hunter munitions, this will allow non-crit weapons like Tiberon, Dera, or Boltor Prime to be able to reach decent crit chance.

 

[S.Faiz]

most common solution for such problem  will result is the good ones getting nerf. Wonder if they are going after arcane epidemic also.

[YandereWaifu]

im guessing you dont know how the vigilante effect works in its entirety, as it also affects non crits meaning any non crit weapon shot can now crit, any crit becomes an orange crit and any orange crit becomes a red crit (thats if the effect happens but it goes off pretty often for me with just 1 or 2 vigilante mods), the best thing would be to run a combo of mods from both sets, eg vigilante armaments + hunter munitions personally i recommend it on the torid, its an OP combo 

[Airwolfen]

15 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Change vigilante effect to give additive crit chance. Full set will give you +30% crit chance. This will make Vigilante effect becomes the opposite to the Hunter munitions, this will allow non-crit weapons like Tiberon, Dera, or Boltor Prime to be able to reach decent crit chance.
 

I like this Idea.

But lower. definitely lower. Unless you mean adding after other crit mods. in that case its fine. Before would be a bad idea though (how most additive buffs work)

[Rekkou]

2 minutes ago, YandereWaifu said:

im guessing you dont know how the vigilante effect works in its entirety, as it also affects non crits meaning any non crit weapon shot can now crit, any crit becomes an orange crit and any orange crit becomes a red crit (thats if the effect happens but it goes off pretty often for me with just 1 or 2 vigilante mods), the best thing would be to run a combo of mods from both sets, eg vigilante armaments + hunter munitions personally i recommend it on the torid, its an OP combo 

I'm guessing you never try them or haven't check the wiki recently. Vigilante effect does not work on normal hit

[Rolunde]

21 minutes ago, S.Faiz said:

most common solution for such problem  will result is the good ones getting nerf. Wonder if they are going after arcane epidemic also.

This, since the last Dev-stream (101) some people are anticipating an incoming nerf to Slash. So this is the most likely outcome.

While I'd like to see Slash stay as-is and see the other damage types buffed to match it, my suggestion is to enjoy it while you can because sooner or later "the meta" will likely shift... it is the way of things.

Cheers!

[Fallen_Echo]

How about we stop going for crit and make it status based?

+30% chance to enchance status effects (double duration, effect power, damage)

[Xolgys]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Fallen_Echo:

How about we stop going for crit and make it status based?

+30% chance to enchance status effects (double duration, effect power, damage)

right, double slash proccs...gas proccs...damage, duration and power, like buffing slash tics from 35% of total base dmg to 70% ? all at the same time ? right...

i dont see an issue with hunter munitions, its strong but it requires some specific crit weapons and makes them actually work well vs high armor, which they otherwise wouldnt just on their own. the issue is not that any of these mods are garbage, even tho i agree that hunter munitions outclasses the vigilante mods, but thats because the vigilante mods are meh in my opinion, at least balance wise if we compare it. nerfing hunter munitions is pointless since it has a double chance requirement, 1st u need a crit, which is easy ofc with some weapons, but then its 30% which is fair in my opinion and there are always wayns/weapons where it works better, that goes for anything.

now, if we really want to break the issue at hand down its ARMOR SCALING and the fact that only slash is really good vs targets with high armor, better said slash proccs. the problem here again is not how slash proccs work, its totally fine actually imo, BUT all other status effects are just mediocore. gas was nerfed hard, magnetic was always bad, radiation is good but its CC more than anything so it doesnt do anything on its own dmg/KPM wise. corrosive is a good effect but it requires enough procc/sec to really make a difference, unless its on zenistar for example but thats prolly the only really effective weapon to make use of it, all others, no matter how good and if 100% status chance or not, have trouble. either they strip armor well but lack the damage, or they have damage but lack status chance to strip armor 100% within a good time frame. soma prime for instance...around 22% status chance on max build (riven excluded) so it cant make effective use of slash proccs and neither off of corrosive proccs. everyone knows its good but it will fall off too vs armor....quickly. there is corrosive projection but that again is a topic of outclassing and the base issue is, again, ARMOR SCALING. if all other status effects were better in some way and if armor was not the way to make enemies stronger, besides dealing more damage, then the whole issue around slash wouldnt be as prominent. even then other status effects would require a buff. impact is a weak blast for example...why ? heat is a weak poison/gas procc, but it has CC...why ? the bit of CC is not too impotant, blast is just better and so is cold which increases status effect duration too, namely gas.

there are quite some obvious issues with all the status proccs besides slash. not meaning to nerf slash, rather buff the others or change them completely to something more useful and creative, or give them interactions like an enemy cooled down by a cold procc gets frozen in place from another one, causing a heat procc on it then would cause the ice to explode and cause damage. an enemy poisoned and then afflicted with a heat procc on top causes it to take silly acid damage or anything similar. status proccs need some creativity and enemies need various scaling types, not just silly armor values. if the problem is basically 1 thing then the one stat good vs it is the best of course, duh. if all other stats, status proccs in this case, are not on its level, some even without taking armor into account, of course noone uses them. please, who uses magnetic ? in pve ? at all ? gas/toxin proccs ignore shields, which is nice and creative, but it makes magnetic useless so change magnetic, just as an example. ofc armor is mostly a grineer issue but still, also vs other factions some status effects are just pointless even tho their flesh type for example requires corrosive for example vs ancients to max out dps vs them, corrosive/blast to be precise. would rather like to see corrosive also increasing the damage non armored targets take for instance, since its...well...corroding stuff, right ?

warframe has been fine since damage 2.0 for now, but i feel since the direction its evolving to is at least roughly clear since the last few updates, especially PoE, it is due to do something about the elemental and physical damage types in terms of usefulness and creativity. if that was done, slash would be just one way of many, right now its more or less the only way other than some frames who can effectively strip armor, or 4x CP ofc.

also, there is void damage now. would be neat to give weapons something, or give it a creative status effect too rather than making it operator exclusive imo. i feel much could be done that would make way more fun builds and elemental interactions possible and give the game much. the combat is its core below the grind on top of grind, if its fun grind is fun.

 

greetings.
 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Xydeth

[Fallen_Echo]

53 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

right, double slash proccs...gas proccs...damage, duration and power, like buffing slash tics from 35% of total base dmg to 70% ? all at the same time ? right...

I maybe wrong here but as far as i know you can only apply 1 status effect in one shot so that means only the status effect what managed to proc it gets the benefit and if you are unlucky and its impact the targets get a long stagger and thats all.