Disingenuous to Assign Value to Prime Accessories.

[mrfluffydeath]

Something that has always bothered me about Prime Access, but mostly Prime Accessories is the assignation of value to the items that can be purchased with Cash only.

It is arguably disingenuous and duplicitous to assign a value to something that loses all value which it lands in the hands of the final holder. In addition it is duplicitous to assign the price and decide what you are selling is.

At least the normal Prime Access gear gives Platinum which can be argued have a value and can continue to be traded and circulate. However the Prime Accessories (assigned aprice of $49.99 and supposed value of $110) Do not have that benefit.

Let's break that notion of a "$110" down.
First the Easy part.
DE must assign the value of $110 based on the price 2 90 day boosters (600 play each) which would cost 1200 platinum to buy from the in-game market. While there is no option to buy 1200 platinum directly, 1000 platinum and 170 platinum can purchased for $49.99 (maybe this is where the 'deal' and value comes in) and for $9.99 respectively. Now When I spend money on platinum, I would much have the platinum because it gives me many more options. If I had the choice of which 2 boosters I get 90s on I would agree that they would be work 600 platinum each but we are not given a choice. Not Given a choice of which 2 boosters covers the 200 platinum over 1000, so I can agree that maybe the 2 90 day boosters are worth (have a value of $49.99)

Now the hard part. A conjectured price of a the other 2 items. The most expensive Sugatra or Syandana does not cross the 150 Platinum Mark, while the most expensive armor set does not cross 100 platinum (That I could find.) The most Expensive Deluxe Set is the Loki set that comes with Armor, Multiple weapon skins, and a Lander skin for 350.  So lets assume for the sake of this discussion that the raw item "value" of the items is 300 Platinum. This is a quarter of the "value" of the boosters. meaning the remainder of the $110 'value' less $49.99 boosters 'value' ($61.01 for those playing the home game) is made entirely by the rarity, the notion that these items are untradeable, and the infinite cosmetic use we get out of them.

Now at this point counter-points can come up purely as "So you don't find the Prime Accessories is Worth it, Don't Buy it" (as a surprise I think some of the Prime Accessories have been more than "worth" it) or "I think the Prime Access Items have appropriate value, I've bought everyone they have put out" But this actually leads to my point. These are statements illustrating my own value-judgements or the hypothetical other individuals value-judgements of worth or value of Prime Accessories, not DE. DE can naturally assign their own value to a digital item they wish to sell. As the seller it is in their best interest to make it look like we the buyer are getting the best deal possible, hence the duplicity. The Value of something is only what is agreed upon mutually between a buyer and seller upon the transaction or there is none.

As an adult who can make rational value judgements for the most part I can declare and can expect DE to declare "caveat emptor" However, Warframe, Prime Access and Prime Accessories are not marketed to only adults and DE accepts sources of money that can be used by those who are not capable of making such rational value judgements (yes think of the children)

The Price that DE sets purely digital items can be Arbitrary. The Value they assign doubly so. It's better they don't list a value at all
 

Edited December 6, 2017 by mrfluffydeath
clarification

[DeMonkey]

You have a surprising vocabulary for someone for whom English doesn't appear to be vernacular. 

That said I agree entirely, there is no logical way of assigning value to Prime Accessories. If there was then Sugatras would be valued far lower than Syandanas since, at the end of the day, all they are is pixels.

Since it's subjective value, with nothing to compare it to, don't include it. Just say it's £33 if I want it.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DeMonkey

[taiiat]

pretty much anything and everything except a chair or a house technically has no value and assigning one to it isn't useful.
but that's just how things work.

you'd have to change the entire world for that to stop happening. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited December 6, 2017 by taiiat

[Emeryst]

I agree that DE should stop advertising the combined "value" for all tiers of prime access.

It is misleading at best because it gives the impression that you could buy all the components of prime access separately and it would add up to the stated "value" when in fact only the platinum and boosters can be acquired through an alternative method. So the "value" should only be stated for the plat/boosters components.

That said, all tiers of prime access does prove to be a good deal compared to normal plat prices bought without a discount coupon. And other than the exclusive profile icons, the separation of prime accessories gives a decent option for paying players that want to farm for the prime parts in game. Over the years, I have gotten most of the prime accessories packs when the cosmetics are fashionable which costs about $15/month, a reasonable amount for supporting a game that I play 30-80 hrs per month.

It is not that much of a concern as a paying player because in the end most players will overlook the stated "value" and just judge the items in the bundle against the actual price. Also it is assumed there shouldn't be any "children" due to the mature rating that is declared along the way of downloading the game and creating an account. Of course, the maturity of some players in-game has lead me to believe otherwise.

[mrfluffydeath]

If the Mature Rating were an Age gate I would agree with your statement regarding Children. However, Warframe.com only requires a user agree to be 13 years of age to create an account and download the client. Once their account is created they have access to all of the same features as any adult. A individual needs to be 18 before they can be issued a credit card, if a parent lets a child use their credit card for prime access(ories) that's on the parent. However, the Steam Card, and Gift Cards options that are available for use as a purchasing medium do not have such an age restriction.  A 13 year old is not an adult. SInce Psychologically speaking the Adult brain is not completely formed in terms of reason and consequence  until even roughly age 25, 13 falls way short of that mark.

Even we are dreaming up simple changes. In general I only care about Armor. I don't care for Sugatras as there are few classes of weapons I feel they look appropriate on and Syandana's can be hit and miss. Even if you don't do it when the Prime Accessories are released. Once a year allow us to separate out the parts from Prime Accessories packs we want to buy. Charge a Premium for the Privilege. New Years weekend or Chinese New Year open up all of the released prime accessories for Sale Individually as a premium. I would drop $100-$200 but not to own items I don't ever want and will just sit unused.
 

Edited December 6, 2017 by mrfluffydeath

[mrfluffydeath]

35 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

You have a surprising vocabulary for someone for whom English doesn't appear to be vernacular. 

 

English is/was my native language, I've picked up a few others to the point where I end up switching to other languages internally when the thought I am trying to make is conveyed simpler in another tongue. In the end, Age and neurological issues have ruined all presentation. I will still take this statement as the complement I believe it was intended.

[DeMonkey]

12 minutes ago, mrfluffydeath said:

English is/was my native language, I've picked up a few others to the point where I end up switching to other languages internally when the thought I am trying to make is conveyed simpler in another tongue. In the end, Age and neurological issues have ruined all presentation. I will still take this statement as the complement I believe it was intended.

Ah, yeah it was the presentation and sentence structure that led me to assume otherwise.

It was indeed intended to be a compliment, it's not everyday I see a thread containing words such as disingenuous and duplicitous. Although one could argue that that's due to the fact that it's become ineloquent to do so since not many are familiar with the words nowadays.

34 minutes ago, Emeryst said:

It is not that much of a concern as a paying player because in the end most players will overlook the stated "value" and just judge the items in the bundle against the actual price.

Indeed, and that's absolutely what we should be judging it against. 

Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about, but it seems the proposed 'value' is there simply to make you think you're getting it for a good price, which is arguably manipulative.

''CAN I USE A COUPON OR OTHER DISCOUNT OFFER ON PRIME ACCESS?

No, Prime Access is its own uniquely valued program and other offers or coupons will not apply.''

In fact, based on ^that^ surely the only thing prime Accessories can be valued against is other Prime Accessories, and since no Prime Accessories has ever been sold for £73 it shoudn't be valued as such.

[x-WhiteDevil-x]

My issue with it is combining the boosters and the cosmetics together for a price. I for one do not have 6-8+ hrs a day to play the game and fully utilize those boosters but i would like to own those prime cosmetics for my collection. So unwillingly, i have to pay $50.

If I could just get the prime cosmetics for a price of $10-$15 or priced something similar to the Tennogen items, i would happily support it. But i don't think DE is going to make any changes to this anytime soon.

[DatDarkOne]

18 hours ago, mrfluffydeath said:

If the Mature Rating were an Age gate I would agree with your statement regarding Children. However, Warframe.com only requires a user agree to be 13 years of age to create an account and download the client. Once their account is created they have access to all of the same features as any adult. A individual needs to be 18 before they can be issued a credit card, if a parent lets a child use their credit card for prime access(ories) that's on the parent. However, the Steam Card, and Gift Cards options that are available for use as a purchasing medium do not have such an age restriction.  A 13 year old is not an adult. SInce Psychologically speaking the Adult brain is not completely formed in terms of reason and consequence  until even roughly age 25, 13 falls way short of that mark.

I bolded and underlined the important part.  Until the child is an adult, it's on the parent.  The parent should be aware of how their child is paying for Steam cards or gift cards.  But this is pretty much a moot point in that the Parent should be aware that their child is playing a Mature rated game.  Should a child be doing any of this without the parent knowing and/or approval, then that is bad parenting.  l

[mrfluffydeath]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I bolded and underlined the important part.  Until the child is an adult, it's on the parent.  The parent should be aware of how their child is paying for Steam cards or gift cards.  But this is pretty much a moot point in that the Parent should be aware that their child is playing a Mature rated game.  Should a child be doing any of this without the parent knowing and/or approval, then that is bad parenting.  l

Holidays are coming, do your parents know how you received 100% of your gift cards and how you spent them? 

The theory of game ratings is nice and all. Living in a world of theory would be wonderful. Despite it's "Mature" Rating. Digital Extremes does nothing  but a check box asking if an individual is 13 years or old before allowing them to play. No parental supervision required before or after. (I am not discussing a 10 year old is lying and clicks the check box) Digital Extremes is expecting the game to be able to be played by 13 year olds with no expectations of parental involvement. (I am still reviewing the ToS and EULA. regarding differences in age and the binding portions regarding minors and their parents. Which as always brings up all the questions regarding ToS and EULAs, their  enforcement, how binding they are vs the fact that no individual can service the court system versus the companies with such agreements to answer these questions).

Edited December 7, 2017 by mrfluffydeath

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, mrfluffydeath said:

Holidays are coming, do your parents know how you received 100% of your gift cards and how you spent them?

I'm a 45 year old grown man.  My parents haven't needed to worry about how I receive or spend my money for more than 27 years.  

[mrfluffydeath]

As a fellow over 40-person, I will rephrase, while not assuming you have kids of your own. Any of the other fellow adults in your life, do you think they are 100% aware of the source, the quantity the value, and ultimately the expenditure of all the gift cards the kids receive. When we were younger it was a hell of a lot easier for out parents to keep tabs on what our 13 year old selves were spending, because we were buying physical goods, from physical brick and mortar locations that our parents likely drove us to. That just doesn't apply any-more and definitely does not in this circumstance.

Man those were the days, my Grandmother used to give me $50 Waldenbooks gift cards(certificates). Waldenbooks there's showing my age.

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by mrfluffydeath
F-in Waldenbooks.

[DatDarkOne]

21 minutes ago, mrfluffydeath said:

As a fellow over 40-person, I will rephrase, while not assuming you have kids of your own. Any of the other fellow adults in your life, do you think they are 100% aware of the source, the quantity the value, and ultimately the expenditure of all the gift cards the kids receive. When we were younger it was a hell of a lot easier for out parents to keep tabs on what our 13 year old selves were spending, because we were buying physical goods, from physical brick and mortar locations that our parents likely drove us to. That just doesn't apply any-more and definitely does not in this circumstance.

 Having the bought goods be digital transfers doesn't change this aspect at all.  It's nice that some companies and other entities try to place age limits and/or warnings.  It's still not ever suppose to replace a parent who is active in their child's well being.  For example: If child is interested in something, it might be wise for the parent to learn more about that thing.  Even if it's just simply reading the instructions.  :D 

Edited December 7, 2017 by DatDarkOne
removed formating

[mrfluffydeath]

27 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 Having the bought goods be digital transfers doesn't change this aspect at all.  It's nice that some companies and other entities try to place age limits and/or warnings.  It's still not ever suppose to replace a parent who is active in their child's well being.  For example: If child is interested in something, it might be wise for the parent to learn more about that thing.  Even if it's just simply reading the instructions.  :D 

Having raised a now 22 year old  and a 17 year old to night completion I can't disagree with you. However, despite a parents best efforts on that transition between "child" to "adult" it becomes increasingly difficult to remain aware of 100% of what remains important to ones kid. (I Use will Child to denote being younger than teen, kid to denote entity being reared by adult, no matter the age. I have 2 kids, 22, and 17, one is now an adult, one is not a child but is definitely not an adult but he is practicing) In gets blurry when you are talking about 15, 16, or 17 year old. because they are not children. They are definitely not adults. They are in training, They (hopefully) haven't had to have any adult-life "games"  or even scrimmages yet, but in there are probably some adult-life practice sessions. Learning to drive, getting the license. Surviving High school. Becoming different people than your parents. Becoming different people than whom even your parents want you to be. Becoming your own person. That includes not sharing everything that goes on with ones parent, especially if the goings on are something that appears to be harmless and consequence free.

I guess my bottom line is, " Hey DE, could you remove some text that makes you appear a little skeevy, and money grubbing while giving me one less worry about recommending your title to my siblings for their kids to play." Because I guarantee more kids will look at the raw cost with out a value and ask their parents if it's ok, than if they saw the cost attached to a value making it look like they got an amazing deal. (and yes some kids would just ask if it's ok anyway and some kids would just purchase it anyway, but I am looking for it to skew more towards the asking.)

Thank you for your insights and contributions to the topic I found it valuable and through it I ended up bring up my kids which always gives me warm fuzzies.

Edited December 7, 2017 by mrfluffydeath
accidently some words and thanks.

[mrfluffydeath]

So Warframe's Mature Rating is for Blood and Gore and for Violence. Perhaps if they added "Microtransactions" and "Business Transation's Shadiness under debate" (we're debating it now) to the Mature tag it would be enough. Perhaps those kinds of items should be considered under the ratings schema for games.