Opinion on rivens

[BlackCoMerc]

7 minutes ago, Sader said:

Everything you just mentioned has objectively worse rewards than in a sortie.

You keep saying "Poorly designed" but I don't think you know what that means. Sorties are missions with one variable changed, one simple variable, which in many cases makes a mission easier rather than harder.

Relics: How many of the same relics do you need to open? Beyond the need for barro k'teer (who sucked last week anyway), can't see much of a reason to open relics for frames / weapons you likely own. Syndicates? You mention "tedious" yet you're talking about missions where you need to find the 8 hidden baubles to get the full reward, and if you aren't finding the 8 hidden baubles whats the point because one of those baubles can be worth more then the entire mission? Spy missions? Ironically Spy Missions are the easiest type of sortie mission simply because the random variable matters even less when you can simply avoid all the enemies anyway.

Btw - Todays sortie is super easy too solo.

Rewards aren't great anywhere. But most Missions are FUN.

But Sorties offer a unique combo of lackluster reward tables AND super tedious, CC Spam game play, due to spongy one shot killers with inflated TTK. Oh...and the frank absurd player restrictions and conditions.

That's why I loathe Sorties: because they're sheer Tedium.

[SenorClipClop]

On 12/7/2017 at 9:19 AM, S.Dust said:

Even if you mostly get rivens for underrated weapons the market still doesn't act kindly to those rivens they're hard to sell and are out shined and prices fluctuate alot.

Have you ever come across weapons you really like for some non-stat reason (looks, sounds, pure fun, just the way it feels in your hands) but can't justify playing it in high-level content due to subpar stats? For me, that was the Stradavar. I traded a Riven I didn't want (I think it was a Supra Riven) for a Strad Riven, rerolled it a couple times and now have a monster that I enjoy for non-stat reasons that is now also stat-relevant and can handle anything I need it to.

Rivens for these underrated (non-meta) weapons don't sell for plat because plat traders and the meta have a very large crossover, but if you step outside that ring and into Rivens for non-meta weapons and the mindset around what makes these Rivens desirable (see my above paragraph), you find tons of Tenno looking for mod-for-mod trades to find stuff to help bring more of their Arsenal up to speed with the meta weapons. Hek, I've even traded veiled Rivens for unveiled ones because I liked the other Tenno's unveiled and they find unveiling challenges fun (plus I'm sure they'd like a second chance to get a riven for a weapon they prefer).

Incidentally, I saw someone earlier in the thread call the Rubico mediocre. If anyone has a Rubico Riven they don't value too highly, I have a Kohm riven I'd be willing to trade for such a mod. My Kohm Riven has bonus Multishot, Toxin damage, bonus damage to Infested. It sounds pretty good, I just don't really like the Kohm.

Edited December 11, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Sader]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Rewards aren't great anywhere. But most Missions are FUN.

But Sorties offer a unique combo of lackluster reward tables AND super tedious, CC Spam game play, due to spongy one shot killers with inflated TTK. Oh...and the frank absurd player restrictions and conditions.

That's why I loathe Sorties: because they're sheer Tedium.

Aren't you bored of one shotting level 30 enemies that can't hurt you? Do you get some sort of accomplishment out of that or something? Because thats probably the most boring part of this game.

The final mission of todays sortie is a Grineer Survival with augmented enemy armor. I brought a mirage (glass cannon 217% power str/ 239% duration) a scourge and dual cestra (both ironically made awesome with rivens you claim are useless). Enemies melted but they could also one shot me if I played it wrong. Resulting in 10 minutes of playing a space ninja game like an actual space ninja: Fast, Mobile and Deadly.

I wish they would take the time to tailor make solo missions like this, so I didn't have to purposefully handicap myself in ways to get a challenge out of this game. There are obviously far easier ways to do this mission, hell I could have just used my wukong build and just not died ever. Valkyrie could have slaughtered it, the list goes on. 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Sader
Added Video.

[SenorClipClop]

On 12/10/2017 at 8:22 AM, Soul-scar said:

More RNG includes a one in god knows to get a riven from a sortie

It's about 1 in 4, or more specifically 25.9%. This is public knowledge, available the patch notes on the launcher, and here.

[(XBOX)dude1286]

I just wish I could sell unrolled rivens for 50p or less. I get duplicates for weapons and would like to get rid of them without dissolving them into endo/credits. I have an idea to improve rivens, but would be better off in its own thread and would ruin the current riven marketplace.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Sader said:

Aren't you bored of one shotting level 30 enemies that can't hurt you? Do you get some sort of accomplishment out of that or something? Because thats probably the most boring part of this game.

The final mission of todays sortie is a Grineer Survival with augmented enemy armor. I brought a mirage (glass cannon 217% power str/ 239% duration) a scourge and dual cestra (both ironically made awesome with rivens you claim are useless). Enemies melted but they could also one shot me if I played it wrong. Resulting in 10 minutes of playing a space ninja game like an actual space ninja: Fast, Mobile and Deadly.

I wish they would take the time to tailor make solo missions like this, so I didn't have to purposefully handicap myself in ways to get a challenge out of this game. There are obviously far easier ways to do this mission, hell I could have just used my wukong build and just not died ever. Valkyrie could have slaughtered it, the list goes on. 

 

Sure I get bored.

But that trivial content is where 90% of rewards are found. That's a problem.

But so is the opposite: the Tedium of Sorties. I DESPISE the health bar as difficulty mentality. I hate sponges. It's a pet peeves, because it's lazy design.

Add to that the arbitrary restrictions, the scarcity of viable gear, the need to level that gear multiple times due to Forma, the terrible drops...and it all adds up to more pointless Tedium than I care for in games.

If I want to be challenged, I own a heavily modded copy of Witcher 3 and Skyrim, and several Souks titles. Those games, do challenge far better than Warframe.

[SenorClipClop]

11 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

If I want to be challenged, I own a heavily modded copy of Witcher 3 and Skyrim, and several Souks titles. Those games, do challenge far better than Warframe.

I think the root of your gripe is pretty fundamental to the game, though: Warframe isn't really designed to challenge the player's skills. Or at least, it never requires the player to have a decent amount of skill as a win condition. Warframe is a free-to-play game, and as such needs to rake in as many players as possible to keep itself afloat. Players come to this game for many reasons: some come seeking a challenge, some for the collect-athon, some for the art, some for the story, and some just to relax after a day of work with a semi-casual pick-up-and-play shooter. With this varied palette of players, having certain parts of the game be very challenging would mean that the casual players wouldn't want to play that content. But in order to give incentive for challenge-hungry players to do that challenging content, there needs to be solid rewards that can't be gotten elsewhere. If those rewards can be gotten easily, many won't bother with the challenges, but if those rewards are exclusive to challenges, casual players might feel punished for not taking this game as seriously. It's a balance that is near impossible to find, and it's only made harder by my next point.

My next point is that with our incredibly broad arsenal, there is always something we can slap together to trivialize any obstacle in this game. In order to give us real challenge, they would have to nerf at least half of the things we're allowed to do. Take Ivara, for instance (and no, I'm not saying "nerf Ivara"). She can remain permanently undetected with relative ease, trivializing basically any enemy she encounters. We also have a mod for Daggers in this game that deletes nearly any non-boss enemy in the game as well. DE has given the player character phenomenal power, and in order to give us challenge, they have to either outcheese our cheese or severely limit what we can do.

EDIT: I guess my point is that challenge with a "worthwhile" and exclusive reward might be hard to come by in this game and will only ever amount to being a small part of it. If you want challenge as a base requirement for an entire game, Warframe is not that game.

Edited December 12, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[BlackCoMerc]

7 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

I think the root of your gripe is pretty fundamental to the game, though: Warframe isn't really designed to challenge the player's skills. Or at least, it never requires the player to have a decent amount of skill as a win condition. Warframe is a free-to-play game, and as such needs to rake in as many players as possible to keep itself afloat. Players come to this game for many reasons: some come seeking a challenge, some for the collect-athon, some for the art, some for the story, and some just to relax after a day of work with a semi-casual pick-up-and-play shooter. With this varied palette of players, having certain parts of the game be very challenging would mean that the casual players wouldn't want to play that content. But in order to give incentive for challenge-hungry players to do that challenging content, there needs to be solid rewards that can't be gotten elsewhere. If those rewards can be gotten easily, many won't bother with the challenges, but if those rewards are exclusive to challenges, casual players might feel punished for not taking this game as seriously. It's a balance that is near impossible to find, and it's only made harder by my next point.

My next point is that with our incredibly broad arsenal, there is always something we can slap together to trivialize any obstacle in this game. In order to give us real challenge, they would have to nerf at least half of the things we're allowed to do. Take Ivara, for instance (and no, I'm not saying "nerf Ivara"). She can remain permanently undetected with relative ease, trivializing basically any enemy she encounters. We also have a mod for Daggers in this game that deletes nearly any non-boss enemy in the game as well. DE has given the player character phenomenal power, and in order to give us challenge, they have to either outcheese our cheese or severely limit what we can do.

EDIT: I guess my point is that challenge with a "worthwhile" and exclusive reward might be hard to come by in this game and will only ever amount to being a small part of it. If you want challenge as a base requirement for an entire game, Warframe is not that game.

I agree with this. And I really don't come here for the challenge. I come for the game play itself. 

Warframe is a game that let's you do the crazy stuff usually seen in cutscenes, while playing. The game play is the attraction (which is why I find Operators so puzzling; they're game play is a strictly subpar Experience to Frames, after all). Compromise that gameplay at this late date, at your peril.

[(PSN)sowl-Reapa]

Hi think riven are a great thing for multiple reasons.

1. You can see by popularity what should/shouldn't be reworked or disposition value.

2. For endurance runs it takes longer for your favourite weapons to drop off if your like me and love some of the lesser used weapons. 

Negative is a lot of people buy rivens yet stay at levels where weapons don't need buffs there viable. Secondly if DE are going to give us these and make us stronger give us the content to use them in, content starting at a high level not having to play for an hour before we get to use them. Simulacrum is maxed at 150 but to go higher it takes time and nor everyone has time to do this.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sausageinyourdon said:

Hi think riven are a great thing for multiple reasons.

1. You can see by popularity what should/shouldn't be reworked or disposition value.

2. For endurance runs it takes longer for your favourite weapons to drop off if your like me and love some of the lesser used weapons. 

Negative is a lot of people buy rivens yet stay at levels where weapons don't need buffs there viable. Secondly if DE are going to give us these and make us stronger give us the content to use them in, content starting at a high level not having to play for an hour before we get to use them. Simulacrum is maxed at 150 but to go higher it takes time and nor everyone has time to do this.

We don't need more power creep just because Rivens exist.

When I started, T4 was End Game content. And decently tough. If they'd removed armor scaling on 90% of enemies and left the T4 damage bonus mostly intact, it would have been amazing.

Instead, we got the garbage raids and terrible Sorties because edge Lords think their ability to tolerate Tedium makes them special, and that larger health bars equal more challenging content.

So please, no more power creep. Balance the game instead.

[(PSN)sowl-Reapa]

15 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

We don't need more power creep just because Rivens exist.

When I started, T4 was End Game content. And decently tough. If they'd removed armor scaling on 90% of enemies and left the T4 damage bonus mostly intact, it would have been amazing.

Instead, we got the garbage raids and terrible Sorties because edge Lords think their ability to tolerate Tedium makes them special, and that larger health bars equal more challenging content.

So please, no more power creep. Balance the game instead.

This is just how I feel. This is an opinion based post. Nothings changing let's be honest more new content is all were going to keep getting.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

It depends on your viewpoint really. I think they’re far from a failure, but not quite a success. 

I just recently got a Riven for the Stug. A weapon I’ve never bothered to give a shot. It’s quickly becoming one of my favorite secondaries.

 

[kingdomeTHEMADcthulhu]

I have come to the understanding that rivins = trap theres no way to slowly refine stuff just pure luck its like a farm able loot crate that bullys you constantly with no chance of freedom till fixed any rivin is going straight to the idiots who feel lucky .