Constructive Feedback: Archwing

[Vespilan]

To get this right out of the way: I love archwing. I think is an exceptionally awesome idea, the controlls in themselves are just fun and I love it that you can flip yourself upside down, it just adds so much more freedom to it!

Nonetheless many people will not agree with me. Why is that so? How can we change that?
Here are my thoughts.

1. Controls
Like already mentioned I personally love the way archwing is played. Many people do not because of the controls. My suggestion is to either:
a) add a button or a combination of keys (like shift+ctrl) to quickly reset your archwings rotation so you're not upsidedown anymore
b) Remove the flippyness entirely (which should only be the very last resort because it makes archwing all the more awesome!)

Another problem I see in controls is that players are used to the very precise movement of their warframe when it is on foot, whereas archwing just cannot deliver that. If it would, it wouldn't be special and feel different anymore, would it? However I still think that archwings should be less.. slugish. You feel it every time breaking or taking a turn.

2. Level design
Warframe is a game about speed! You slide, roll, bulletjump your way past enemy hords in the blink of an eye! This conveys the feeling of ninja-ness, of being a nimble space-warrior! 
Archwing? You're basically bumping from one wall to another unless you're going really slow, which, in turn, takes away that cool space-ninja feeling.

I would suggest more open tiles and less narrow pathways and obstacles. Although I still see, that it is hard to find the middle-ground between so-easy-that-its-boring and so-challenging-that-I-wont-do-it.

Also an issue while archwing is rarely played is, that it has nothing really speaking for it except for mastery points. You don't have any archwing-exclusive ressources like they did it with the plains and regular mods can be found in archwing missions but not the other way around. But more for mods at point 4.

3. Integration
Archwing missions are badly integrated into the normal game. In my opinion there should be more transitions between regular mission and archwing, which could be done as follows:

• Sabotage: Add a chance, that using a fuel cell instead of a cooling cell will cause the ship to explode and blast tenno into space, where they have to continue by archwing. This would also make it more desireable to secure the cooling cells instead to just rush through the lasers and shoot them. 
• Survival: When life support goes to 0%, staying on the ship become impossible due to health reasons or whatsoever. Glass windows perrish and the vacuum causes tenno to be drawn into open space.
• Exterminate: Add a slight chance, that high-ranked personell flees through emergency capsules. You will need to chase them in archwing then (NOT THROUGH A SHIP WRECK BUT THROUGH (more or less) OPEN SPACE!)
• Void fissure: Add archwing void fissures.
• Assassination: Maybe add an assassination target which must be fought in open space. 
• Plains of Eidolon: Enable the usage of archwing weapons in archwing mode instead of regular weapons and only throw the player out of the archwing when it is destroyed. Maybe also introduce a underwater-world which can only be explored by archwing in a future update? Or when the weather-update has been introduced let eidolon caves be flooded and allow exporing by archwing? 
• etc.

Once archwing has reached a point where the majority of the community are content with its state, it should also be added to sorties. 

4. Power
One reason why Warframe is such a huge success is that it constantly "rewards" the player. It makes you feel powerful when you slash your ways through survival missions or when you obliderate that assassination target with just a single shot from your favorite BFG. Archwing does not always deliver that. This might be because of how mods are used for archwing.
Archwings have their own, individual mods and so do archwing weapon. Obtaining good mods is sorcery and because there are only so few archwing mods there is also practically no variaty in builds. 

I would suggest to scrap archwing mods, refund used endo and credits of course, and allow the usage of regular mods. Archwings can use warframe mods and weapons can use respective weapon mods. 

 

So yeah. That was my ideas. Any comments? Your suggestions? 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Vespilan

[TARINunit9]

4 minutes ago, Vespilan said:

a) add a button or a combination of keys (like shift+ctrl) to quickly reset your archwings rotation so you're not upsidedown anymore
b) Remove the flippyness entirely (which should only be the very last resort because it makes archwing all the more awesome!)

They combined these into one. IIRC, you can press a button -- specifically, a button in the pause -> settings menu -- to switch between flippiness and no flippiness

While we're on the notion of control, I'm not convinced turning the archwing into a plane was a good idea in the Plains. I'd like to see how it feels if we're riding a jetpack. And while we're talking about hte plains, GET RID OF THOSE STUPID ARCHWING-DISABLING HOMING ROCKETS THAT ALL THE BUTCHERS CAN SHOOT or at least nerf them so it takes more than one single solitary rocket to disable your entire Archwing. It's frigging BS design

But you also forget step zero: someone at DE has to actually go over to the Archwing programming desk and actually do some work. DE has a bad case of "developer ADHD" that makes them amazing at being good people but really bad at doing anything on Archwing

[Vespilan]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb TARINunit9:

They combined these into one. IIRC, you can press a button -- specifically, a button in the pause -> settings menu -- to switch between flippiness and no flippiness

Really? Oh wow, I didn't even notice... I will have to check that out next time I'm online.

[ACULonSeer]

18 minutes ago, Vespilan said:

To get this right out of the way: I love archwing. I think is an exceptionally awesome idea, the controlls in themselves are just fun and I love it that you can flip yourself upside down, it just adds so much more freedom to it!

Nonetheless many people will not agree with me. Why is that so? How can we change that?
Here are my thoughts.

1. Controls
Like already mentioned I personally love the way archwing is played. Many people do not because of the controls. My suggestion is to either:
a) add a button or a combination of keys (like shift+ctrl) to quickly reset your archwings rotation so you're not upsidedown anymore
b) Remove the flippyness entirely (which should only be the very last resort because it makes archwing all the more awesome!)

Another problem I see in controls is that players are used to the very precise movement of their warframe when it is on foot, whereas archwing just cannot deliver that. If it would, it wouldn't be special and feel different anymore, would it? However I still think that archwings should be less.. slugish. You feel it every time breaking or taking a turn.

2. Level design
Warframe is a game about speed! You slide, roll, bulletjump your way past enemy hords in the blink of an eye! This conveys the feeling of ninja-ness, of being a nimble space-warrior! 
Archwing? You're basically bumping from one wall to another unless you're going really slow, which, in turn, takes away that cool space-ninja feeling.

I would suggest more open tiles and less narrow pathways and obstacles. Although I still see, that it is hard to find the middle-ground between so-easy-that-its-boring and so-challenging-that-I-wont-do-it.

Also an issue while archwing is rarely played is, that it has nothing really speaking for it except for mastery points. You don't have any archwing-exclusive ressources like they did it with the plains and regular mods can be found in archwing missions but not the other way around. But more for mods at point 4.

3. Integration
Archwing missions are badly integrated into the normal game. In my opinion there should be more transitions between regular mission and archwing, which could be done as follows:

• Sabotage: Add a chance, that using a fuel cell instead of a cooling cell will cause the ship to explode and blast tenno into space, where they have to continue by archwing. This would also make it more desireable to secure the cooling cells instead to just rush through the lasers and shoot them. 
• Survival: When life support goes to 0%, staying on the ship become impossible due to health reasons or whatsoever. Glass windows perrish and the vacuum causes tenno to be drawn into open space.
• Exterminate: Add a slight chance, that high-ranked personell flees through emergency capsules. You will need to chase them in archwing then (NOT THROUGH A SHIP WRECK BUT THROUGH (more or less) OPEN SPACE!)
• Void fissure: Add archwing void fissures.
• Assassination: Maybe add an assassination target which must be fought in open space. 
• Plains of Eidolon: Enable the usage of archwing weapons in archwing mode instead of regular weapons and only throw the player out of the archwing when it is destroyed. Maybe also introduce a underwater-world which can only be explored by archwing in a future update? Or when the weather-update has been introduced let eidolon caves be flooded and allow exporing by archwing? 
• etc.

Once archwing has reached a point where the majority of the community are content with its state, it should also be added to sorties. 

4. Power
One reason why Warframe is such a huge success is that it constantly "rewards" the player. It makes you feel powerful when you slash your ways through survival missions or when you obliderate that assassination target with just a single shot from your favorite BFG. Archwing does not always deliver that. This might be because of how mods are used for archwing.
Archwings have their own, individual mods and so do archwing weapon. Obtaining good mods is sorcery and because there are only so few archwing mods there is also practically no variaty in builds. 

I would suggest to scrap archwing mods, refund used endo and credits of course, and allow the usage of regular mods. Archwings can use warframe mods and weapons can use respective weapon mods. 

 

So yeah. That was my ideas. Any comments? Your suggestions? 

More challenge. Ive never used an Archwing's abilities, and only used my gun once. Most of the time i just spam melee because the enemies are just that easy to kill.

[ajwalker65]

My main issue with Archwing are those narrow corridors. Why would you fly through a hallway when it would be easier to land and sprint/bullet jump/slide? Flying through a debris filled map in, out and through mangled ships is disorientating. If I were a real space ninja, I'd land and use the zero-g environment to bound through the environment on foot instead of trying to fly a jetpack through the eye of a needle. It's dumb.

[LSG501]

My biggest issues with archwing at the moment (and I've been doing it a fair bit lately due to adding some forma to them) which have become more noticable due to the way archwing seems to have had a speed buff in the last 2 updates. 

• lack of variety in the modding options, they're all pretty much done the same, archwings have the usual health, armor, shields, then the strength, range duration and either increase energy or efficiency mods with the last slot being used in most cases for the augment.  Weapons have the same issues.   At the end of the day this isn't a major problem though. 
• Controls, while the controls are fine (I use the non experimental ones iirc) some of the ways the archwing reacts is unhelpful.  When you're changing direction for example it does a wide loop rather than turning on the spot, there's no 'acceleration curve' so you're either stationary or max speed which is painful in closed environments like corpus ships.  You also have no slow down if you go left then right, you stay at max speed which can make 'fine adjustments' tricky or you end up playing pinball against the walls etc with you being the ball. 
• But my biggest issue is something so simple and it's called slowing down.  On plains I can literally get from one side to the other of the map in about 10 seconds, I can get to max speed in under a second yet it takes me about half the map to slow down.... I know we're only really able to use the archwings as a glorified taxi on the plains but I'd like to be able to stop when I reach my destination.  The same issue is in space too. 

[Vespilan]

Yeah the last point you mentioned with slowing down on the plans is especially painfull. I think they said in a Devsstream that it has been "optimized for dynamic movement" or something like that. You could always just press E to leave, I guess, but that of curse would throw you out of archwing. 

I have also played even more archwing lately and what I realized is that it feels like an unfinished mod for Warframe. Its just so... unpolished. For example when you're downed you just sorta hang there. Not only that the animation is weird because its just normal but without a weapon equiped but you also cant do anything at all. You cant even help reviving teammates with fighting of enemies. Oh and there is absolutely no Integration of the operator, which by now has come to play a key role in players Identity.