Are We Really Space Ninja's?

[EinRyu]

I've been playing this game for a few months now, gotten the hang of things, fallen pretty in love with this game. But this one thing keeps nagging me, the selling point in this game is more or less the fact that you play as "Bad &#! Space Ninja's" But.... I hardly feel like a ninja. Tell me how going guns blazing on everything in sight makes me feel like a sneaky, Ninja who kills before others even see it coming, and disappears as fast as you appeared. I feel more like a bomb waiting to go off, I land on that Grineer Ship, I tell myself a few words of encouragment, stroke my cyber ego, and spray my Gorgon all over the damn place laughing like a maniac and everything falls before me.

 

In the end, I feel like this game never actually tried being a game that's well... Ninja Like. The Melee Mechanics are... abysmal. I mean, I use my Orthos all the time, but... I'm forced no matter how much I like it, to pull out that Gorgon, or what ever full auto gun I can get my hands on in any mission that goes over 50~ - 60~ And I do find Melee Combat enjoyable yet I also find it quite boring, where is the variation? Why am I using 1 set attack pattern over and over again, then finding that the normal attacking is completely useless and reverting to constant charge attacks, it's just repetetive, do SOMETHING with melee, switch it up. Add finishers, make stealth kills... Kills? Make a combo system maybe, start making mods that make it so you aren't looking at the same damn attack combo over and over and over again till you feel like your eyes are glazing over.

 

Than comes my last point, and what I feel is the most important, Stealth Gameplay. I understand that the Devs are working on it, but it should have been there from the start (Atleast in my opinion) We're Ninja's I feel that by default means "Stealth" But the game as of now, makes that damn near impossible. Yeah, it's nice having a Shade cloak you in the middle of 30 infected, or being a Loki and cloaking and having everything be like "Wtf", or even being an Ash and quickly using Smoke Screen, and clearing everything out with those sexy pimped Dual Zoren (If you're like me) But the fact still remains, you just can't do a stealth run.

 

When I enter a Grineer map, I'll be all Stealthy like, my Paris drawn, taking out those few straglers that I can't avoid, than BAM, 1 Grineer sees me. ONE, And all hell breaks lose, that would-be stealth run is officially Done, those 2 minutes of living in the shadows done, because right after he sees me and I take him out, some random Grineer taps a console, and for the next 5 minutes, I'm either rushing my &#! to the objective, or clearing out the 300 Grineer that come through every doorway, sewage drain, and closet in the damn place. Then you have stealth kills... which really can't be called "Stealth Kills" and more like "Stealth Staggers" because when you do that "Stealth Kill" you do that awesome animation, you walk away thinking that guys totally dead, 5 seconds later he's getting back up with full health spraying you like nothing happened, I mean honestly, wth is the point in having a stealth kill mechanic if it doesn't KILL them?

 

In the long run, rework Melee so it's viable PLEASE, I mean yeah it's great to have fun with if you like cutting people in half, but you can't be a pure melee player as of right now, something I REALLY want to do. And make it so that Stealth is more... Stealthy? Have the ability to maybe destroy Control Panels, make it so if an enemy only catches a glimpse of you they don't go "Ermehgawd Enemy Sighted Everyone FIRE!!!" and turning you into swisscheese, make it so they go to where you were, and actually take a few seconds to see if they actually saw you, make it so you can remove the agro that you would have gained, and also, make it so that if you get through a boss run or something like that, when you get to said boss with out alerting any alarms, or even killing anybody, the boss only has say it's personal bodyguard, or the people who would normally spawn in that area, not if you attack said boss every enemy on said map pours in the area. And for god sakes, let use deactivate alarms so that we can defuse those otherwise horrible situations, I'm tired of hearing her say "You've been spotted ready your weapons" because 1 guy, 30 meters back saw me and activated an alarm when I'm half way through the map and he's way back in the starting area.

 

Anyhow what do you guys think? I know this has been pretty long winded, and honestly may sound pretty biased, and just some idiots expierences, but I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way. I mean honestly Ninja=Stealth you seriously can't say it doesn't.

[RoboDoge]

Ogris. Only answer to all this. Go figure it out.

[PsychedelicSnake]

You don't have to go guns blazing. Stealth may not be easy, but from my own experiences, it is possible.

[gvgeri]

Ok, about melee, SOMEONE said that they don't want to work on it, because it would feel like they were ripping off devil may cry or something along those lines.

 

 

And about stealth, they are working on it. I'm pretty sure it's gonna suck, because: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEEcEbzpII0 this.

[Numot]

Space warriors. Frankly the tenno come off as samurai and not ninjas, save Ash/Loki.

[EinRyu]

Ogris. Only answer to all this. Go figure it out.

Sad but true.

 

And I also know that you don't HAVE to go guns blazing, but the current game just doesn't allow a full stealth run. And what I would qualify as a valid stealth run, is no shots fired. Just a full run with at most a few stealth kills, no alarms tripped none of that derpy stuff. I can do it on some Corpus maps and even infected, but Grineer just push the red button the instant you walk through a door, and I feel that needs to be changed.

[Onite]

Using guns can still be very ninja like. but its all up to the efficiency of the user. It basically defines a good ninja and a bad ninja. Being a ninja and doing it impressively requires alot of dexterity, experience and training. I was hoping for all of this from warframe but its so much more focused on being an RPG with flashy superpowers. Which is sad.

 

If you cant really picture ninjas using guns, because its not like traditional feudal japanese ninjas, check this out then:

 

http://youtu.be/n6bA1Vm0hNk?t=5m47s

 

These enemies in particular are a real *@##$ in that game because they can go anywhere and they have guns. I feel like thats how fun warframe would be if it was more focused on ninja elements to the game. Unfortunately mobility is a tiny optional part of warframe. And it gives no real benefit to combat as well.

[Kinsaeda]

I'm in agreement with the OP.  Especially being able to turn off the alarms and resume a stealth run.  I can't stand being spotted and racing to kill everything in the room like a mad man so the alarm doesn't go off, only to have some mook two rooms back trigger it who wasn't even around.  Lately I've entered missions and it seems the enemy knew I was coming ahead of time, because they all come at me guns blazing from the get go.  

 

Also, rip off Devil May Cry, please.  Or Ninja Gaidan Sigma Metal Gear Rising.  They were fun games, and had melee weapon variety that really mattered.

 

Edit: Good Ninja Gaiden video, we should be tac ninjas.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Kinsaeda

[Kagefumi]

We are Space Barbarians!

We ransack, destroy, kidnap, massacre the enemies right in front of their face.

[Maou]

ogris . . aka silence launcher

[EinRyu]

We are Space Barbarians!

We ransack, destroy, kidnap, massacre the enemies right in front of their face.

Oh my god, I love it, it's so true, we destory all crates, kill everything in our path, and loot all that we see! Perfect.

 

Using guns can still be very ninja like. but its all up to the efficiency of the user. It basically defines a good ninja and a bad ninja. Being a ninja and doing it impressively requires alot of dexterity, experience and training. I was hoping for all of this from warframe but its so much more focused on being an RPG with flashy superpowers. Which is sad.

 

If you cant really picture ninjas using guns, because its not like traditional feudal japanese ninjas, check this out then:

 

http://youtu.be/n6bA1Vm0hNk?t=5m47s

 

These enemies in particular are a real $#*(@ in that game because they can go anywhere and they have guns. I feel like thats how fun warframe would be if it was more focused on ninja elements to the game. Unfortunately mobility is a tiny optional part of warframe. And it gives no real benefit to combat as well.

I'm not exactly saying ninjas can't be ninjas because they have guns, I just feel theres just too much emphasis on a game that's main focus is supposed to make on agile, fast paced "Ninjaesque" combat. But when you give me a Gorgon which is practically a light machine gun, you bet yer &#! I'm gonna spray everything and just ignore being a ninja, and be more of a Rambo 2.0 Cyborg in a smexy space suit.

[EinRyu]

ogris . . aka silence launcher

I honestly wonder if the Devs knew that it was silenced on its release, or just didn't bother to care. It's seriously funny.

[NaniteCircuit]

Stealth is an entirely viable gameplay option. Just use silent weapons and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, use Enemy Radar. I've stealthed Corpus, Grineer, and Void (Capture) without a Sentinel using the Excalibur and Frost Prime frames. 
I offer these pieces of advice: Try to get Dread and Despair, and the Dual Ethers are invaluable against Grineer.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Vattira

[arch111]

I agree with much in this post. I have tried to stealth by hiding, sneaking and such.

Both the Grineer and Corpus are hard to backstab kill. Exept Mercury, they never die, wich of course leed to a question

of what weapon and what DMG is required for Stealth kill/

I have seen it done, but presumably that was high leveled Prime melee.

I allso hate that when you are spotted, no consoletapping , they just start pouring at you, Corpus mission.

ONE crewman saw me. Then it was over. 300 kills later in as usual i wonder where they are all hiding.

Melee, yes movement variety as fighting-styles fitting heavy, long or daggers, would be great.

a simple combosystem, possibly customisable using mods could do wonders.

Its easy really. Equip the speed, multiple target mod.

Do the sequnce E ae de hold E and the tenno do the attackpattern linked to the mod.

As for copying DMC, prince of persia, gears of war, deus ex, halo,

Mass Effect, i mean come on the it wont be the first time.

[Mak_Gohae]

We are Space Barbarians!

We ransack, destroy, kidnap, massacre the enemies right in front of their face.

 

We do exactly what the ninjas were hired to do. We spy, sabotage, assassinate, deceive, etc.

Ninjas were ancient special forces, special forces operate in secrecy but that doesnt mean they do one thing exactly the same all the time.  

Edited August 1, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[VScipii26]

We do exactly what the ninjas were hired to do. We spy, sabotage, assassinate, deceive, etc.

Ninjas were ancient special forces, special forces operate in secrecy but that doesnt mean they do one thing exactly the same all the time.  

So do the Green Beret, CIA, KGB, and religious extremists. So which are we?

This is why I loathe the "Ninjas play for free" tagline.

We are not ninjas. We are fully capable of stealth, we are fully capable of mass-murder, and we are fully capable of hardcore assassination. We're better called Tenno, because that's what we are. We're really our own thing.

That said, stealth (PROPER stealth, not one where if a single mother-@(*()$ shield osprey glaces in my general direction, it alerts the entire ship and the area is put into lockdown) needs to be implemented. I may dislike ninjas, but stealth can be fun. When I want to drop down and Dual Zoren decapitate a Leaper, that's what I'm going to do, but I current can't due the system in place. If I want to rush, I will rush. But if I want to stealth, it's probably not going to happen, even if I work for it.

All in all, you've managed to jam a huge portion of what DE needs to do in a single post.

[Idalgos]

We do exactly what the ninjas were hired to do. We spy, sabotage, assassinate, deceive, etc.

Ninjas were ancient special forces, special forces operate in secrecy but that doesnt mean they do one thing exactly the same all the time.  

I'm totally agree with that. Back in the days, ninja were using blades and chain sticks and if they were conducting operations today, I wouldn't be surprised about ninja using rocket launcher, APC, small helicopter and other modern staff. Guess being ninja isn't about stealth only, for me it's more like a philosophy of using weapons, items and surroundings to succeed in your mission.

 

The only problem that Tenno don't match with typical image of ninja brought to us by media. We more like modern elite special forses (SAS, NAVY Seals and so on), making lightning attacks on enemy position, whether it stealth or not, completing our objective and leaving scene before anyone could do someting.

 

And this game doesn't convince you to play in only one style. No one told me, that I am ninja, who must sneak into enemy fortress. Maybe I am maniac placed into cryostasis and awakened in times of great need?

 

Though I can agree, that stealth mechanics is broken for now and stealth gameplay should be as rewarding as kill-them-all playstyle.

 

P.S Sorry for my English, if my text is hard to read.

[Llyssa]

I don't get it?

 

I use currently a snipetron, an orthos, and, in theory, despair(I usually don't use that unless forced to by downed status).

 

My playstyle involves a lot of wall running and terrain climbing, mixed in with extensive orthos assaults, sweeping havok through the enemy ranks.

 

When something isn't dying fast enough to the orthos, it gets a point-blank snipetron to the face. A remarkably fast combo.

 

When starting a mission, I figure out where the consoles are in the current room, and snipetron anyone daring to go near it, as well as some in-general shooting. Once a room is clear, it stays that way, more or less, and we proceed. Next room, same deal--guard the console, move on.

 

Done right, you get few spawns, and the game is mainly about motion. If you *do* make a mistake, then I break out the acrobatics and flying steel... and when needed, use whatever powers my frame has.

So, from my perspective, the game is VERY ninja-esque. This makes me think the "un-ninja-like" part of the game is you.("when you give me a Gorgon which is practically a light machine gun, you bet yer &#! I'm gonna spray everything and just ignore being a ninja"?? SERIOUSLY???)

 

I will note that most players like to stand in the middle of a hallway or room and spray gunfire, despite all the bad effects this has... and the majority of players who don't do that just run away from everything. Neither particularly "ninja-esque", but neither being issues with the game code.

 

Which means the primary issue is "player X doesn't think like a ninja, and, thus, isn't a ninja in game." And the point of this thread is mainly people proclaiming, "Hello, I am player X".

 

I will note that leaving things alive is particularly bad, so once you've blown stealth, it's a bad idea, but maintaining it is pretty easy(particularly since only enemies with fingers can activate consoles... someone BSed up there about failing because of shield ospreys. el oh el.)