The Reason I Almost Never Play Warframe Anymore.

[Licter]

#1: This post is purely subjective.  All criticisms are from my preference and not meant to be representative of an "average" or "majority" viewpoint.

#2: This isn't a whine, or a QQ, it's a complaint and an expression of discontent.

 

When I began playing Warframe about three months ago, I very much enjoyed it.  It was challenging, but accessible.  I cajoled a friend into playing with me, and within a reasonable amount of time, we were able to struggle through pretty much any content in the game.  Tower 3 mission were grueling, but if we were careful and perseverant, we could succeed.

 

At this point, the two of us are facing massive struggle with middle-level content with only the two of us.  The massive amount of enemies precludes us leveling any warframes without an immunity buff.

 

Before I drew my friend in, I had soloed every mission until about halfway through Pluto.  I worked hard, and it was a rewarding challenge, but I was able to get it done.  Now, I struggle to solo Neptune without maxed equipment that is post-forma'd.

 

I understand that this is supposed to be a 'co-operative' game that is based around group play.  I love that notion.  What I don't love is the idea of depending on PUGs to get anything done.  Most often in a PUG, one or two people seem to be left too far behind and wind up losing ALL of the rewards for the mission because they didn't get to extraction before the two people that rush to the end.

 

So what would I like to see?  How about scaling?  <sarcasm>That's a novel and radical concept.</sarcasm>  Base some of the mission difficulty around the group size.  Almost every cooperative multiplayer game I've played has this.  As more people join the session, the enemies get a little harder and the loot gets a little better.  An obvious exception would be assasination missions to discourage low-balling bosses for easier drops.

[PsychedelicSnake]

inb4 "Learn to play noob" comments

[123Olympian]

Yeah, sometimes I just solo some bosses as they get to be 20 than 91.

[Tarudizer]

I wish they actually DIDN'T focus so much on co-op as they d, to be honest. I like it, don't get me wrong, but as I mainly play alone (I've never liked playing with strangers, and just being in the same clan doesn't make them anything but) I'd like solo play and co-op to be 50/50, two viable options in their own right.

[Anorigin]

tl;dr

[Romalic]

im not sure what your seeing, when I play with 1 of my friends we rarely see as many enemies as we do when there are 4 of us, you really notice this on a mobile defence mission, you get far fewer enemies with 2 people than you do with 4, or so it seems to us

 

and as to the rushers leaving 2 people behind, yes I couldn't agree more, but DE have said they are looking at possible solutions to this, possibly a tag for each player saying what their preferred play style is, rusher, explorer etc and then matching to the same play style people

Edited August 2, 2013 by Rovak

[Dasmir]

just pick solo-warframes : Nyx, vauban, loki, ash, etc---

[Llyssa]

The obvious answer is to actually talk to people that you meet, so they aren't strangers anymore. Problem solved.

[Angius]

I understand that this is supposed to be a 'co-operative' game that is based around group play.

Sentence fixed. And you got your answer.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Angius

[EirikAura]

I agree there does need to be better scaling on enemy numbers. I also don't want to be forced to play co-op with a PUG to get anywhere - I have my reasons for not liking having random strangers as teammates. The rushers are a big part of this but not all.

 

Let me have a viable solo option and I'll be happy.

[Licter]

Ok, new take on the topic then.  If this is a multiplayer cooperative game, then the group and chat systems are beyond horrible for current game expectations.  I've played MMOs before, some of them more group-oriented than others, but none more group-oriented than Warfarme.  In World of Warcraft, I could go out an solo some basic quests or daily quests.  In EVE, I could go out and do solo missions, hunt rats or mine by myself.  My point?  BOTH of those games have  a more robust and useful grouping and chat system, AND rely less on group play than Warframe now does.

 

My suggestion?  Make chat more interactive.  Allow customization of chat.  Window size, font size and colors, window transparency, window position, window fade (time delay and amount).  Also, include 'emote' type communication.  Better yet, make a simple system for creating custom chat presets.   The players could type in a sentence or two and assign a keyboard keybind; in mid mission, they could use one key to communicate "Need help!", "Hurry up!", "Wait for me, almost there!", or "WTF ur problm nuub?!?!?".

[EirikAura]

Sentence fixed. And you got your answer.

Why, then, is there a SOLO option? If there is the option it should be catered to. Get rid of that option and you'd get rid of a large percentage of your player base with it.

[neKroMancer]

Don't expect PUG play to be ideal. You play with the flow and do whatever your group do. If they're turtling, then turtling. If they rush, then rush. PUG isn't about you being special snowflake. Play with friend if you want things to be your way. Don't expect cooperation from total stranger.

Chat won't help you if they don't respond or respond in other languages that you don't understand. No matter what customization you do to the chat window.

[Evangelis_Uk]

The answer to that is simple really.Why not? Easy to implement and stands as a feature. Large percentage of an online mmo want to play solo ....mmkay.

[Angius]

Why, then, is there a SOLO option? If there is the option it should be catered to. Get rid of that option and you'd get rid of a large percentage of your player base with it.

IMHO solo option is just to:

1. Test your new weapon on - let's say - Terminus.

2. Play, when you have limited transfer (mobile internet), because solo mode won't use as much transfer.

3. For antisocial people, which doesn't have friends

[misoru2012]

Ok, new take on the topic then.  If this is a multiplayer cooperative game, then the group and chat systems are beyond horrible for current game expectations.  I've played MMOs before, some of them more group-oriented than others, but none more group-oriented than Warfarme.  In World of Warcraft, I could go out an solo some basic quests or daily quests.  In EVE, I could go out and do solo missions, hunt rats or mine by myself.  My point?  BOTH of those games have  a more robust and useful grouping and chat system, AND rely less on group play than Warframe now does.

 

My suggestion?  Make chat more interactive.  Allow customization of chat.  Window size, font size and colors, window transparency, window position, window fade (time delay and amount).  Also, include 'emote' type communication.  Better yet, make a simple system for creating custom chat presets.   The players could type in a sentence or two and assign a keyboard keybind; in mid mission, they could use one key to communicate "Need help!", "Hurry up!", "Wait for me, almost there!", or "WTF ur problm nuub?!?!?".

Sooo... Facebook?

[InFlames]

The obvious answer is to actually talk to people that you meet, so they aren't strangers anymore. Problem solved.

 

Problem not solved by far.

From the people that I talk to in-game if I get 2 out of each 10 that I play with to reply to me that's being ridiculously lucky.

People go online to get 2 guys to buff them and make the level for them and then leave same is for boss runs, usually there is one or two guys killing the boss while one is trying to hide from the baddies till the said boss is dead so they can go loot and go home.

[kamimegurine]

He is a bit wrong but yeah i want something that can take me down finaly, something that i can fail and FAIL A LOT!!! idk like mobs lv 150+ reaching lv 200 OMG lv 200 hoho now we are talking about

[Licter]

So just to be clear, I don't feel that all content everywhere should be available to solo play.  Getting a good group together, that can work well in coordination, is challenging even within a clan.  That effort should be rewarded with greater play challenges and rewards.  But the majority of gameplay, and thus items and rewards, should be available to solo or small groups.

[Rafarix]

Yes the game is a bit much for soloing unless your decked out pretty well, or using specific frames and weapons. One of the biggest issue is, there is no option in avoiding nightmare mode missions which I believe DE is looking into that right now. One thing I found out is if you have a shade it's more easier to just run by everything with a shade then go through the mission gunning enemies down if your going solo.

 

Off-topic: Ever try soloing say Hades as in run in room kill everything, but not allow any enemies to trigger the alarm. For some reason if you're taking it a bit slow such as looting rooms in between they still send in a security force at you even though the alarm is not triggered, and you have to take them out fast before they might set off the alarm, to avoid getting knee deep in enemies.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Rafarix

[Xylia]

So just to be clear, I don't feel that all content everywhere should be available to solo play.  Getting a good group together, that can work well in coordination, is challenging even within a clan.  That effort should be rewarded with greater play challenges and rewards.  But the majority of gameplay, and thus items and rewards, should be available to solo or small groups.

 

I don't think anybody is asking to solo Void 3 Defense or something stupid like that.

 

However, it'd be nice to get past Sedna solo.

 

I can barely handle it, if I take my best stuff and eat a revive or two and that's just an exterminate mission where I can go slow.

 

Before U9, I was about ready to start on Eris solo.

 

I'm not really liking some of the difficulty changes in U9 and I really wish they'd hurry up with the tweaks to early-to-midgame, especially Grineer.

 

Earth Missions should not be making you face Napalms every other room. Seriously, now....

[Licter]

IMHO solo option is just to:

1. Test your new weapon on - let's say - Terminus.

2. Play, when you have limited transfer (mobile internet), because solo mode won't use as much transfer.

3. For antisocial people, which doesn't have friends

I do appreciate your honest opinion.  I'm not be facetious, I welcome opinions even (or especially) when they don't match mine.

So IMHO,

1. Testing equipment is a great idea, and should come before you have to invest the resources to purchase it.  It shouldn't come after you've bought it, and then only in a limited arena.  Most people wouldn't buy a new car without test driving it, or a new big-screen television without looking at it in a store.

2.  There are plenty of conversations about dedicated servers for Warframe.  I'm in support of having them, it would make the game much more accessible and less frustrating to a larger player base.

3.  It reasonable to argue that if you are playing an online game, you are most likely somewhat unsociable (not to be confused with antisocial, which is a disorder on a whole other level).  Let's face it, if we were all social butterflies that love the noise and flash of a dance club, we would probably be spending more of our nights in said dance club.  Combine that with the absolute anonymity and lack of any accountability in behavior online, and your expectations for interaction in PUGs should be dismal at best.

[-Kittens-]

DE either needs to remove the solo button or seriously consider how the game scales.

 

The system in place is quite workable, I solo'd the entire game except for some open area late defenses.

 

However, the main issue is non-directed content. When Private and Solo modes are engaged, the mod drops should favor defensive mods by a large percentage for certain missions. The other twin caveat is that defensive mods should actually work. Right now, most don't. Steel fiber is a GIGANTIC time sink mod that literally levels out in the 2048-mods-to-complete-range, same for Vitality and Redirection.

 

Issue at hand is, unlike Fast Deflection, the benefit that Steel Fiber provides in no way shape or form worth the input cost, despite the stats the mod carries because of certain damage types. Handspring, another defensive mod, is also insanely expensive and does very little, which makes absolutely no sense considering there IS a literal backflip animation in the game. On top of that, now to get the most benefit of Handspring, you have to get ANOTHER mod.... from nightmare mode. That is the literal picture-in-the-dictionary definition of punishing cost combined with completely diminishing returns.

 

The other issue is certain mods only drop from certain factions, and this literally makes no sense, because many of these mods are generic usage mods. They don't provide any benefit against that specific faction and there's no reason to restrict them.

 

DE always wonders why people speed run, and yes some players are their game are quite simply self serving @$$holes who don't care about the game itself really or the community thereof, but the other side of that coin is that speedrunning is really the only viable defensive option in the game for many situations, and not all frames are properly defensively balanced to handle anything else.

Edited August 2, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Madotsuki]

This is also precisely the same reason I barely touch the game anymore. Prior to Update 9, I could solo any non-defense content in this game without having to use max formaed gear or max ranked mods. It was hard, it was challenging, but it was viable and it felt FAIR. Now with the level changes in Update 9, not only does the level changes completely imbalance the resource gain (come on, Control Modules being restricted to at least a level 30-40 planet?), but it also made solo-ing incredibly laborious and locks out a lot of the planets i could previously enjoy at my leisure, especially when enemies just get major buffs in terms of health, armor and damage on higher levels instead of adding anything new to the table.

Why couldn't DE have just implemented enemy level scaling based on player number? It's been said a lot that pre-U9 difficulty was perfectly balanced for solo-ing, which was why all the co-op players kept whining that the game was too easy. Many games with both solo and multiplayer options had such level scaling, examples being Diablo 3 and Borderlands 2. Why shouldn't Warframe have such a system? If they had just added this level scaling to pre-U9 difficulty, we wouldn't have any of these problems, solo-ers would still be happy with the difficulty and co-op players won't find the game a cakewalk.

[Xylia]

RE:-Kittens-:

 

Steel Fiber should be additive, not multiplicative. Or something.

 

On everybody but Rhino and Frost, it is a waste of time.

 

You could stick it on an Excalibur or Saryn, but on frames who REALLY need it like Ember, Nova, etc... it is a complete and utter waste of time becuase it is a fixed %.

 

It needs to have minimum values, maybe. Like at max rank it should be 110% -or- 50 whichever is higher. Putting it on an Ember right now gets you a whopping what, 21 armor? *sarcastic whistle* If we used my suggestion, you'd get 60 armor which is "meh" but at least better than 21.